Been in tears, cornered by inclusion and teacher separately today and feel hopeless :(

[moosemama]

My morning started with ds's inclusion teacher calling to tell me that ds is basically not producing any work at school in literacy or maths and that in a maths test he did yesterday he wrote on the top that he was embarrassed to hand it in. When asked about it he said that he is hopeless at maths and does not deserve to be in the top set. This is my boy, who when asked what his favourite lesson was in infants, always said maths and was confident of his abilities in maths always sitting at the top of the top group with ease. In the test he completed 14 out of 20 questions and got 13 of them right.

His class teacher and inclusion teacher apparently discussed moving him down into the lower group to show him that he is not hopeless at maths and they wondered if being the top of the lower set might be be better for him than bottom of the top set. The thing is, until this year he was the top of the top set and he knows it, he has lost all confidence in his ability to do maths and a few weeks ago I actually asked him myself if he would feel happier in the other grou, which isn't so competitive, does the same work, but has things explained in more detail and more slowly. He became hysterical, sobbing that he'd been with his group since Reception year and didn't want to leave them and how he doesn't want to not see his maths teacher, as if he's not in his group he will never see him at all etc.

She also said that they are continuing to have problems with him not producing work in literacy, even on the Alphasmart. At most he produces a couple of sentences each lesson, even though he is highly capable.

There are other issues, eg his teacher insists he is being deliberately defiant and disrespectful and his inclusion teacher feels he is extremely unhappy and totally lacking in self-confidence with regards to school.

Then, I went to fetch him from school and his teacher asked to see me. We ended up in a classroom talking for about 40 minutes and going around in circles. She said he is currently performing at a low 3 so won't get a statement I told her that he was higher than a low 3 at the end of year two, which was now two years ago and that represents not 'no progress' but a clearl backwards slide. She tried to tell me that he is 'age appropriate' in his NC levels, 'so you won't get a statement' . I told her that NC levels are irrelevant, he is not making progress and is capable of much more and clearly his disability is preventing him accessing the curriculum effectively and I will fight the LEA if necessary, as you do not have to be 'behind' to require a statement - although he is in effect behind anyway, based on his capabilities.

Honestly, it was farcical and I ended up telling her that in my opinion, my son's mathematical ability and confidence have fallen through the floor during this academic year and it isn't a situation I am happy to let continue - if necessary, if the school refuse to provide him with the 1-1 support he needs I will de-register him and home-school.

I asked her what they are doing/going to do and she just gave me the old 'I have 30 other children to teach as well you know' line. So I asked her if she and the inclusion teacher don't know how to teach my child effectively in order for him to make good progress and have confidence in his abilities - who should I be asking? The answer 'I don't know - there isn't anyone'.

When I pointed out that he was fine up until year 2 and produced lots and lots of top notch work with no support whatsoever, she just said that the work is more challenging now. He has had testing done which shows that he is more than capable of high level achievement, yet he has been sliding backwards at an unbelievable rate.

So, I came home in tears, sobbed all over my Mum and now just feel hopeless. My son has not made any bloody progress for two whole years. They have watched him slide backwards, fail and lose confidence and done sod all about it, then turn around and say that there's nothing they can do about it and there's no-one else who can help either and that old chestnut 'he won't get a statement'.

Ironically, I was told by the inclusion teacher this morning that the new SENCO and head of the ASD Inclusion Teacher Team feel that they have got enough evidence to proceed to SA request and will be going over the evidence the school and I have got together this week, with a view to setting the wheels in motion asap.

I just want to take him out of that bloody place and home-school him. At the moment it seems like the only way he's going to get the 1-1 he needs to achieve his potential. When he works with me I am constantly amazed at his capabilities. If he can do it with me, then he can do it for them as well, but they seem incapable of motivating him. The thing is, despite all the problems he doesn't want to be home schooled, he wants to stay with his best friend and he has actually been making some good progress with his social skills and made a couple of new friends recently as well.

