Ds1(7) , AS, has no school friends. He is "THE naughty boy".

[Oblomov]

Ds1(7) crying in my bedromm this morning. Doesn't want tio go to school and has no freinds, apparently. First time he has said this.
suspected very mild AS. Tell me that his closest friend has been nasty to him again. Calling him an idiot and laughing at him with other boys. He has always liked this boy more than he likes ds. Not the first time we've had nastiness.
I can't say I want ds to like this boy as much as he does. I want him to have self worth to realise he deserves a better friend. But he is only 7. Plus I can't even think of/ don't even know any of the other boys well enough to know who I would prefer him to be friends with.

The second boy has bullied ds. But ds really likes him. teacher says its a love-hate relationship.

I think ds is just desperate for a close friend. and does not have one.

the friendship weeks, have no resulted in a close relationship. He plays with lots of the girls, often.

3 boys bullied him at start of term.

He was stigmatised as a naughty boy by the teacher and lost alot of minues, and I was not told about this. was cross with school.

We met a boy of his class in sainsburys yesterday. I only knew him by name. he said to him mum " thats Joe bloggs. He's the naughty boy". and she , all embarrased said, "don't say that, you can be a naughty at home". he said " no, hes' not just A naughty boy, he's THE naughty boy." " He always shouts out in class" (shouts out the answer, instead of waiting for his turn to be asked)

I went home. realised that the repercussions of how badly his teacher had handled the situation, at the beggining of term, had been worse than I thought.
Told dh. He said I was complately over-reacting.

Am I ?

I have found a document,doc but it states thta the inclusion team deal with children who have been excluded, after the 6th day.
So, is it really them I need to contact. Won't they just tell me to go back to the school link worker ( who hasn't done THAT much for me so far, and seems a bit too chummy with the school senco, for my liking !!. I am just a bit worried, because i don't know who to trust.)

I'm not getting p'd off with you at all. I've been where you are now, I completely understand. We got lucky, the school got a new head and we were fortunate enough to be allocated a really lovely supportive Ed Psych, but its still a daily fight to make sure my ds is supported.

I totally get the fear of moving schools. I was exactly the same. When I first came here for advice I was advised to change schools as well, but all the other local schools are oversubscribed, I have another ds at the school, I don't drive and there wasn't another option within easy travelling distance. So I do understand how hard it can be. Its not an option for everybody, I do understand, but I felt I should at least suggest it to you.

Have had a quick google for you:

Partnership with Parents, Surrey sounds like it might be worth calling.

This is a useful list of links to ASD related support in the Surrey area.

I would definitely try the Partnership with Parents and the Outreach Service, just tell them you don't know where else to turn for advice, explain the situation and take it from there.

I will have another Google tomorrow if I get chance.

You are making perfect sense, they are confusing you and giving you mixed messages.

As for growing a pair, the rhino hide and steel-capped butt-kicking boots, come with time. We all started out from where you are now, it never gets easy, but it does get easier.

I'm thinking your area must have different names for certain roles it can vary from LEA to LEA. In my area the Specialist Inclusion Service does the role that your Outreach Service does, so I would say its the Outreach Service you need to call.

I have rung partnership with parents, before. back in the autumn and they were horrified.rang them last week, wednesday, after advice on this thread.but no one has got back to me. will ring them again tomorrow.

I also rang the carers support runnymede. I spoke on wed last week too. not sure if they can do anything really, but she is coming to see me at home on 4th april.
Moose, I can't thank you enough. Thank you so very much for being so supportive.

I won't fuck about. I will take action tomoorow. I promise.

Yes, oblamov. Moosemama is giving you really good advice. In my LA the inclusion team is for excluded pupils. We have an advisory teaching service which includes communication and interaction specialists ( read autism) for children with SEN. Sounds like your LA calls it an outreach service which are central specialists who advise schools. Partnership with parents should advise you who within the Local Authority you should contact. Again in my LA you can't self-refer to these advisory teachers, you need the school to do that for you. Which is a pain.

My DS2's school were crap. It took a very good advisory teacher to turn it around for him, and eventually a good 1 to 1 TA. I'm thinking secondary is going to be better. I couldn't bring myself to move DS2 because DS1 was so settled. I still have a poor relationship with the HT but it works.

