Ds1(7) , AS, has no school friends. He is "THE naughty boy".

[Oblomov]

Ds1(7) crying in my bedromm this morning. Doesn't want tio go to school and has no freinds, apparently. First time he has said this.
suspected very mild AS. Tell me that his closest friend has been nasty to him again. Calling him an idiot and laughing at him with other boys. He has always liked this boy more than he likes ds. Not the first time we've had nastiness.
I can't say I want ds to like this boy as much as he does. I want him to have self worth to realise he deserves a better friend. But he is only 7. Plus I can't even think of/ don't even know any of the other boys well enough to know who I would prefer him to be friends with.

The second boy has bullied ds. But ds really likes him. teacher says its a love-hate relationship.

I think ds is just desperate for a close friend. and does not have one.

the friendship weeks, have no resulted in a close relationship. He plays with lots of the girls, often.

3 boys bullied him at start of term.

He was stigmatised as a naughty boy by the teacher and lost alot of minues, and I was not told about this. was cross with school.

We met a boy of his class in sainsburys yesterday. I only knew him by name. he said to him mum " thats Joe bloggs. He's the naughty boy". and she , all embarrased said, "don't say that, you can be a naughty at home". he said " no, hes' not just A naughty boy, he's THE naughty boy." " He always shouts out in class" (shouts out the answer, instead of waiting for his turn to be asked)

I went home. realised that the repercussions of how badly his teacher had handled the situation, at the beggining of term, had been worse than I thought.
Told dh. He said I was complately over-reacting.

Am I ?

I am so VERY VERY sorry about my last post. Sorry to be so melodramatic.
I had had 3 glasses of wine and couldn't stop sobbing.
I am due to go to diabetic pump clinic this thursday and will finally get my new pump. my diabetes has been truely awful and that makes everyhting so very much harder.

It started with the ss thread. I do mself no favour by going on them. oh god, it brings it all back. and I can't seem to cope with the injustice of it. Dh and my mum tell me to let it go. But I seem unable to. whats wrong with me.

I worry about telling anyone anything now. And all the time, I try and be objective and try and work out how I must present myself and how I came to be so wronged. But I have no answers and neither do anyone i speak to either.

Good news. I have hired a cleaner. I have been to 3 parties with dh recently and had the fabbest time. This weekend I ws partying with Frankie Dettori, man he is mad !!

I took all your advice and wrote an 9 page letter to the school. Well it was actually only 1.25 pages. But I attached a diary of everyhting that had ever happened and all the awful things they have done and said. I quoed you all, mentioning SENCOP etc.

I get a response. Headteacher has made an appointment to see us. In 7 weeks. well now its about 3 weeks time. But 7 weeks from when she received the letter , before Easter.
7 weeks. clearly high ont he priority list, then !

I think it was that that did it to me. the sobbing. 7 weeks. Realising that I can not win them over. we can not 'sing from the same hymn sheet'.
I detailed all the things I wanted:
EP to assess him, a buddy, to be praised more to peers to dispel the naughty boy image, etc etc etc.

What have I got. So far, nitsch, ziltch, nada.

Isn't fighting draining ?

Yes it bloody well is. If you can't get them on side is changing schools an option? Sorry, haven't re-read all the thread, perhaps I should. You've started the process off, now. Sometimes that seems like the hardest bit. The Head has put you off until after SATS, I reckon. Cheeky bint. When does you DS start back? Some of your suggestions could easily be put in place straight away.

EllenJane, changing schools has been suggested to me on this thread and previous. But it seems like such a flippant suggestion when I consider it a really big step. Plus the other school choices are not that fab.
But the main reason I ponder, is not just that this school is fab, one of the top schools in surrey, but also every person I meet, Outreach, school Link, every Sn related person I meet, says oh good school. I.e good for Sn aswell. And all the other mums I speak to with Sn children there, say how fab they are. So I just don't get it. Where am I going wrong.
These are children who are clearly sn, many with statements, and parents say SENCO is fab. Not to me shes' not. she is insistant that there are no problems. As if I'm imagining everything. As if I've got munchausens, and am pretending theres something wrong with my son, just to get my own attention.

Everyone I speak to can't understand how such a supposedly good Sn school, are treating me like this. I am unable to work out their thinking.

