Been in tears, cornered by inclusion and teacher separately today and feel hopeless :(

[moosemama]

My morning started with ds's inclusion teacher calling to tell me that ds is basically not producing any work at school in literacy or maths and that in a maths test he did yesterday he wrote on the top that he was embarrassed to hand it in. When asked about it he said that he is hopeless at maths and does not deserve to be in the top set. This is my boy, who when asked what his favourite lesson was in infants, always said maths and was confident of his abilities in maths always sitting at the top of the top group with ease. In the test he completed 14 out of 20 questions and got 13 of them right.

His class teacher and inclusion teacher apparently discussed moving him down into the lower group to show him that he is not hopeless at maths and they wondered if being the top of the lower set might be be better for him than bottom of the top set. The thing is, until this year he was the top of the top set and he knows it, he has lost all confidence in his ability to do maths and a few weeks ago I actually asked him myself if he would feel happier in the other grou, which isn't so competitive, does the same work, but has things explained in more detail and more slowly. He became hysterical, sobbing that he'd been with his group since Reception year and didn't want to leave them and how he doesn't want to not see his maths teacher, as if he's not in his group he will never see him at all etc.

She also said that they are continuing to have problems with him not producing work in literacy, even on the Alphasmart. At most he produces a couple of sentences each lesson, even though he is highly capable.

There are other issues, eg his teacher insists he is being deliberately defiant and disrespectful and his inclusion teacher feels he is extremely unhappy and totally lacking in self-confidence with regards to school.

Then, I went to fetch him from school and his teacher asked to see me. We ended up in a classroom talking for about 40 minutes and going around in circles. She said he is currently performing at a low 3 so won't get a statement I told her that he was higher than a low 3 at the end of year two, which was now two years ago and that represents not 'no progress' but a clearl backwards slide. She tried to tell me that he is 'age appropriate' in his NC levels, 'so you won't get a statement' . I told her that NC levels are irrelevant, he is not making progress and is capable of much more and clearly his disability is preventing him accessing the curriculum effectively and I will fight the LEA if necessary, as you do not have to be 'behind' to require a statement - although he is in effect behind anyway, based on his capabilities.

Honestly, it was farcical and I ended up telling her that in my opinion, my son's mathematical ability and confidence have fallen through the floor during this academic year and it isn't a situation I am happy to let continue - if necessary, if the school refuse to provide him with the 1-1 support he needs I will de-register him and home-school.

I asked her what they are doing/going to do and she just gave me the old 'I have 30 other children to teach as well you know' line. So I asked her if she and the inclusion teacher don't know how to teach my child effectively in order for him to make good progress and have confidence in his abilities - who should I be asking? The answer 'I don't know - there isn't anyone'.

When I pointed out that he was fine up until year 2 and produced lots and lots of top notch work with no support whatsoever, she just said that the work is more challenging now. He has had testing done which shows that he is more than capable of high level achievement, yet he has been sliding backwards at an unbelievable rate.

So, I came home in tears, sobbed all over my Mum and now just feel hopeless. My son has not made any bloody progress for two whole years. They have watched him slide backwards, fail and lose confidence and done sod all about it, then turn around and say that there's nothing they can do about it and there's no-one else who can help either and that old chestnut 'he won't get a statement'.

Ironically, I was told by the inclusion teacher this morning that the new SENCO and head of the ASD Inclusion Teacher Team feel that they have got enough evidence to proceed to SA request and will be going over the evidence the school and I have got together this week, with a view to setting the wheels in motion asap.

I just want to take him out of that bloody place and home-school him. At the moment it seems like the only way he's going to get the 1-1 he needs to achieve his potential. When he works with me I am constantly amazed at his capabilities. If he can do it with me, then he can do it for them as well, but they seem incapable of motivating him. The thing is, despite all the problems he doesn't want to be home schooled, he wants to stay with his best friend and he has actually been making some good progress with his social skills and made a couple of new friends recently as well.

I thought we were starting to get somewhere with the school and they were actually starting to understand and work with us - obviously I was wrong.

AAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGG!!!!!

AllieZ, you are preaching to the converted and frankly with my nerves the way they are at the moment I don't need to have the obvious stated to me.