Keep at it and keep on here for great advice and moral support.

Thank you Ellen. I am really trying to take on baord all of the good advice I have had.

When you have a child with behavioral problems, you need to reassess your idea of a decent school, and do it fast.

this school might not be a failing school, but it is failing HIM.

My son goes to the 'worst' school in a 10 mile radius. It's fantastic. They have rejigged their literacy timetable to fit in with ds1's morning ritalin schedule (he doesn't have it for afternoons)

go to the other schools and VISIT them, and ask the what their inclusion policy is.

the thing is about the schools in bad areas is that the teachers are extremely experienced with working with children who have behavioral problems. They really do know what they are doing. My child is in a mainstream school, but doesn't stand out much because he's one of about 8 autistic children, one of 15% of the children with social, emotional and behavioral problems, and despite as, adhd and dyspraxia, he's not the most disabled by a long shot.

cheers colditz.
Yiou see I just don't get it. It is supposed to be one of the top schools in the county. Is our closest school.
And ds was invited ot a birthdfay party last mont5h of a boy who have very severs SN, from his class. In fact there are 6/30 children with sn in both classes. so quite high.
Anyway at party was talking to mum. saying how sorry I was to hear how SN TA who oly worked with eher son, was leaving that week. And she sang the praises of the school. how fab the senco was. how he was so severe, that they went to talk to the shcool, prior to admission, and they have been so fab. got so much money to meet all his needs.
So I told her, funny because we have experienced nothing but.... and she said, she understood, so hard becasue not clear, my ds might be/so mild.

But I know of another lady whose daughter is badly SN, in his class. And she is well happy.

So ???????

got to go bed. back tomorrow.

Hi Oblomov,

It being one of the top schools in the county counts for diddly squat if it is not helping him but actively failing him. BTW is this also a state or independent school?.

I would be looking at other schools now, even with a Statement in place I don't think they'd want to help him achieve his full potential.

If PP continue to be of no real use, use the services of one of the independent charitable organisations out there instead like SOS:SEN, ACE or IPSEA.

Hopefully your PP is alright and is more independent than some but many of them are closely tied in with the LEA in question and can thus tow their party line. Jus tbear that in mind.

AS even if "mild" can be very debilitating and difficult when it comes to being at school and having to deal with all the unwritten social rules that such places have. I know of a couple of children with AS at secondary and they all without exception have Statements. Having one of those won't solve all the problems but it makes school sit up and take proper notice because that is a legally binding document which they have to follow. Other plans like School Action Plus can have limited support and importantly is not legally binding.

You are truly in the best position to fight your son's corner for him. This is also because no-one else will.

'MILD' is very difficult at state school. Even most 7 year olds have more sense compassion than to pick on an obviously disabled child - but they don't have much more insight than that. So kids whose behavior and socialisation is a little offbeat do get isolated.

Have you contacted autism outreach? If you're in leicestershire, the lady is FAB

Oblomov - your posts could have been written by me.

My ds (also 7 but in year 3) has gone through periods of crying himself to sleep night after night. He was labeled as the naughty boy in class. He reacts easily and others were taunting him and making up things about him. He was badly bullied and hurt on a number of occassions. He is described by other parents as "not being like other children" and "a bit odd".

I have no perfect solutions, but I did find that writing to the school setting out ds's issues and my concerns helped and copying it to the Govenors. It meant I got across exactly what I wanted to and they were unable to ignore it. I pointed out that my 7 year old son was depressed as a result of his experiences in their care and they needed to work with me to address what was going on. I always tried to be positive about the school and thankful for what they did so as to avoid putting them on the defensive.

In relation to the cycle of ds being told off for being naughty, the school agreed that instead of negative re-inforcement, they would reward ds if he put his hand up in class and did not shout out. The reward was for the entire class (it added to their "golden time points") so there was an incentive for them not to get him in to trouble.

As parents I was aware that out stance had always been fairly passive - ds would come home and say "X hit me" and we would dismiss it as a playground squabble. I came to realise that this was not in ds's interests so we repeatedly told him that if anyone hurt him at school he had to tell a teacher. We told the school we had done this and why.

