Panorama - Learning Disability Hospital abuse

[BakeliteBelle]

I know it is on AIBU, but why no debate on here? Did anyone watch it?

I forced myself to watch it because one of the factors in abuse of people with learning disabilities is the fact that good people who care, stand by and do nothing because they can't bear to believe it is possible.

I cried watching it and feel so utterly distressed that as my DS reaches 18, I won't be able to care for him at home because he is too challenging, but I can't bear the thought of what might happen to him away from us...

Too, too distressing. I want those bastards to be done for torture and find out what it is to be hurt and bullied and stamped on themselves.

What the fuck are LA's funding learning disability hospitals for anyway? They were meant to have closed years ago - why on earth are private companies receiving funding to open new hospitals? It beggars belief.

I won't sleep tonight

Oh you didn't offend me unpa1d!
Hope you have a less exhausting day today.

I think often care providers don't seem to 'get' that -like anyone else- children and adults with learning disabilities need stability. I supported the same person [as part of a very small long standing team] for nearly 20 years. I [and the rest of the team] were seen as unusual and viewed with a certain amount of suspicion by the powers that be and other care teams.
We were an anomaly that they couldn't really understand or get rid of [person we supported and his family very happy with service] plus we were self sufficient and 'good value'. When person we supported died none of us stayed with the organisation as our type of 'care' was not going to be allowed to be replicated. I still feel bitter about how us as a team were treated. Loyalty and long service and supporting a person how they wanted to be supported meant bugger all.. ooh I could rant..
By the way I have a glass of wine every night!!

I agree with unpaid's evaluation of people with learning disabilities seen as commodities. The privatisation of care is at odds with love and compassion. Tories don't get that; they never have understood the passion and the utter reliance for survival many people have for the NHS (they would never have introduced it after all) and for public service.

What do the Tories think up as a solution to the lack of love in society? The Big Society. Has anyone worked out what the Big Society is and how it was meant to help? How the Big Society volunteers were going to be better than the huge army of volunteers already out there?

Charles Clarke was correct when he said on Question Time (in relation to the Tory's plans for the NHS) that what is really worrying is that there really is no plan, no grand scheme, no vision. You can apply that to care too. They seem to be visionless, apart from a ideological hatred of the public sector.

Whole scale privatisation is worrying. [Will watch question time on i-player. Too tired last night].

I remember the 1st time round when Thatcher started privatising everything she could interfere with. Remember the people striking; cleaners in particular as i had a BF at the time whose mum was one! I was only young then, teenage but I remember everyone up in arms about it.
I don't know much about american health care but I know it's medicare and medicaid and I think the medicaid is for those who cannot afford private care. Obviously it's reflected in the poorer standard of healthcare they get.
It's ok if you're rich with privatisation but hey when have Tories ever considered the less well off anyway?

incase anyone is interested BIlD have a proforma letter for people to send their MPs following the panarama programme, you can find it here:-

e-activist.com/ea-campaign/clientcampaign.do?ea.client.id=78&ea.campaign.id=10764

Sorry unpaid it was the Question Time before last (from Norwich)

Morning all.
A fairly recent update:
2 x nurses have been suspended by the NMC [Nursing and midwifery council] while investigations into abuse go on.
Kelvin Fore and Sookalingum Appoo.

Am relieved the nurses have been suspended. I could scarecly believe them as they stood by and watched that abuse going on. As a nurse myself I know it was just a matter of time before they were suspended from the register - am guessing they have been suspended from work anyway so haven't had contact with patients. Liklihood is that they will both be struck off unless they can give very convincing reasons for NOT intervening, although I am not sure what would justify their inaction.

It is a relief isn't it pretentious that they have been suspended.
I too found their inaction scary to watch.

Surely a good start would be to implement the code of practice that doctors should follow "First do no harm".
It should be a mantra.

Ex nurse here. Yes, agree it would be good to go by the "first do no harm" mantra. But you can't factor in for the kind of inhuman cruelty which must be part of those "Carers" basic nature. German soldiers were following orders in the concentration camps but then there accounts of many of them who really "enjoyed" the inhuman cruelty required for the job.

