confused, and reposted this here but originally posted in behaviour/development --nonetheless I'd really love your input.

[eandz]

So my DS has incredibly delayed speech. He is 29 months old. We were seeing a private speech therapist but nothing really progressed. We've finally seen an NHS SALT person and DS begins therapy with her in 3 weeks time (the waiting list in our area is long and oversubscribed).

We did makaton/play therapy/toddler groups/play dates. Some progress, but very little on a whole.

He does all non verbal communication. He has about 45 words now, and 2-4 phrases that are very infrequent but used in the right context. He is generally quite well behaved.

When we had our first SALT visit they suggested that we should put him in nursery as soon as we could.

She suggested one that had good SALT support and since this nursery does have a space open, I've decided I'll put DS in.

Will nursery really help him? Or will he be lost in the crowd? He has tonnes of allergies, of which are red fruits+eggs. I will definitely make the nursery aware of this, but whats the likelihood that they will remember? I'm having anxiety issues thinking of him trying to trade his approved snacks with someones strawberry.

Is there anything I can put on him (he refuses bracelets) that makes sure he doesn't eat certain things? He's non verbal so he can't really say 'no red fruits+eggs' and tbh he's been trying to eat tomatoes for almost a week. (I eat tomatoes in private--I eat them like apples).

He does love to play with other children and is generally sociableshares his snacks/holds handshugs. I'm afraid that I've started to hope he'll develop better speech when he goes, is it possible?

I've posted about his behavior before/started threads. He's had a long list allergies/terrible reflux.

just re-posting this is filling me with more dread. I think he might be somewhere on the Autistic spectrum. I'll post about that later.

eandz, one thing I have learned is that professionals may know a lot about their individual field, but no-one knows your child better than you. I am a huge advocate of gut feelings where parents are concerned. I only wish I'd learned to trust my instincts sooner.

I have ds1 who is 9 in April and recently dx with Aspergers, ds2 - who is 7 in April and pretty much NT - probably has a few traits, but doesn't need any support, is sociable, well liked and doing well at school and dd who is 25 months and about as nt as they come.

Dd has been a real eye-opener for me, its only through having her that I've realised how different my boys' development was. (Some of ds2's development was affected by learning behaviours off his elder brother.)

I would agree with those people who've said that two year olds aren't keen on talking to strange adults, so that could well impact in a nursery setting. However, you say your ds is sociable, likes other children and sharing etc, which is a great and may mean that he would want to communicate with them. I see your problem, its a minefield.

Could you maybe attend nursery with him and sort of loiter in the background for the first couple of sessions, then take him out if you feel its not right for him?

With regards to the spinning and flapping etc. I can see why you are concerned, but bear in mind that a lot of nt children enjoy spinning at this age - dd being a case in point - she loves it, especially when she falls over! The rigid thinking around food could also be a 2-year old control thing, but despite that, I think you're absolutely doing the right thing in going for a dev paed referral, as if your gut is telling you there's something there, you as his Mum are best placed to know and if you do turn out to be wrong, at least you will have put your mind at rest.

Sorry I can't be more help. My ds1 has highly advanced verbal skills but very poor non-verbal skills, so my experience is a bit different.

I would agree with moose

I have always known that something with ds1 "wasnt right" but allowed HVs, GPs and others to fob me off. I deeply regret not going with my instinct earlier. I think partially it was that I was so relieved when he did start doing things as the initial prognosis we had was so bleak IYSWIM?

wrt whether N is ready for nursery....You know him best. Does he separate well from you (i.e. without too much distress)? Does he like being in social situations and playing with other children or does it stress him out? Is he ok with lots of noise and possibly very bright lights? Does he have any sensory issues...i.e. is there anything that really upsets him like playdoh for example or water based play?

You mention his allergies...any nursery that is halfway decent will get you to fill out a medical form and should make all staff aware of what he can and cant have. They should also watch N to make sure he doesnt try to "swap" food with other children that could provoke a reaction.

How did you find the nursery? Was it personal recommendation? OFSTED? One word of warning wrt OFSTED, as you know I dont think they are worth the paper they are written on - you need to go with your instinct about the nursery...is it clean, enough staff to children ratio, easily accessible toilets, and a safe outside play area etc...

I went on the BMI website and they found me a local paed and put me through to make the appt.