We have worked with ds a lot on his self-esteem. Asking him why he thinks things happen to him and what it says about the people involved. He recognises that he can be loud and quirky but that the behaviour of the other children can be mean and cruel. We have talked about why people like to be part of a group and therefore why other children will join in when one child is being mean to him.

I often think that the whole thing has been as hard for me as ds and have to tell myself to step back and not get emotionally wrecked by it as it does not help ds. Its hard though.

I e-mailed OUTREACH. "In Outreach we do need a diagnosis of ASD to see a child". So no good there.
I rang partnership with parents. They will try sand attend the next school meeting with me. They too were surprised by the Outreach re-action.
I rang my school link worker. Man I raved, I was on fire. I told her that I would be writing to the governors if ... and was fed up of being fobbed off.
She has since text me. Has rung school. Head not there. she will advise me of the date of a meeting.

Thank you Goosey. The stress is not doing my diabetes any good. And not doing ds any good either. I will try and do as you say.

Thank you for Colditz's and Attila's posts. I know I will aave to move him if they don't do something. I do know this.

Oblomov, I'm so sorry to hear you are still getting the runaround. I can't believe the Outreach team wouldn't help you. Could they not even recommend a route to finding someone who could?

I have just found the Surrey branch of the NAS. I don't know if they might be able to offer you any advice, but it might be worth a phonecall.

I notice they have a list of parental support groups and attending one of those would definitely be a good idea. We were advised to start attending our local one as soon as ds was put on the waiting list for assessment. Often other parents who've been through similar problems in the area you live in can be the best soure of information. If nothing else it helps to hear that you aren't alone in your struggle.

moosemama

The chairman of the Parliamentary Education committee a couples of years ago stated that "SEN provision in the UK was not fit for purpose" one of the results from this was the Bercow Review which looked at Speech and Lanaguage provision in the UK, and then the ultimate government pen pusher Jim Rose looked at Dyslexia.

AS you say SENCos do not qualified to diagnose anything, and having been on the Becta Senco form for some years, most appear to be learning about baring a SENCo on the job, and due their lack of any real training can be easily believe the marketing hype of a good lobbyist.

The real problem goes back to 1984 when the government of the day was making cut back, and changed The Teacher curricullum from having SEN as a compulsory subject for all Teachers to a voluntary option. And like all voluntary option few trainee teachers bothered to do the SEN option. So we now have many generations of teachers who have little or no idea about the differences may have in their learning needs, and that any differences they may find are due to bad behavior. And eventually these poorly trained teachers become Head Teachers.
A second factor at about the same time the multi approaches of teaching reading were introduced, which upset the Phonics only lobby. They were told that the changes were made because all children are different, and so many will learn differently, even learning to read. So since then they have been telling anyone who would listen that all children are the same, and dismissing any research that describes or defines these differences, and that only naughty children can not learn to read when using phonics. And the current government education web site is now the marketing centre of the UK phonics industry. There is no scientific support for their claims, if anything there is now neurobiological support for the nature of the different ways all children need to learn.

I have disability Auditory Processing Disorder (APD), which means due to my disability i may not be able to listen to or process what others say. Many professionals would appear to have Professional APD, because they choose not to listen.

Yep, its a sad state of affairs alright dolfrog. I have an almost permanent headache these days from continuously banging my head against the wall.

Trying not to get too worked up about it all tonight, as we have ds1's IEP review tomorrow and I already know horns are going to be locked.

Good luck for that Moose. Sounds like you are going to need it !!!

Thanks Oblomov, I survived - just, but it was very, er ... interesting.

In fact I have started a thread about it.

The Outreach lady, from my area rang me today. She knows the SENCO really well, and later in the conversation she said what a particularly caring school and how fab SEN wise they were. I name dropped a couple of children names, who I know have very very severe SN, whose parents rae particularly happy with the schools service. she said ' oh yes, John Brown, that she knew them very well and thst they were doing very well with the school.
She later said, that it seemed like there weren't any issues at school. I suspect she has already talked to the SENCO !!!!!!
The school keep saying there are no issues. They seem to think there is nothing wrong. They see no problems, actually in the school, in the classroom, as far as they are concerned.