Yes, my ds having a statement would mean I could hold the school legally responsible for providing a prescribed amount and method of support, however, not having a statement doesn't mean that he doesn't have rights to under SENCOP and the Disability Act for the school to make reasonable adjustments in order for him to access the curriculum, achieve and make progress. Therefore I do have grounds for asking what the school intend to do about the fact that my son has made absolutely no progress. Not to mention that even if my son didn't have SEN, if he was failing to achieve at school I would be asking them exactly the same question. They may not have been officially instructed to support him in a particular way, but they are legally responsible for supplying him with a good standard of education, just as they are any other child in their school. I could find plenty of quotes under Every Child Matters, SENCOP and the Disability Act to point out their repsonsibility towards him.

As I have said several times on this thread, the SA request is going in at the beginning of next week - I am making the request, not the school and the new SENCO, myself and the inclusion team all feel we have a strong case. If I had applied before, the request would definitely have been refused on lack of evidence, we would have had to go to appeal to get them to assess and would probably be back at this point anyway, only having been through a lot of unnecessary stress to get back to square one.

Its easy to say get a solicitor etc, but there's no legal aid available and these things cost more money than we could afford. If SA is refused or we end up not getting a statement my Mum has very kindly offered to put up the money to help us go to tribunal, but I can't keep asking for handouts.

Finally, I don't think its helpful to come on a thread and imply that its my fault that my ds doesn't have the support he needs at school because I haven't obtained a statement for him. As you said yourself, you are missing some of the info and history and it would take an awfully long time to explain in all in detail, not that I should have to explain or excuse myself to you or anyone else. Lord knows every single parent on here carries enough guilt and stress without having more heaped on them from what is supposed to be a supportive forum.

Its not your fault moose You are a fantastic advocate for your son and will continue to be so x

indigo Sorry, whats the ASD team and the SpLD????

Would the comm paed recommend OT, as we are doing RRT (which is a sort of OT)? Ds1 definately doesnt need SALT. What does an EP do?

Went to the AIT yesterday and she was great with him but he got pretty fed up towards the end so she will have to complete the hearing test on his first session. She is a SN teacher so was really understanding when he wanted to kneel on the chair (rather than sit) and got fidgety. She was shocked by how good his vocab was He was talking about his Wii and said :"I was chasing a very elusive whale" (he is 7) and talked to him about his likes and dislikes and what he thought was fun etc

Comm paed appt tomorrow....wont get much sleep tonight Feel really weepy and anxious.......

ASD team get called different things in different LAs. In ours they are the communication and interaction advisory teaching service. Basically they come to your child's school and advise them on how to best support a child with ASD or similar, they advise parents, they monitor IEPs, they observe DC and write reports for SA, they support transitions. In my LA they are lovely and it feels like they are on my DS's side. Even though they work for the LA they have helped me to challenge the school. Hopefully the equivalent in your LA is equally supportive. In some LAs you have to have a DX for them to get involved, but ours don't require that.

Educational Psychologists look at any SEN and advise on best methods to support. They have psychology qualifications and cover all SEN and are the people employed by the LA who carry the most weight. After my DS's statement I've not had any more dealings with them!

SpLD is specific learning disorder, dyslexia being one. Indigo will have more info on that.

Good luck for tomorrow. It will be fine, don't forget your written list of questions, too easy to forget something when it's a bit emotional.

Everything what EllenJane said :)

The paed won't care that you're doing RRT, or probably even heard of it. He will probably recommend OT to assess him, if that's standard in your area. Of course assessment does not mean the OT will provide any help for him.....

SpLD is basically the new term for dyslexia. They can observe and assess him at school and make recommendations for literacy programs the school can implement with him.

ASD team should be the most helpful of all of them. They provide advice to the school about how specifically to help your DS. In our LEA they work with schools even if the child doesn't yet have a dx - but in other LEAs they don't. But school should def be ringing them and involving them.

Again all the EP does is assess your DS and then recommend diff things for school to do with him. Their report can also state things like 'observed behaviour consistent with ASD', which the paed can then use to dx ASD.....

The person who knows exactly what support is available in your LEA is parent partnership. They are the people who told me about the ASD team and the SpLD team, then I told school to get them involved.... So ring parent partnership and find out exactly what support school should get. (In my LEA) they know way more then the SENCOs.......

Best of luck with the SA going in next week. Sounds like you have full support from the school, there.

I know that when we relocated, we had a Statement in place FOR THAT MOVE. It was one of the reasons they gave it, I think. However, when he started at his new mainstream, the school told LEA that they couldn't meet my ds's needs as set out in the statement, without further financial provision. Needless to say, it was given immediately or he'd have had no school to go to!

You're doing the best for him.