I thought we were starting to get somewhere with the school and they were actually starting to understand and work with us - obviously I was wrong.

AAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGG!!!!!

((((((((((((((((moosemama)))))))))))))))))))))).

Am very sorry to read what has happened to you and your DS today.

If I had £1 for every time I had read similar re NC levels and "won't get a statement", I'd be quite wealthy by now!. Infact I know of someone else whose been fed that very same line recently. I was also given that rubbish line by the Senco when my DS was in Y4.

RE your comment:-
"When I pointed out that he was fine up until year 2 and produced lots and lots of top notch work with no support whatsoever, she just said that the work is more challenging now"

I am unfortunately not all that surprised to read the above; this usually hapopens when childrens additional support needs are not being either met or addressed properly. They usually come a cropper when it comes to Junior school as the work becomes far more rigourous at that time. Its also a very different ballgame from Infants socially as well as educationally.

Ignore the naysayers and ensure that the Statement request is sent off to the LEA asap. "Setting the wheels in motion asap" does not give you any definate date to get this request moving; more delay will not help either you or your son.

The request to the LEA needs to be made asap then that wheel will start turning from the date the LEA receive the letter.

I would also longer term look for a hopefully more understanding school.

Dry your tears Moosemama and ask them when they are exactly going to make the request to the LEA. You need a firm date and a copy of the letter that they send. Infact if you are yourself in any position to do so I would make this request yourself now.

You after all are your child's best - and only - advocate.

Oh Moose :(

I don't know enough about statements to comment really but I can't believe that they feel that he is making adequate progress when he is going backwards. Really outrageous........

Am really really cross on your behalf

I'm so glad you recognise that your ds' class teacher doesn't know what she's talking about re eligibility for a statement. When we were at primary school stage with ds we were naive enough to accept that ds wasn't bad enough for a statement even though academic attainment is only one of the criteria.

It might be an idea to go on your local county council website and search for the statementing criteria. Whether or not you choose to show it to your ds' class teacher, it will be useful for you when proving your case that he should be assessed for a statement. Sorry if this is telling you stuff you already know.

Also don't feel pressured to wait around for the school's agreement to apply for an assessment of his sen. Got to reluctantly tackle bedtimes now but hope others will be along with advice.

Is he able to talk to you about the situation? Maybe he can give you some insight into how he feels about it all.

"'I have 30 other children to teach as well you know" I HATE this kind of comment. One of DS2's teachers said this.... twice.... within the first meeting we had with her after an incident at the school. I didn't react well. She doesn't ever say that to me anymore.

Sorry you're having to deal with this. DS2 isn't at that level yet, so I'm really not sure how to help. But hopefully someone else will be along soon with good advice!

So sorry, moose. I do wonder sometimes if my DS would get a statement if we applied today as he's just about age appropriate in literacy. But without the support he wouldn't be. He's very like your DS in that he needs constant prompting to produce anything.

Is his teacher the best person to be making these remarks? What knowledge does she have of SEN? There will be children in his year who achieve less on SATs levels and don't need a statement because they are sadly low ability. Your DS's needs are much more complex than academic ability alone. Don't let her put you off.

Thanks for the much needed hugs Attila, we are actually doing the SA request ourselves after fighting the school and inclusion team who wanted to do it themselves. The SENCo and Inclusion Team have been pulling together evidence from the school's side and initially we were told the old SENCo hadn't filed anything so there was no evidence. Fortunately, a new and very experienced SENCo started a few weeks ago and she has been able to find what we need. I have also pulled together a huge list of evidence from my own files and have little doubt that we have a good case. Actually the Head of the Inclusion Team is fantastic and is going to hold my hand through the process. She has already spent a good 3 hours at our house trawling through evidence with me and she only came for a half hour meeting!

Thanks everyone else for your support and sympathies, I really appreciate them all. I knew you would understand. Just feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall at the moment.