I asked for a meeting with teacher today. I can only do mondays and fridays. she said she couldn't see me today or monday, what about next friday pm. seemed too long, so she agreed to ring me at lunchtime.
I gave it to her, full barrels, but in a very calm, low tone.
she said she talked to the children on tuesday about teasing and labelling. she then sent ds to the head to deliver something, and named him, in her chat.
ds said he has had a happy week this week. seems to have forgotten that he was sobbing and sobbing on tuesday and wednesady before school ( monday was inset). atleast thats something.
I have invited one of his other friends to come and play on monday after school. then I will take them both to beavers.

I told teacher that along with the bullying etc etc etc, i wasn't happy academically. his handwriting is poor, and even i have trouble reading it easily. his comprehension is the main problem.
he has already reached level 24 for reading which is the year target. but he should be many levels above this. he was in reception and year 1 many levels above the target. she says this is good enough. she says his comprehension lets him down, because he can not predict what is going to happen next, when she stops and asks him.
his maths he is sat level 2a. they said a target of level 3, but she says he doesn't reach this becasue his reading of the instructions lets him down. especially when they are long worded maths questions.

can you not see a problem here. a pattern. comprehension, in reading, in literacy papers, in maths questions.

Not being able to predict, is a clasic classic AS trait. its the theory of mind and empathy , all over.

I said this. But I felt like screaming " you f**king ignornt moron. don't you GET IT. This is what aspergers IS, you total twat.

My communication skills, obviously leave so much to be desired, that I am unable to convince these people that there is a problem. He isn't falling behinbd academically, so who gives a stuff, seems to be theri attitude. I think I will use the famous potential word in my letter !!

Words fail me. No, actually, words really are failing me.

maybe one of you could help me out here.

Did I tell you that the headmistress phoned me ? she was not happy. said she had supported me all the way. and that they had followed the suggestions of my privately paid pyschologist. which i told her she had not.

I told her i was going to put it in writing. its all been verbal up till now. I go to meetings with teacher and senco. she didn't like this idea, of a letter, at all. Dh says "good. I'm glad she doesn't like the idea."

I have started on the letter already. I have copied and pasted mooses posts, as the starting point.

Any fab suggestions of words to use, that will really shit them up ?

Oh Oblomov this is unbelievable!

Definitely do the letter, I've found out myself this week just how important it is to have everything in writing. You should also check back through your posts here and any other evidence you have and start keeping a diary of how things are unfolding. Make a note of every conversation, passing comment in the playground after school, every incident with another child, every child your child gets upset about school - basically record everything.

I would refuse to discuss anything else on the phone now, insist on a meeting and take Parent Partnership or some other support with you every time.

The problems you are describing with his comprehension, as you quite rightly point out, are absolutely classic with children with AS and exactly the type of problems my ds struggles with. We had the same issue, ds was achieving well so there couldn't be a problem. Fast forward two years, his progress has completely stalled and we are going for a statement as he can't progress any further without 1-2-1 support. Still his SENCO tried to imply that because his achievement isn't behind as yet, he doesn't need or won't get support. The fact that he has always been working at least a couple of years ahead and has made no progress since the end of year 2 seems to completely pass her by. Yes, his achievement is within the government targets for his year - but for him its nowhere near realising his potential. Also its not just about achievement, its about, anxiety, self-confidence and social skills, all of which can be supported by a statement with or without an issue with achievement.

Sorry for the rant. Its been a long week!

I am absolutely knackered this evening, but will have a think and see whether I can help over the weekend. In the meantime have a ((hug)).

I know its probably daft to say, but do try and step away for it if you can for at least some of the weekend - if you don't it will wear you down and you'll be in no fit state to keep on fighting.

Thank you Moose, you support has been totally totally invalueable to me. You are right, I need to step away, else I will burst.

I am in a bad way. Dh has just got home, so may need to go.

Oblomov - just seen this.

If you are still around and want to talk about it, I am here too.

Hope you are doing ok.

Come and get it off your chest, Oblomov.