Perhaps you could try that?

I am pretty sure most medical insurances dont cover developmental issues tbh. We are with BUPA (through dhs work) and its not covered.

My DS has severe speech delay - when he was same age as your DS he had no words at all. now he prob has about 50 or so - maybe more and he is 3 and a half.

We have been fortunate to have had one to one SALT since sept on NHS and she is lovely and heloed DS lots.

I decided to not give in to the pressures of pushing to get him a nursery place early. I am normally a teaching assistant/child carer myself and so gave up my job because we wanted me at home with him until he went to school - so we have stuck to our guns. He will attend nursery in September and a couple of weeks later he will be 4. I felt pressurised to begin with but am now happy with my decision - even though he is very sociable, I just felt that had I gone down the nursery route, the SALT wouldn't have been quite so forthcoming either - besides no decent preschool locally that we would have been happy with him attending.

Three weeks seems ages when they are so young. I'd be tempted to save your money and wait for the NHS developmental paed. At least it's not just a community paed. The important thing is to 'treat the symptoms' starting with his communication, which you are doing with the SALT. I'd send your DS to nursery for a few days a week. Seeing him alongside other children of the same age may make any unusual traits clearer. And he'd have access to some more SALT there?

Hi I have a similar nearly 4 yr old (birthday end of march) ds to you - severe speech delay (still only 8 words, spinning and quite rigid in his feeding - only will use certain spoon, cup, plate etc.) He went to pre-school at 2.5 BUT we have been incredibly lucky cos the SENCO is wonderful. She has worked closely with the SaLT and does 1:1 therapy with him on a daily basis as per SaLTs instructions and not only has she helped with teaching him Makaton but she has taught the rest of the kids and leaders there too so it is used as a normal part of communication in pre-school even as far as the fact that they sign songs as well as singing them. Ds goes up to reception in Sept and he has established friendships which should move with him. For this I will be forever grateful

As regards the allergies I can't really comment but DS has epilepsy and I know pre-school has taken all precations necessary and everyone who is involved is made aware of the protocol should he fit - this includes parent helpers and visitors to pre-school.

I know I have been very lucky with our pre-school and even more so in that it is attached to the ms school we're hoping ds will go to - I think all I would say is go and see if you could maybe visit and talk to the SENCO and maybe other parents and see what your "gut" tells you. Good luck

moosemama

when I take him to nursery, I'll probably stay the week with him and leave an hour earlier each day. Then the following week I'll just stay for a few minutes and wait in a waiting room they have in case he doesn't settle.

I'm not to sure what I'm doing really. I don't think nursery will really help, but I can't say it won't. He did start walking the day he had a playdate with boys his age who did walk...it was the first time I'd seen him try to stand --and then that evening he walked...but it was just a coincidence. He could do it all the time, he just needed to see someone his size do it.

Could this really be because I didn't socialize him enough? I thought a few playdates/playgroups were enough, although admittedly many of them weren't always the same age range.

His nursery is a leyf nursery--not sure if it's great or not. It's just close and N's friends go there. They accept those childcare vouchers so it's the easiest option we have.

He seems okay without me if he's having fun. Not sure how he'll be at nursery, but I know I'll be the one crying.

His SALT will come to see him at this nursery.

eandz N's issues are not manifesting themsselves because you have never taken him to soft play, ok??????

Toby has never been to soft play, or to nursery or to a toddler group either, partially because he has ds1 to play with (and they were together 24:7 for most of last year!) and partially because I am too lazy
Toby starts pre school in sept as I want him to be more verbal than he is now (although he is saying more everyday) and potty trained by the time he goes. Round here, some pre schools wont accept dc if they arent potty trained.

Great that the SALT will come to see him at nursery and that its where his friends go...that will really help him.

And yes.....you will cry, but we'll hold your hand, ok? x

thank you

Oh eandz, none of this is because you didn't socialise your ds's enough. I know its hard, but please try not to blame yourself. Sometimes things just are what they are and we have to do our best with the lot we are given.

Your little boy is lucky to have you as his Mummy. An awful lot of parent's wouldn't have even noticed his difficulties, let alone fought to get help for them at this age.

The fact that you've identified that he has some issues while he is still so young is fantastic and will stand him in good stead with regards to getting the help and support he needs to overcome any difficulties he has.