His teacher has admitted in the past that she doesn't know a lot about statementing. To be honest, it sounded awfully like she'd been coached in her responses today.

Dh is home now and also furious. We are going to sit and draft a letter to the school detailing every single issue and asking for a written response and explanation of how what they have done so far to address the issues and what they intend to do next. If they can't come up with anything else that they can do/try it will only add to my evidence that the school is unable to help him without a statement. Every single person I've spoken to, teachers, SENCo, Head, Inclusion Teacher, Lead Inclusion Teacher all agree that the only way he is going to make any progress, let alone reach his potential is with 1-1 support in the fundamental academic areas - at least literacy and maths, plus a great deal of pastoral, emotional and organisational support.

They basically told me today that they can't help him, but he won't get a statement - talk about giving up on a child! If they can't won't help him and are unable to find anyone who can and (in their eyes) he won't get a statement, what exactly does the LEA intend to do about it - write him off? Leave him without an education? Honestly its criminal.

oh moose So sorry

Its so like what I am going through with ds1 atm

I did deregister him and home school for most of last year - and loved it! -and it did wonders for ds1's confidence which had basically been destroyed by his old school.

I think HEd is so great for kids like them who need a "break" and to get excited about learning again....with ds1 I could tailor the work we did to his interests eg: dinosaurs, cars, maps etc We met some lovely people...maybe post on the HE board??? They are really great over there

Ds1 still thinks he "cant do it" and that he's "not good enough" but its getting better - slowly.

Thinking of you and your lovely ds x

Just sending a hug Moose, Head of the Inclusion Team sounds like she has a clue which is good and that will help massively x

yes, sounds like inclusion woman at least seems to have his best interests at heart, given current class teacher is so useless I'ld try and focus on getting the statement sorted and support next year. like attila says, it's better to apply yourself as then you know what's been done when!

It's so difficult, isn't it? I am very much in awe of those who can HE - I don't know if I have the discipline to do it. And I know it's a wonderful option for those who can handle it. But at the same time, I wonder if SN children are de-registered and HE'd, then who holds the schools and LEAs accountable? Who keeps them on their toes for the SN children that are still there, possibly still struggling? Is that what the aim is? The LEA wants parents to HE their children with SN so they don't have to deal with them? I often wonder, when I see the hard time they give parents when reading things on this board. It's demoralising, it really is.

Moose, I really hope things get sorted for you - I can't even begin to imagine how frustrated you must be at this.

triggles I totally get what you mean re:holding the schools and LEAs accountable, but you have to do whats right for your child at the time and my ds1 was showing signs of clinical depression

Flexi schooling (part time school part time HE) could be another option for you but it is down to the individual HT (no countrywide or even county wide rules on it!)

Absolutely agree about applying yourself for the SA. Also, could you get your GP on board? Went to see mine in Feb (like you, ds1 2 years behind and not really making progress), I broke down, told him my concerns and ds1 is seeing comm paed next week!

If the school arent on board/helpful/difficult can you just factor them out of the equation wrt applying for help for your ds???

(((hugs))) from me too. I don't have any wise advice like some of the pps, but I can feel your frustration at being let down by school :(

The problem is that he really, seriously, doesn't want to be home schooled. He adores his best friend and has a group of supportive peers who he plays with every day and its taken a long time for him to get to that point. He also, for the most part, loves his teachers and sobbed his heart out at the thought of not seeing his maths teacher every day if he had to change sets.

Part-timing wouldn't work, because all the lessons he does like are in the afternoons ICT, Design and Technology, Science etc, he would be even more resistant. I think if he only went in for maths and literacy we would end up with him school refusing again.

I usually work with him over the Summer holidays, not excessively, but we have a deal that both he and his brother have to do a minimum of 45 minutes a day, in return for a trip out or going to the park etc. I'm hoping we can get the school to work with us to identify what we could/should be working on over the summer this year to get him back to where he needs to be before he starts year 5.

