Ds1's Outward Bound Trip [long]

[moosemama]

So, ds1 is going on his first ever overnight school trip in a couple of weeks. He will be leaving on the Friday morning and returning on the Sunday evening, so two nights away from home.

The trip is fundamentally an outward bounds/activity weekend and when they initially sent the letters out, I thought ds wouldn't want to go and was ready to book a weekend at Legoland for that weekend to give him an excuse for not going. When I first told him about it, he was adamant that he didn't want to go. Then he went into school, where all the other children were of course really excited about it and decided he did want to go - not least of all because his best friend is going.

The Head gave a talk about the trip at the parents' information evening in September and said that children are expected to be self-sufficient and the point of the trip is to develop independence. So, they will have a timetable and list of equipment on the wall in their rooms and will be be expected to work out where they need to be, decide what is appropriate clothing for the activity and make sure they are there on time and suitably equipped etc.

I spoke to the Head (who leads the trip) at his last IEP review and said I was concerned about this, as ds is not at all independent, in fact he has a very low-level of self-awareness and would need far more support than his peers. Dh offered to go along as a general helper, so that he cold be available to supervise ds if necessary, but if not could just be another pair of hands.

The Head assured me that he had already discussed ds going on the trip with his class teachers and that they were keen for him to go, felt it would be good for him and understood that he would need extra help. They also, very kindly, told us that he has already been allocated a bed in the same room as his best friend, as they knew how important that would be to him and that he would need to know in advance in order to prepare himself - the other children won't find out whose room they're in until they arrive.

Since then ds has had his OT assessment and been dx with hypotonia, some hypermobility, extremely low core strength and very poor upper body strength. The school has had a copy of the report and I have also made sure I listed his AS and hypotonia on the health form we had to fill in.

The thing is, as the trip approaches I'm getting more and more worried about how he'll cope and whether or not the school actually do realise just how much supervision he is going to need compared with his peers.

At school he is in a very familiar ordered environment with a set routine and of course, this is the only environment that any of them have ever had to handle ds in.

Its a very different story when you are out and about with him, the phrase 'like herding cats' springs to mind! Without someone gently guiding him he would easily step off the pavement into the road, get left behind as everyone moves on and he's in his own world, etc, etc.

Of course in my mind this all translates into him stepping off a cliff, falling in a lake or getting lost in the caves. I know, I know [over anxious mother emoticon]

The other thing is that he's been struggling to learn to swim and is still pretty much a non-swimmer after one and a half swimming courses. A lot of the activities on the trip involve water (canoeing, raft building etc) He told me yesterday that he's worried about a canoe capsising and him not being able to get out or turn it over - I told him he doesn't have to do any of the activities he doesn't want to do - but to honest I have been thinking the same thing - I can't imagine him being able to roll a canoe with his low upper body and core strength.

So, how to I go about approaching the school to explain exactly what the issues are and how best to handle them? He has an IEP review a week before the trip, but they're always tight on time and I don't think we will be able to cover both the SEN and trip stuff in the time allocated.

Should I write to the Head with a list of my concerns, so that he has time to think about and address them, then get back to me - or would it be better to ask for a meeting specifically to discuss it all?

I don't want to come across as a paranoid and over-anxious mother - even though that's what I am - but I would like some reassurances that all the school and activity centre staff will be made aware of ds's needs and will supervise him accordingly.

Any thoughts ladies?

Apologies for the long post, just letting the stress out, as have been sat here ordering waterproofs and base layers for him this afternoon.

Hi Moose. School sound good and really positive about your ds.I would write stating the concerns you have and request assurances that ds will receive appropraite support. My ds's shool arranged a residential trip for the whole year and I was a bit concerned about how he would manage. I did pick up signals though that they would rather he didn't go. HT emphasised that if anyone did not behave the parents would get a call to go and collect their child immediately . After a few issues with school we were convinced that they would send him home so reluctantly pulled him out.
Does your ds have a helper at school who could go on the trip?