Don't stop searching, reading and posting on the SN boards. There's such an amazing amount of knowledge, help and support on here and as Becca says, we do a good line in hand holding and shoulders for crying on as well.

it's really helpful to hear from you girls.

it's very difficult of being accused of not doing enough.

mil hounds me over 'if only you had done this' and 'surely these problems run in your family?'

blah. dh isn't too supportive when his Mother is around. One of these days I'll probably flip out and egg her.

star

I wish I knew how to ignore people better. To be honest though, after being worried about N, I deeply worry about my marriage and if I can forgive the way I feel abandoned by my husband when his mother comes around to question me.

Blah. So I've been trying to simplify my sentences towards N, so far it's not making much of a difference.

Keep at it eandz, changes to language can take ages. I bet your DH is just at a different stage if grief to you. still at denial maybe. Keep talking but don't push it and hopefully you'll both be able to support each other again. Hang on in there.

Thank you EllenJane1

I can really empathise wrt the mother thing eandz

My MIL can be quite venemous (her daughters words, not mine!) and I have been dreading telling her about the appts and things we are doing with ds1 from next week.

Her response?

"He is fine. Dh was just the same at that age"

sigh.

No. He wasnt. He learnt to read and write with no problems and didnt exhibit ds1's other behaviours either.

Water off a ducks back to me now eandz It does get easier to ignore, honestly.

dh now knows that, as far as his mother is concerned, she is entitled to her opnion, but that is all it is...her opinion. He stands up for us now, but didnt for a long time and it did cause us problems.

Dh is still in denial tbh. Dont care. I cant let dh's (or anyones elses) issues cloud my judgement about ds1 anymore.

You have done such a great job wrt Ns food issues already and have done it on your own with no help from anyone, so pat yourself on the back, accept you are an awesome mum and do what you have to do for your child.

xxxx

Becaroo

how did you not go crazy at your DH? I'm a very childish person, so I often do fight the need to throw a dirty diaper/eggs at peoples faces if I've had enough.

Ah, then I'm childish too

I have lobbed various things at dh when he makes me crazy...TV remote is my fave, although I have now decided that the dents in the plaster are too annoying....dh is very good at ducking to miss projectiles I lob at him.....most annoying!

I did have to have "the conversation" with dh when ds1 was about 2.5 though....ds1 was very ill and had been in hospital all week after an emergency groin repair op and dh would not take any time off work to be with me/help me at the hospital. I even had to sign the permission form for the op on my own. It took me,4 nurses and the paed to hold ds1 down to anaesthetise him...shudder.

It was awful. He had a reaction to the spinal they gave too and was really ill for a week..could only keep water down.

I told dh - calmly - after we were home that if he EVER put ANYTHING (work, his mother etc) before ds1 and me again I would leave him. I meant it. He knew I meant it. Has been ok since - with just the odd moments of being an arsehole, but thats just men for you, isnt it???

..I've told DH if he ever lets anyone speak to me like that again-especially his mother, I'll make Gadaffi look like a saint.

Becaroo

Oh goodness, I can't believe your poor DS has gone through soo much at such a young age. :( I'm sorry you had to go through it too.

Men suck. blah.

eandz Honestly, I make Stalin look like Alan Carr sometimes Good for you for telling dh off btw.

I have pretty much tried to block out the first year of ds1's life tbh....I know that sounds terrible but it was just so unremittingly awful...so many hospital visits, so many tests, so much bad care and advice by so called HCPs...

When he was really little - 8 weeks ish - we were told he could be blind and deaf and I think that I was just so relived when he wasnt and that he did sit unaided/crawl/walk eventually that I sort of convinced myself everything was ok, you know?

I wish I could turn back the clock, I really do, but the best I can do now is try and get ds1 the help and support he needs.

Just like you are with N.

x

Have told ds1 about next week btw...his appt on weds and going to see the paed next monday...his response?

"oooh, does that mean I get 2 days off school mummy???!"

Kids!

Blaming the mother is sadly the easy option, particularly for those relatives in denial. Agree with star, detach mentally if not possibly physically from those who are unsupportive to team becaroo/e and z. And imo no child ever was lang delayed due to lack of toddler group, so much of normal development is inbuilt, rather than due to superior parenting. Improving language can be a slow process, dont be disheartened by lack of quick results.