We sat this evening and did some work on the Khan Academy together, exactly the sort of stuff he was struggling with in his maths lesson and he did it - no problems at all. Admittedly, it is on the net, so he gets to use my laptop, which is a huge motivator, but I'm thinking if we can build on his use of the computer to reinforce his maths then maybe he'll get some of his confidence back. He certainly seems to respond well to the Khan video tutorials. We also did some work around his 9 times table, as he couldn't answer 8 x 9 as part of a sum. He told me he doesn't know his 9 times tables, then proceeded to rattle them all off in double speed for me to write down.

I am expecting to hear from the Inclusion bod tomorrow and if all's well with the school's evidence we should be able to send of the SA request by the beginning of next week.

I feel totally drained now, I should have seen this coming, its been far too quiet at school pick up times this half-term. In fact I actually said to dh and the weekend that things seemed to be awfully quiet on the school front, so there must be something brewing.

oh Becaroooo - I wasn't criticising your decision!! I was simply frustrated that people have to leave the school system to be able to get their child the education that they deserve, which then seems to leave the schools free to continue ignoring the needs of the children with SNs. I don't blame anyone for HE'ing if needed - I am placing the blame on the LEAs and schools that are making that choice necessary, IYSWIM.

Thank you babyheave.

Becaroooo, the odd thing is that I think the Head is actually pretty supportive, its the teacher that's the stumbling block at the moment. Whenever I've been to see the Head, things have been actioned pretty quickly and he has been very reasonable and seen my/our point of view. I raised the statementing question with him at a meeting about something totally different back in April and he was in agreement that it was something we needed to be doing.

Part of me wants to just apply for the statement and write of the rest of this academic year - its only 6 weeks after half-term and most of the second half of the summer term is usually a waste of time anyway. I don't know who ds is going to have for a teacher next year though and am very nervous, as there are a couple I seriously don't want him to have. I'm dreading starting all over again with a new teacher in September, but at the same time hoping that we will get someone who sees ds as a child rather than just a problem in her classroom and a drain on her time and resources.

Hi, Can totally understand your distress and feel for you. My 8yr old son was diagnosed as gifted and talented 2yrs ago and is performing at or below avarage. His confidence and self-esteem is at an all time low and he constantly refuses to do any work at school, particularly numeracy and literacy. This is clearly due to the fact that his needs are not being met and the lack of undertsanding for children with ASD is horrifying. I am currently appealing the decison of the LEA to assess my child and have had all the usual nonesense 'hes making progress', 'at least he can read', 'he'll have to go into special school'. this is despite him scoring above the 95th percentile on ravens test.

My advice is to apply for parental request for SA, sample letter available on IPSEA website . this will get them all moving, from experience expect them to close ranks, they will get hostile and this is very intimidating. Through the tears and mini breaksdowns over the last 5yrs i would say the earlier you start the better, no-one will fight for your child, The empathy that schools have is fleeting. Keep records of everything and try to have written evidence for evrything, it will help you shoukd you need to appeal.

Unfortunately the most difficult job is rebuilding your childs self-esteem, which is what i'm discovering. i just want my happy little boy back!!!! can anyone help?

your comment on the 9 times table stuff has got me thinking - possibly wrongly - could he have difficulties understanding what's expected of him in terms of the instructions, if they aren't expressly clearly enough for him (some kids on the spectrum can take language very literally).

triggles Its ok!!!! I know what you meant and I agree... its wrong that so many parents of kids with SN/SEN end up with no other choice....I know I certainly felt it was my only option, although it worked out well for us.

moose I agree with zzzz I have had this chat with ds1...he is so bright - ok he struggles with reading and writing but that is due to his as yet undx issues (dyslexia/asd/apd) - and it has been great for him to hear our GP and his retained reflex therapist tell him how bright he is

As I was saying, he may just be finding it all VERY BORING (worksheets ad nauseum!...) and you could do work with him at home that
a) plays to his strengths
b) is tailored to his interests and
c) isnt BORING

Does he like computers/working on the PC??? If so, I would recommend using sites like bbc bitesize, mathletics, maths whizz etc....ds1 really liked them.