Moose your ds and mine sound pretty similar. Ds went on such a trip last year ( when he was in Y6). School were brilliant with him, he had a wonderful time and all went really well.

Your school sound good, I'd just give them a dummies guide to ds, and make it clear if there is any query at all to call you x

Oh and as and add.. When they returned I went to say a huge thank you to the staff, in particular two members who had been with ds the whole time. Well they smiled and looked at me with anew understanding and asked if I had managed to have a little rest :o

bless them

I can see why you are worried but I just wanted to say that having been on lots of these kind of activity breaks with other peoples children, they are usually extremely well cared for.

The centre staff will be made aware of his issues and will have worked with children similar to him before.

They are ususally really good at gauging when children have reached their limitations.

As for water activities I would be very surprised if he was put in a single canoe as a none swimmer, in fact I would be almost certain he won't be.
The children I go with have to be able to swim 50 metres before they are allowed to go into deep water and would definatly not go in a single canoe/kayak.

Lots of centres cater for quite sevely disabled children and so are really well up on childrens differing needs.

At the end of the day all your Ds needs to say is "I don't want to do that" and I am sure he would not be forced. Encouraged to give it a go maybe, but never forced.

He might surprise everyone and absolutly love it.

Be preared for him to be really filthy when he gets back and I hope he has a great time..

Hi DameE, I was really surprised, as I was expecting them to be giving off 'we'd rather he didn't go' vibes and was all ready to give them an easy out, but they were really positive. Particularly the Head, who's the lead teacher for the trip and has all the say-so about who does and doesn't go.

We have also had the whole 'code of conduct' 'anyone who doesn't behave beforehand will not be allowed to go' and lots of stuff about behaviour that puts either themselves or other pupils or staff at risk. I don't think they are worried about ds's general behaviour though, as he is never worse than a bit rude or obnoxious at school (typical AS stuff) and has never been proper trouble at school for his behaviour. He gets a bit back-chatty sometimes, but that's about it at school - he saves his best stuff for home!

Ds doesn't have a helper at the moment, but his Thursday/Friday class teacher is going and she has a ds herself that has borderline AS, so is more aware of potential problems than most teachers we've come across, although even she is caught out by ds sometimes.

I really want to be give him this opportunity to be himself and prove that he can be independent, but if I'm honest, it scares the pants off me.

I would have loved them to take up DH's offer of going along to help out and then being there if ds needed extra support - so much so that I made sure he was CRB checked for school trips even though he works full time - but they were convinced they wouldn't need him.

Lord knows what state I'm going to be in while he's away - I'll be an absolute wreck by Sunday night.

:) oh Lordy I was in a right state, totally needlessly too!

Funnily enough I was going to post something similar as DS is going to be going on a similar thing with the school in a couple of weeks!
Of the two members of staff who go with them, one is very keen (deputy head), the other who is DSs class teacher is a bit more, how can I put it, wary. Every now and then the deputy head will ask a question, like, how is he with eating. Apparently their main concern is how he will cope in the evenings when they play more game type things - chasing around doing treasure hunts in the dark etc. they know he can manage the activities as he did an activity day with them last year. I am going to have to have a meeting with them at some point that will go along the lines of, if you don't actually stand over him and check he won't actually change his socks - just putting clean ones out for him isn't enough, etc. but will also provide him lots of cue cards, especially for things like keeping his bed tidy etc. - something I know they have to do.
DS had massive panic attacks about going on the activity day last year, but in the end absolutely loved it. His teachers were aware he might just stand on the side and watch, but he didn't.
DS also can't swim at all - but they know that as they take him swimming every week.
I have also found a very helpful lass, who goes along to watch her younger brother who goes fencing with DS. She went last year and I am interogating her as to exactly what will happen - she is way more forthcoming than the school who just say to look at the displays on the wall. She has told me all about the food, how they take sweets to bribe staff that their rooms are tidy, exactly how each day works etc etc.