Thanks guys.

" a bit emotional" I am a wreck!!! Am going to do a list tonight of what concerns us wrt ds1 and what help we want for him at school.

I e-mailed a 4 page document about ds1 to the comm paeds secretary last week for him to read prior to our appt...whether he does or not.....??????

Becarooo Let us know how it goes with the paed tomorrow. I'm sure you'll just be 'a bit emotional!'

>indigo:Schools are obliged to teach and care for all of their students.

A statement is only required if the school can't meet a childs needs from within their own budget
Which is exactly the case there, i.e. the school does not have the budget to put ft 1:1 support in. Also may I point out that the situation mentioned by you was aimed at children with problems like a leg brace or a mild dyslexia, i.e. minor problems that schools can tackle easily. Also: schools do not have an obligation to provide education for anyone - the LA does. Which might mean moving schools, a different provision, even home tutoring. And finally with the budget cuts in education schools won't have the budget to put in anything even for kids with much lesser problems, so I would not count on getting anything extra without a statement.

>moosemama: Its easy to say get a solicitor etc, but there's no legal aid

available and these things cost more money than we could afford.
At the minute we have 4 cases going on (might be 5, DH would know better), not all education related, with no win no fee solicitor firms. Neither of the 2 firms we are using are big or well-known (one consists of one self-employed solicitor). If you research the matter, you will often find that new and upcoming firms or solicitors will take your case because it's good publicity for them even if it is lost (yes, solicitors can make positive marketing out of lost cases, believe it or not).

>moosemama: I don't think its helpful to come on a thread and imply that

its my fault (...) As you said yourself, you are missing some of the info
and history and it would take an awfully long time to explain in all in
detail, not that I should have to explain
I don't remember saying it was your fault, moosemama. I just said I was missing some of the info. Well, sorry, I came in in the middle of the film. You are saying that you don't want to tell the first part. That's ok as well. I'm sorry I asked.

Hi AllieZ. Moosemama gave you a potted version of the backstory here. 'Fri 20-May-11 21:31:57' earlier in the thread after your first post. As she explained in the thread title, she is feeling rather fragile at the moment and was after some hand holding and constructive advice. I think your rather blunt post may have been taken badly, but bear with us.

From the governments Statutory Inclusion Statement:

"Schools have a responsibility to provide a broad and balanced curriculum for all pupils. This statutory inclusion statement sets out three principles for developing an inclusive curriculum which provides all pupils with relevant and challenging learning.

Schools must:

• set suitable learning challenges
• respond to pupils? diverse learning needs
• overcome potential barriers to learning and assessment for individuals and groups of pupils."

AND

"Teachers must take account of these requirements and make provision, where necessary, to support individuals or groups of pupils to enable them to participate effectively in the curriculum and assessment activities."

AND

"Curriculum planning and assessment for pupils with special educational needs must take account of the type and extent of the difficulty experienced by the pupil. Teachers will encounter a wide range of pupils with special educational needs, some of whom will have disabilities. In many cases, the action necessary to respond to an individual?s requirements for curriculum access will be met through greater differentiation of tasks and materials, consistent with school-based intervention as set out in the SEN Code of Practice."

That's why I am holding the school and the teacher accountable and that's without even starting on the SENCOP or Disabilities Act.

The inclusion statements deals with all barriers to learning, be they mild, severe, physical or otherwise. The school - and teacher - must differentiate the curriculum, teaching style/method, tasks and if necessary equipment. My son's teacher has not done this. Yes, it is looking like he is now needs 1-2-1 support, but at the start of all this he didn't, he only needs it now, because the school/teachers have failed to differentiate and support properly him over the past two years. If appropriate intervention/support had been put in place last year, he would still have confidence in his ablities and would actually be producing some work and achieving. Just as, if they had dealt with the bullies that have regularly beaten him up and repeatedly told him he is stupid, he would have a whole helluva lot more faith in himself and not be a shadow of his former self. The teacher and the school are required to do these things by the government and Qualifications and Curriculum Authority - they are not optional. They have to adhere to statutory standards, otherwise there would be little point in anyone sending their child to school, as the teacher could choose not to bother teaching them should they so wish.

A statement is hopefully in the pipeline, the bullying issue is being dealt with via the Governors - I do nothing by fight my son's corner and surprisingly, I do actually understand how hard it is for his teachers, I do understand that they aren't properly funded or supported themselves and I wouldn't do their job for all the money in the world - but my first duty is to my son.