Oblomov - you are doing nothing wrong.

and neither are the other parents, probably.

not every school will suit every child. what works for one child (in terms of adjustments made at MS school) may very well not work for another, or even have a knoc-on detrimental effect. it may well be that everyone else you are talking to is happy - but, if the situation is not suiting you or your ds, then you do not have to accept it just because everyone else is (either because they are happy with it, or because they feel they should be)

we fought for a couple of years, and took the LA ot tribunal, to make sure dd1 did NOT go to a school (well, pre-school first, then on to school) that several other families were fighting to get INTO. it is highly regarded, well thought of - classed as gold standard ASD provision. but it was no good for dd1, yet the LA still tried to shoehorn her in, and tried ot guilt us into thinking we shoudl be grateful for being offered (well, nearly forced into, tbh) it.

people (especially SENCO/LA/Education officers/Autism Outreach) WILL tell you that everyone else is happy, implicaiton being that you shoudl be grateful for ebing offered these services (ie a place at this school).

BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT THIS IF WHATEVER IS BEING OFFERED (OR IN YOUR CASE NOT OFFERED) IS NOT WORKING FOR YOU/YOUR DS.

the whole point of SN education - whether in MS, in a unit, in a SN school - is that it shoudl be tailored to the individual child. no shoving in boxes, no blanket provision. the school shoudl be looking at your ds (with or without dx), and trying their very hardest to help him - in whatever reasonable way is possible.

if they are not doign this, they are not, imo, a "good school" - a good school offers as suitable education to ALL of its pupils, not just the ones that fall into line.

Changing school is not a flippant suggestion. We all know how hard and risky it is.

But look at your alternatives? You have a SENCO and a HT who you aren't working with you. There appears no way for you to be able to change this.

Things won't get better while you are at this school. They may be better or worse at another school. It is a big and risky decision. But so is staying where you are.........

Sorry, Oblomov, I have re-read the thread now, but when you say,

"I think it was that that did it to me. the sobbing. 7 weeks. Realising that I can not win them over. we can not 'sing from the same hymn sheet'."

then changing schools doesn't really sound like such a bad option, does it?

As Indigo and silverfrog say, it may be a good school for SEN, but it's not good for your DSs SEN. Maybe they have some DC whose needs are more severe than your DS, so, to them, he's not a priority. But to you he is your main priority. If they can't or won't meet his needs for whatever reason, you may need to change their minds, find somewhere that can or put up with it. You don't strike me as the kind of person to just put up with it!

Head just called. We have re-arranged for next tuesday.
She still maintains that they "see no problems in school".
I don't know what to say.

I said it my letter that her insistance that there were no problem , over-riding the doctors who suggest he might have ASD, is ..... (staggering).
I don't know how to address this.
" although no diagnosis, he needs to be treatred like an As child " = Pyschologist.
"complex. traits of ASD" = CAMHS Dr.

But no. Head and senco know better.
I have nigh of said this to her. Thats its not her perogative. Who the hell does she think she is ? she knows betetr than the dr', right ? Her professional arrogance is outstanding.
(I am thinking these thoughts , in my head, have not actually said them to her, but am frightened that at the meeting, I will blurt it out to her) !!

Oblomov

What is to stop you saying what you are thinking? I did it just before Easter. In a meeting I said exactly that!

It was verbal diarrhea that went something like this: the school sent him for an assessment, the school got the assessment, the shool then only choses to do the parts that she wanted to out of the assessment, does the teacher think that she knows better than the OT? DS prescribed glasses by consultant behavioural optometrist, his teacher threatens to not let him wear them if he continues to fiddle with them, does she think that she knows better than the consultant?! etc etc etc.......

It does appear to have had the desired effect so far for me.

I have to say though that your school seems to be even more difficult than mine. Has your DS been discussed at the in school review where the ed pysch will be attending? They are going to take all of DS's paperwork into that to discuss with the EP. I have to say that to give you an appointment 7 weeks in advance is outrageous.

Has your DS been discussed at the in school review where the ed pysch will be attending? They are going to take all of DS's paperwork into that to discuss with the EP.
I'm sorry, I don't know what uou mena, I have no Ep coming. they refused. I have no SA, no IEP, no Social stories. No nothjing.
The senco asked to phone CAMHS dr. I stupidly agreed. Then SENCO phoned her and asked for CAMHD dr to arrange for somoen to come in and assess ds in school. So instead of getting a costly EP in, she got camhs to do her dirty work. oh well atleast he is being assessed in school.
I phoned camhs to day. Only I am to attend the disco assessemnt for him, next week. when are they actually going to assess him then ?

not entirely surely how disco works in terms of your boy being seen, but disco is a v respected tool for ASD assessment, it sounds positive that CAMHS intend to do this, info here from NAS site on disco - www.autism.org.uk/en-gb/our-services/diagnosing-complex-needs/the-diagnostic-interview-for-social-and-communication-disorders-disco/why-use-the-disco.aspx

I don't meant to sound dense, but what scares you so much about changing school, given the school don't seem to be taking his needs very seriously from what you have said. I know this isn't quite the same, but when my kid with SN had a rocky path settling into nursery, I was loathe to move him, as I thought I would have the same problems getting used to a new place, but when he did move to another nursery he settled in surprisingly easily, sometimes you end up blaming the child when the attitude of the setting makes things a lot worse.