Thank you Carrot and Ineedalife, its reassuring to hear peoples' positive experiences.

They have said he doesn't have to do any activity he's not 100% happy with and I've been repeating that to him on a regular basis.

The swimming/canoe thing is particularly reassuring and I do know the centre they're going to has an excellent reputation and the school has been going there for years.

I know they are probably used to working with children who have disabilities, its the whole 'invisible disability' thing that worries me. Ds looks like the rest of the kids, but is very different in terms of his capabilities.

His new Passport should be arriving this week and I was thinking I should make sure that they have a copy of that available to all the staff on the trip. I think I'll add mine and dh's contact numbers to that as well, so they can call us if they are at all unsure.

He's only in year 4, not even 9 years old yet and obviously having AS, pretty delayed compared to his peers, so he just seems so young to be doing this. We did a school trip in juniors but not until year 6 - there's another, longer, trip in year 6 to get through as well!

What worked clothes wise for ds ( who would think about clothes and then panic) was each days fresh clothes in a day labelled zip lock bag.
A seperate bag for extra dry clothes and one for spare undies and socks.

Oh and a reminder card for things like tooth brushing, washing and making sure dirty clothes went in the empty days zip lock bag.

Sound a bit over kill, but ds managed by himself to have clean clothes everyday and didn't panic.

LittleMissGreen, ds doesn't just not manage to change his socks, he will put a new pair of pants and socks on top of the old pair unless I point it out to him! So he could potentially arrive home on Sunday with three pairs of pants and socks on!

I was thinking about individually bagging up his clothes for each day and labelling them, then doing the same for any extra stuff (base layers etc). At home we still have to lay everything out for him in dressing order. I honestly don't think the school have a clue how much support he needs with regards to self care.

They are aware of his swimming, as he's been going with the school. His instructor has pretty much given up trying to teach him now and is focussing on building his water confidence and getting over his sensory issues around water splashing in his face. There's the him and one other child left in the non-swimmer group out of the whole year group and the instructor says he's never come across anyone quite like ds1 before. (Not sure how to take that really. )

I'm sure he'll have a wail (sp? whale?) of a time and all my fretting will be for nought.

I know what you are saying about invisible disabilties moose, but I don't think his will be invisible because the school staff will tell the activity leaders when they arrive at each activity.

At some centres the actiity leaders move around with the groups and so become very familiar with the children very quickly.

Dd1 was a groupy for a summer when she left school and she used to say how easy it was to spot the ASD kids. Although she is hovering around the spectrum herself so maybe she could spot a kindred spirit.

He is quite young to be going on this kind of trip but I am sure they will be well geared up for them.

I am sending Dd3 to Brownie pack holiday in August she will be nearly 9 by then but has only stayed at my Mums once for 2 nights and she hated it. She is saying that she doesn't want to go away with Brownies at the moment but we will see. Luckily I know the team who are going with them really well and know that they will tke special care of her, that makes it easier for me.

So, what do we reckon - a letter, ask for a meeting or trust they'll do what's necessary and stop fretting?

If it makes you feel better ask for a meeting. I would do the idiot guide to ds though, I put things like prompts i use, what to do in a meltdown ( or in fact whatnot to do) etc. It'll make small queries easier for them.

ask for a meeting. just to reassure yourself.

it will be fine. we take cubs away to camp with various issues and tbh it's great because they are always the children who benefit the most.

and then big up ds about what fun he'll have.

I like that idea Carrot - but maybe I shouldn't put 'Idiot's Guide' on the cover.

Thanks madwomanintheattic. I am taking every opportunity to tell him how great its going to be and how he can choose which activities he wants to do and even if he changes his mind when he sees what they entail that's ok. He is currenlty mad keen for the archery (I'm picturing his poor teachers coming home with various puncture wounds) and underground maze.