It seems to me that there was a power thing going on with these 'carers'. Literally stamping on people that they felt were inferior to them. I still hear Simone saying 'I'll get the police on you' and Wayne [?] laughing in her face.
Like I'm sure many people do - I still see Simon's confused face while he was being assaulted.
Were these inadequate cruel people attracted to the job because of the 'power' it gave them? I doubt they would understand 'first do know harm' code of practice.

No they were so bloody thick they wouldn't understand it but I'm sure would understand enough to know that if they broke that written rule that there would be severe penalties.
Hmm crimes of obedience (Punch) comes to mind...

I started to read Phillip Zimbardo a while ago now; he was some psychologist who (back in the 70's I think it was) got two groups of college students to role play a hyperthetical situation over a period of time.
One group were prison guards, the other prisoners. Now bearing in mind it was only pretend, the experiment had to be cancelled before the end date due to the cruelty of the 'prison guards'! I never finished the book cos it was fundamentally boring as hell but makes you think how easily someones mind can be turned into what you want it to be!

There have been many crimes committed in the name of duty and obedienceömany more than in the name of dissent.

-Snow, C(harles) P(ercy), 1st Baron
'Testimony of Four Peers', in Esquire, Dec.

Just found this one on Google, Wendi. Sums up what you said.

It has just dawned on me that we can all do our bit. The kids thats stare and mutter at us as we pass and bully in the playground and get away with it and i quote 'are the the predatory corrupt caregivers - the emotional and physical abusers of tomorrow'.
Every time we go out

But how can we stop them Small?
I generally wave and smile at kids who stare etc...they do get embarrassed, but I've had people (grown ups!) move away from us in MacDonalds etc. How do you deal with that in a positive manner? Or any manner for that matter?

Talking of American healthcare, my SIL just came back from a 6 week hol there, during which she had to visit a Dr twice. Once was a drop in and was relatively cheap and the other was a specific appt with Dr. Although she knew what was wrong (cellulitis) and told him, then just needed ABs, the two visits cost 950 USD!!! She has insurance but how sustainable could that sort of cost be? It obviously massively inflated as "insurance will cover it", or not if you can't afford it. THe biggest cause of bankruptcy in the USA is medical costs. Its like all the special equipment, from furniture to buggies to computer stuff costs more here because the companies/suppliers expect it to be bought by institutions and public services, they don't often allow lower costs for parents but why are they overcharging anyway? Sorry, irrelevant rant. And don't get me started on the sodding Labour govt, the ideology and utter waste I've witnessed.

Davros I understand what you are saying about the cost of special equipment etc. It should be looked into, as frustrating when companies have a monopoly and prices are kept high.
Just adds to the stress of disabled people and their families.

Not looked at any papers yet but older people and people with learning disabilities really hitting the news today - community care and disability hate crime.

What CAN we do?

I asked the headmistress of my son's school to allow a charity that has been helping us, by having a "bring a £1 and dress as you like" day at ds' mainstream primary school. The idea being, the charity come into school and do an hour's "awareness" talk. They get £280 for their input and school have to factor in ONE hour for the disability awareness lady. That was 6 weeks ago. I keep asking if they're going to do it and have never had a reply. I'm shocked.....it's a really good school but they could still use that input.

My sons ASD/OCD/Tourettes gets him noticed, unkindly, quite often. The kids at school are great when IN school but recently, on a trip to town, my ds ran excitedly over to 3 boys in his class who were out shopping......they ignored him, totally. DS had no idea what HE'D done wrong!!!!

It upset me more than him, I think but those "nice kids", and we live in a good area too, shunned him. And the school don't think they need a disablement awareness day (confused)

How upsetting for you and your son Wendihouse. I'm not sure how attitudes can be changed/ acceptance achieved. However I do feel that your idea of the charity coming into school is a good one. Children is where we need to 'start'. They are the future.
I am shocked the school has not responded. Have you put a request in writing or just asked the Head Teacher? Definitely ask in writing if you haven't already. Can be done in a 'following from our conversation'.. type way.
Good luck.

Just read that Winterbourne View will be shut down on Friday when the last of its residents have been moved on.

Moved on.....to WHAT exactly. It's not the building, it's the culture of abuse in car, that's the problem. And lack of regulation.

Well there's a question Wendihouse. What I read said the residents had been moved to 'safe' places.. but don't know whether another hospital or what..

Apparently Ministers due to publish a statement concerning Winterview this afternoon..