Sorry Oblomov

Should have said that we also have no IEP, 1:1, buddy or extra help for DS at school. DS has been DXed with dyspraxia and sensory processing disorder (which I had to go private to get DXed) and I am off to the Paed in 2 weeks to discuss ASD possibility. He has no friends and no-one to play with in the playground so similar to your DS except thankfully he isn't being bullied (yet). He is the "naughty boy" and the teacher has said that this is why the children won't play with him. DS is on School action plus but this is only really because the school referred him to the CDC.

They haven't done anything to help him really but due to my meetings where I threatened to move schools, they agreed to discuss his issues at the In School Review. If the SENCO has referred to CAMHS then as far as I am aware, your DS should also be SA+ as this merely shows that he is getting extra help ie CAMHS have been referred to.

The DISCO does look like a very thorough assessment for ASD but I have no idea on assessment yet.

Missed off the last bit. appreciate that it is long.

I tell Mrs that I want him put on a School Action, IEP and that I intend to get him statemented. I ask her to arrange to get him assessed.

I tell her that last week, JG and EC (j?s supposed best friend) teased Jack ?Idiot boy, idiot boy, you are an idiot boy?.
I say that having spoken to Miss B on Friday, Miss B insists that the chat she had with the class, last week, has resolved this issue but I feel that it has not been dealt with sufficiently. I tell Mrs S that I have spoken to RM from Outreach, and that she agrees and suggested that a position of responsibility is given to Jack to encourage his peers to see him in favourable light. Ros suggested more praise and encouragement is given to Jack. Mrs S insists that plenty of praise is already given, but I say that it is clearly not sufficient to alter the label that the children have of J.
I also say that ?Partnership with Parents? have suggested that a closer monitoring of Jack?s playground activities take place and is reported back to us. Infact that ?PwP? feel that a number of issues need to be addressed and that they have suggested that I request a meeting, which they are happy to attend and support me.
I say I have talked to Miss B about J academically and say that he is struggling more than they realise. I talk about the comprehension issues and how this is classic AS. Mrs S says she intends to phone Dr K from CAMHs and will phone me on Friday.

I may phone PwP, and ask for assistance in finding another school. am not sure how to go about finding a suitable school.

so clearly you have poured not only your heart out but given a detailed chronology of events and school don't exactly seem to have rushed to respond to you, how gutting. Did the school ever speak to CAMHS as promised, out of interest?

tbh I would think about getting that post with the letter deleted, as there's so much detail that could possibly out you if anyone in RL were looking on here.

re:schools. I would go for a mixture - see what PwP suggest, ask around locally, ask local NAS support group, and see if CAMHS can give you any hints. And then if/when you speak to schools, give a full account of your DS's difficulties, ask them what support they would give him, about discipline policies etc.

Oblomov, what a nightmare.

Just to repeat TotalChaos, you have accidentally put your DS's and DH's first names in the post and one of the teacher's surnames. I'd get it deleted as it may identify you too clearly.

Good luck with the fight.

Update. Dh and I went to meeting with Head and Senco, last night.
Senco started saying, that they didn't feel like he fited the profile (???), as if trying to insinuate, that CAMHS were trying to shove him into a box, which he didn't fit into.
At one point, dh laughed and asked if they thought we were mad, and I then laughed, and asked if they thought I had munchausens and was just attention seeking, and making it all up !!

In the end they suggested thta they would write to the LEA, and request an assessment. Senco then explained that this is basically the start of the statementing process. LEA must respond within 6 weeks.
So atleast thats something.

BUT, then PwP phoned me, this morning (.She was just ringing for an update), so I told her what had happened.
She seemed highly unimpressed. And said that the LEA would most certainly reject it. Because the school has done little that it would expect to atleast try and deal with the issue. SA, IEP, etc etc, to see if these things could make a difference. None of these things done.
Pwp is basically saying thta if the school haven't done anything of these things, then they will get 'laughed out of court' by the LEA.
BUT Pwp, say atleast the LEA will provide a list to the school with what they expect them to do, when they reject it, so we will atleast have thta to go on.