I think I will ask for a meeting - I have to speak to his teacher tomorrow anyway as one of his old bullies starting rearing their ugly head again last week, but we didn't find out until Friday night, because his feelings diary went missing, then wasn't filled in.

My DS is going on a similar trip this May (Year 6) and I have similar worries! His is Mon - Fri, so 4 nights away. My major concern (silly really) is that he's none too reliable with his toiletting and how am I going to make sure his skiddy pants don't smell out the dorm. I'm going to buy some nappy sacks and get him to practice putting his pants in there.

I hadn't even thought about him falling off a cliff. Thanks moose!! Now I'm going to worry about that! The school went last year with a boy who had very challenging behaviour and managed ok with him. They'll put DS in a dorm with a friend. Sounds similar to your school. Perhaps I'll do a list for them. Thanks everyone.

Oops sorry Ellen!

Fwiw, I think an occurrence of my ds's multi-layered pants is far more likely than a clifftop accident.

Me again!

So, after a disasterous school day yesterday, involving a truly horrid for PE lesson where ds's AS needs and physical limitations were completely ignored and he was then told off for getting upset, I am even more worried about the trip and we have arranged a meeting with the Head. (Ds was in a terrible state when I collected him from school and continued to be in distress all evening. )

The only time he can see us is tomorrow morning before school. I promised dh I would come up with a list of points to discuss and what reassurances we want, so we can discuss it this eveing and my mind has gone completely blank. (In my defence I've had a horrible stomach bug since Sunday and now that's cleared up I have a stinking cold. )

Any suggestions for what I should be grilling asking him about?

All I can think at the moment is "Please Mr Headmaster don't let my ds1 fall off a cliff!"

Ok, have left this post and come back to it and this is what I have so far:

I know I should refer them back to his OT report, regarding his hypotonia and very low core and upper body strength (as they clearly haven't understood the implications of this).

I also need to remind them that he's slow to process instructions and they may need to repeat them several times, using exactly the same words for them to 'sink in'. Obviously, this could have safety implications with regard to some of the activities.

I should to ask if they need us to send along some of his gf food, particularly bread or if the centre will definitely be able to cater for his dietary needs. (Dh managed to give him the wrong lunch box last week, so he's already been glutened once with nasty physical and emotional consequences. )

I want to be reassured that they will keep the bullies away from him as well, because a couple of them have reared their ugly heads again over the past fortnight and I think they are both going on the trip.

I need some way of explaining to them that, outside of the very ordered and safe environment of the school, handling ds is a very different kettle of fish. Eg he will step off the pavement in front of a car if you don't guide him along the pavement, he doesn't take his cues from adults as to which direction they are going in etc and easily gets left behind or wanders off if you don't specifically make sure you've 'got' him and that the clinical psych at the assesment centre said that a particular issue with him is that he is too trusting and open with people he doesn't know so this could also potentially put him in danger.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

So sorry, moose.

Do they have an action plan for when your DS gets distressed, anxious or has a meltdown? How should they handle it, btw? Does he need nice safe time out, or just to be left for 5 mins, or reassurance (this makes my DS worse), or does a 'jolly hockey sticks' just work through it approach work best. I don't know your DS, but I'm sure you know what would work best to get him to comply fairly happily. They might need reminding!

Then, all staff who are going on the trip must know it and understand it, including site staff and instructors.

Do they fully appreciate that your DS needs to be handled like a much younger child when out of his ordered, structured comfort zone? Without babying him. You'll have to make sure they are. Give examples if you can.

Worry about the big things and let the small ones slide. He needs to be safe and secure and having a nice time. Coming home in 3 pairs of pants won't hurt him, wearing the same, dirty clothes all weekend doesn't matter, nor forgetting to clean his teeth. (Not to him, anyway and 9 year old boys won't notice.)