I have another ds at the same school, who was well supported on SA for a year, through a very tough time when he was extremely ill, regressed and lost all his skills. I couldn't have asked for more from them, they were brilliant and he forged ahead and exceeded all expectations. He is now a comfortable, average student who loves school and I have no concerns about him or his education whatsoever. I don't hate the school, or the teachers, but I do believe the system, as well as them not adhering to their basic statutory requirements as an educational institution means that they have failed my eldest son.

Thank you for letting me know about the no win no fee solicitors, I was unaware that they would take on education related cases.

Please excuse typos, I am ridiculously tired.

moose I think any "no win no fee solicitor" would take on your case, However, I am not sure whether your ds would qualigy for Legal Aid...I think you have to be over 16 for that??? Worth checking up on though as if the case has to be in your name perhaps you could qualify????

xxx

My thinking though is, surely - if we ever did decide to go the legal route - it would be better to use someone that specialises in education, rather than a general no-win no-fee solicitor.

I'm willing to accept I may be wrong on this, but to my mind, its the like the difference between hiring a jack-of-all-trades/handiman or a fully qualified plumber to re-fit your bathroom, iyswim.

We definitely don't qualify for legal-aid and he's not old enough for a case to be in his name.

Not that I am looking to bring a legal case at this point, if I can't get things sorted by working with the existing team, I will go to mediation in the first instance, as there is a specialist mediation service for SEN in my area, which is free and can be accessed at any level of the SEN process/system.

Please excuse me if I'm not talking sense - have fried my brain this afternoon trying out different online maths stuff for ds - honestly, its embarassing how bad I was at some of it.

Still haven't decided which one to go with either - he's already doing Khan Academy and I think we've ruled out Carole Vordeman (although he did enjoy having a play on it), Mathletics seems overly competitive bearing in mind his self-esteem issues, so its looking like Maths Whizz is the front runner - but I need to run it past dh first.

Now, if I could just find something online to help with his literacy ........

No help with online literacy, I'm afraid. There's an interesting thread all about special educational lawyers and advocates here Just glad to see you more like your normal self, moose. Monday too early in the week for ?

Thanks Ellen, I've had a look at that thread.

I'm a lot calmer about things now, but I wasn't really 'not myself' - well perhaps with the exception of a couple of gin and tonics one night. I don't think I did 'read' things wrong and stand by my reaction/s.

Oh, yes, wasn't implying otherwise! Quite right with your reactions. No, I meant you seem a bit more cheerful after an upsetting week for you and your DS and it's nice to see you around on a few threads. You've been rather quiet last few weeks, been poorly? You see, I've been missing you stalking me.

Thanks - just didn't want you thinking I had finally lost the plot!

Yes, I have been poorly. I've been going through a tough time with my ME and had some frightening 'episodes' a bit like TIAs, but finally seem to be improving. Am certainly recovering faster after doing things and using up my energy stores than I have been for a while. I've even done some housework today!

I've missed you stalking me too!

Nah, I'm sure it's the other way round.

Maybe we are both just going round in circles!

You lead the way and I'll follow! Honk.

Honk!

No win no fee is only where you are looking to recover compensation - they take their fee from the winnings / costs recovered. In SEN cases there is rarely (except in negligence cases which are hard to win due to Judges imposing all kinds of public policy excuses) any pot of money to win.

You cannot recover any legal costs from the Tribunal unless there has been unreasonable behaviour by a party eg very late offers / evidence etc

You can get legal aid if the parent qualifies for initial advice up to tribunal but not for representation at tribunal.

You can get legal aid for a child of any age for judicial review

Most SEN lawyers charge £10k per tribunal. Advocates will do it for about £1500 (or less if you do some of the work yourself)

No win no fee is very rare in the education sphere.

Thanks Agnes, that's pretty much what I thought.

Have to admit the costs for going to tribunal scare the pants off me - especially as I've stuck my jaw out and stood up to anyone who states we won't get SA let alone a statement and said "we will - I will make sure we will, I will fight for my son and I'm not scared of going to Tribunal if necessary" (all said whilst my knees are audibly knocking together).

That said, it does tend to shut them up and make them take a step back. Am secretly praying we won't need to go to tribunal though and will definitely go for mediation in the first instance to try and avoid it.

Moose have you been to the doctors yet

Ds1 used maths whizz and enjoyed it.
Have you looked at the bbc education website for literacy resources....try the HE boards...they know all the resources!!!