But do I wait that long? I mean if they have 6 weeks, that takes me intot he next academic year. Year 3. I have the opportunity to have another meeting, with Head, senco, teacher, school link worker and PwP, arranged for mid may. Maybe I should get Pwp to try and persuade school to start implementing some of these things now. Or maybe I shouldn't bother. Not sure what to do for the best.

right.

first thigns first:

write to the schoool (by email, if you want) immediately, and confirm that they are recommending you apply for Statutory Assessment for your ds. confirm in particular that the Sneco and Head both think this is a good idea, as they do not know how to deal with your ds. That they have tried to deal with it in school, but now think that outside help will be required (whether they said this or not - write it to them to "confirm" it. you may want ot word it better (sorry - chronic toothache!). they then have 2 choices: deny they said it - in which case your case for SA is that the school does not have clue as to what to do, and they are clearly not meeting your ds' needs, or confirm it (even if this is by absence of denial!), which can only strengthen your SA case)

Secondly, and this is important: APPLY FOR THE SA YOURSELF. DO NOT LET SCHOOL DO IT, ESPECIALLY IF PWP THINK IT WILL GET REJECTED. YOU HAVE MORE RIGHTS OF APPEAL AS A PARENT THAN THE SCHOOL DOES. (sorry for shouting, but it is important). See IPSEA, or SOS!SEN websites for how to go about doing this. also past threads on here.

in a away, PwP are rigth: LEA will try to wriggle out of SA by saying that School Action/Action Plus have not been gone through, but these things are not strictly necessary for SA to take place - it should take place on basis of need alone. but you will have to make your case carefully.

start documenting what is wrong with the school - dyas where your ds is unsupported; times you have had meetings; what they have said wrt your ds and his needs; how they have ignored common sense ideas on how to meet those needs; etc. start putting everyhting in writing with the school - every little thing. write to "clarify" what happened in school if your ds comes home with tales of somehting going wrong. write to "confirm" what action took place/didn't take place - you need a paper trail.

document all the suggesitons you have made, via the paed etc, which the school have ignored.

you may need ot think long and hard about the school though (I know we have touched on this on this thread before) - to make it through SA you need the school onside, and backing oyu up, on the whole. it is too easy otherwise, for the school to derail the whole process, and suddenly say "oh, we could try an IEP" or similar, when you have been banging your head against the wall for months trying for that with no success... the LEA are always going to loook for the cheapest way of getting somethign doen - therefore if the school claim they can deal with your ds "inhouse" (which they clearly are not doing, nor seem to have any intention of doing) then that is what the LEA will go for.

Thank you Silverfrog.
Am At work, so am at lunch, but may have to run.
I of course hear what you are saying, re applying for statement myself. I have read this on MN before and know this. But forgot.
Am surprised Pwp did not say that aswell.
Will start prepping a letter.

PwP are not always as impartial as they should or could be, sadly.

do ask for help - maybe start a new thread - if you need it. there are some real statemeting experts out htere, who have run the whole gauntlet form SA rejection, through appeals to proper quantified statement being issued.

Oblomov

Sounds like my ds1 at his old school!

I did several things;
HE for a few months (worked for us)
He moved schools (porbably not poss for you, I know) but also
Went to my GP, explained the situation and ds1 now has an appt with the comm paed on 23rd....you absolutely DO NOT have to wait for the school to "agree" with you wrt your ds.

I am horrified at how the teacher has handled this, but sadly not surprised

........Oh, and since ds1 has been referred by the GP and got this appt, his new school have put him on school action and he has an IEP.

Now, personally, I dont think IEP's are worth the paper they are written on HOWEVER, its a step on the road to getting ds1 the help he needs.

You can use the 'confusion' about your DS to help you get a statutory assessment. You can suggest that he is a 'puzzle' (hate that phrase but anyway) and that only a detailed and careful assessment of his needs in and out of school can ascertain his needs and how these can be met. Its also not unusual for children to keep a lot bottled up at school and then let it all out when they get home - I am not saying this is what is happening here but if the school say we don't say it then you could argue it various ways 1. they don't see it because they are out of their depth 2. he is such a complex case and an assessment is needed to unravel what is going on 3. you DO see it at home and so do professionals who see him out of school so just because school do not see issues does not mean issues are not occurring out of school.

Saying the professionals disagree can be a lever to say stat assess is necessary. It won't necessarily get you over the hurdle of getting a statement - the LA will say the school should do more at action plus - but it will mean you get an EP report and proper recommendations as part of the statutory assessment.

Def do the request for stat assessment yourself though. Keep control. The school will be asked to provide evidence and so will you.

oops should say don't see it not say it!

Thank you for your responses, especially Becaroo and Agnes.
Of course what you all say is corretc,I KNOW this

I have his CAMHS DiSCO assessment tomorrow.
I am working on my e-mail to the school, and my Stat Assess letter, already.
Will really go for it when I finish work for the week, at lunchtime today.