Have your list ready and make sure it gets to the teachers involved, not stuck in the HT's office.

some of this post made me laugh Moose - particularly the clothes on old clothes bit - ditto my DS. But i can understand your worries when school /home behaviour is very different. The things that make my DS's teacher raise her eyebrows is his dis-organisation. I've always replied that if she thinks that's bad, she ought to see his organisational skills at home.
I would make them aware of timings - how long it takes to get ready, and physically checking that your DS has the items each day that he needs to take (waterproofs/swimming stuff/ towel/water bottle etc).
Coping strategies that work during emotional meltdowns and angry ones too.
You might find that he copes well - and behaves as if at school - and then has a complete meltdown when he gets home as he can then relax.
I agree with the not getting too hung up with the little things. I know that if i don't tell my DH to brush their teeth/hair and wash faces that it might not be done. My DS wouldn't naturally bother with any of these!

Hi Ellen

No they don't, the EP has given them verbal and written advice on how to handle him, but as he's almost never had a total meltdown at school and his class teacher just reads anxiety/distress as naughtiness they obviously need reminding.

Yesterday was a total disaster and frankly I'm still furious with his teacher, as if she'd been listening to us and all the other professionals that are involved since she started teaching him in September, rather than putting her own spin on ds's behaviour (which is that AS is no excuse for bad behaviour ) she'd have handled the whole situation much better and ds would't have ended up in such a state.

His class teacher isn't going to be on the trip though, whereas the Head is and he's a much calmer and more tolerant/understanding person than the teacher and seems to have a better understanding of AS as well. The Head is the lead teacher on the trip and very much actively involved, so that's why I think he's the best person to approach with our concerns.

Ds has been working on developing coping strategies, first with the EP and now with the inclusion teacher, but he has a long way to go and still needs an adult to walk him through it. His strategies are all detailed in his passport though.

Giving examples of what sort of thing might bother him when he's out of his comfort zone and how best to handle him is a really good idea - thank you.

Good point about handling him like a younger child as well. That's exactly what I was saying to dh at lunchtime (we had a row, because he didn't think there was any point in having a meeting, as they will most likely pay lip service to us and send us off with a platitude like "don't worry Moosemama, we'll take good care of ds1". I said that we need to head that off at the pass, by making sure that they have had to directly address our specific concerns - I won the argument - as he had to agree in the end that a meeting was actually necessary. )

They do need to get their heads around the fact its a developmental delay, so they need to treat ds essentially as if he is at least a couple of years younger than he is, whilst not making him feel or babyish or stupid or look silly in front of his peers - its a fine line and not easy to get right if you're not used to it.

I'm not worried about the tooth brushing and pants thing really. Am fully prepared to dunk him in the bath the minute he gets home on Sunday night!

Auntevil thanks for replying - just dashing to school - back soon!

i had all the same worries for DS i would say if it were for longer id either want myself or dh to go with him but as its for such a short time im sure he will be ok they will have all there staff who know him his best friend and the center will have pleanty of people who know all about water safety ect he will if doing anything like rafting kayaking ect be wearing a life preserver ( i work for the navy training corp) and we do a lot of these trips we also have a lot of DC's with LD and AS, ASD , ADHD , as your so worried usually you are not allowed contact with your DS whilst on these trips as otherwise when they hear mums vice they sometimes miss home and get upset even if they were perfectly happy before, its totally understandable your worried nobody knows your DS as well as you , ask can you ring the teachers at a particular time in the evening to make sure hes ok? considering the circumstances , can i ask if anything happens how far is it can you go and get him if you had to? it wont happen he will be fine but knowing if anythings up they will ring and you could go get him would make me feel loads better

I wouldn't worry too much about the washing and changing of the pants and socks.I bet most of the boys there wont be thinking of doing that either.As you say a nice bath can await his return home.Sure he will have a fantastic time.My nt son returned from a long weekend once and was wearing EVERYTHING he went in.Yuk