You can get lots of ideas from the HE boards too...you dont always need lots of rescources to teach!

gene

To get my happy confident son back I had to take him out of school and HE him for most of last year!

It worked really well for us and ds1 blossomed but its not a decision to take lightly.

zzzzz that's not dissimilar from what we already do with him. My maternal grandfather was the most intelligent and well read person I ever met, yet he practically never went to school. We have all his beautiful old encylopedia, nature and science books and I always knew as a child that I could ask him anything and he would know the answer. General feeling in the family is that he probably had aspergers and in fact was very like ds in personality as well. I have explained to ds all about how great grandad had to teach himself things, he didn't do very well at school, because the way they taught things didn't suit him and he was cleverer than the lot of them!

That's the only way I've been able to get him to do any additional work outside of school, although computer based stuff always goes down well, so he's happy to use Khan Academy, Timez Attack and Woodlands Junior stuff.

GeneEyuss, it is heartbreaking to see such a bright child slide into oblivion in the education system. I do think that the stuff they are doing doesn't engage him, same with the way its presented. When he watches the video tutorials online he gets all fired up about how interesting it is and wants to have a go himself. We have been told 'at least he has age appropriate levels' and 'he won't get into special school and even if he did the special schools we have wouldn't suit his needs. He doesn't fit in mainstream or ss and the only other option is home-schooling, which I feel also isn't right for him.

We are definitely doing the parental request for SA, if they don't come up with their evidence by Monday, I will just do it without. We already have a massive file of stuff and all his class and homework books since year 1 - the inclusion bod said she'd never seen so much evidence kept by a parent - and I have MN SN to thank for that.

Totalchaos, in this case I don't think it is a language/instruction problem, its pretty much down to self-esteem and panic in maths. A gentle nudge is all he needs to remind him he can do it easily, but for some reason the teacher says they can't give him a gentle nudge - 'because they have 30 other children to consider. They have a part time TA, but she is used soley for the one looked-after child, who doesn't have a statement, but as a looked after child takes priority over ds.

As far as I can tell, the school has so far not spent a penny of their SN budget on ds. The Emergency Ed Psych team didn't come out of their budget and the Inclusion Team are a free service. Rather suspiciously, the school has had an awful lot of improvement and building work done this year though and as the SEN budget isn't ringfenced ........ One of the improvements was a classroom with ramp access from the playground though - which will be needed next year, as there are now two children with walking frames in the school. I don't begrude the money if it has been spent on SEN, but I am still suspicious about where some of it went and I don't understand why they can continually tell me what a problem my child is to them then choose not to allocate some of their TA's time to supporting him.

Becaroooo, thanks for those website ideas, as I said earlier, ds eats up anything he can do on my laptop!

I will also have a look at the HE boards, I wouldn't have thought of doing that.

I couldn't calm down enough for us to draft the letter last night, so brain-dumped my thoughts into a word document for sorting with dh tonight. I did however spend the evening re-reading all about the statementing process, appeals, tribunals etc, found out a few things I didn't know and found some links that will be relevant and useful within my LEA so at least that was useful.

I am still shaking with anger and distress this morning and have the most god awful stomach pains. It feels like some horrible spinning fairground ride that I can't get off at the moment - I just want it all to stop.

moose I really would check out the HE boards...a lot of them have SEN/SN kids and their advice is, frankly, like manna from heaven

Tell them I said "hi"!!!!

I too am cross, on your behalf. The needs of your son have not been met and I would make sure that you get that SA in, double quick time. The boy is obviously suffering. It's a disgrace.

And that "we have 30 other kids" line. Indefensible.