If ABA was free, would you do it for a 3 year old?

[missworld2010]

Or, hypothetically speaking, if you had been given enough money to cover the cost of doing it for a year, would you? Or anything else?

Not sure I've read enough about it, but am worried that we're not doing it, and that every day is a wasted one with very little intervention. Our DD wil be 4 in June and has just started a mainstream nursery where first few days have gone very well, but I can already see the behaviour sliding and am v concerned for the future...

:(

100% yes.

BUT, I'd be very picky about the provider. There are cowboys out there ready to make you sign up to something they tell you little about and who don't have the experience and understanding of child development or learning.

You know, most of the good providers don't make you commit in advance so you can end it at a minutes notice if you feel you need to.

An excellent introduction to how ABA works is the PECS course. Real hands-on practise.

If you want to get a move on, join the ABA yahoo group and find someone in your area to go and visit and watch. Most families are used to having people in their home and very happy to have you watch and talk to you about how they run their programmes and any pitfalls to watch out with both with programmes, with service providers and with your LA.

hth

absolutely.

agree with Star though - pick your provider carefully.

ask on here (there are a variety of providers used) for recommendations, and search for references.

a bad ABA provider can cause untold problems.

Tell us a bit more about your concerns.

Maybe then we can give you some help about specific stuff (which may or may not be ABA or ABA'esque) to try?

OK well I often feel bad complaining as DD2 (4 in June) is such a gorgeous, happy ad otherwise healthy little girl that lots of people don't really see anything wrong with her. BUT as she's started at her new school nursery lately it has made me rather sad as being with all her peers really just highlights for me how far behind she is. Her speech is unclear, and her understanding is limited, so she doesn't really do conversations. However she can count to 100 so people obviously think she's bright.
I'm apprehensive about a day coming up where all the children are being askeed to wear a to in their favourite colour... well she doesn't have a favourite colour as she doesn't really understand the word favourite, but it's a struggle for me to get any clothes on her in the morning and she's just about accepted the uniform. to try and get her to wear a different top to school when she doesn't understand why will either not go down very well (cue another tantrum) or she'll then think she can wear anything she wants any day.

Sorry bit rambling there... the main issue is really a control one, linked with the not understanding, which means that adult-led activities (in the words of the educational psychologist) are generally followed by her. That's why I'm wondering if ABA or some other type of training would be a good idea... am so confused at mo as to what to do :(

I would absolutely look into it, my DS is the same age and we are starting a programme in mid-feb. He is still going through formal diagnosis but they have said he is borderline, but will nonetheless very much benefit very much from ABA.

I am not in the UK and the set-up here is rather different, but I would've thought any provider of ABA would be able to tell you whether it would be of benefit to your DD and tailor a programme to her needs.

Is she seeing a SALT by the way? If you have spare money for therapies then a private SALT might also be of help, ours has been fantastic and really a help, as DS's language improves other issues have improved along with it.

Your DD sounds rather similar to my DS actually, I have the same kinds of issues about getting him dressed, he has his repertoire of clothes he likes and any deviation from that can be a source of trauma! We got through Halloween ok, but carnival is coming up...

hi all i am new here but please be aware i am quite outspoken i am mother to three two of whom are severly autistic non verbal. i am ten years into the world of special needs and autism. i have seen the whole she bang of diets intervention, therapies, removal of mercury fillings, cut our dairy etc etc .
ABA ( thats a joke ) right now i have witnessed friends spend and i mean spend £1000,s of pounds remorgaged houses and divorce in the process to help improve their autistic childrens communication !
TRUTH IS none of these things WORKED ! ABA is a cruel robotic form of enforcing a child to confirmlike my views or not i have seen it and i have seen ift FAIL but one thing was for sure IT FLEECED THE PARENTS OF ALL THEIR SAVINGS PUT MARRIGES UNDER TREMONDOUS PRESSURE FAMILIES BASICALLY GOING UNDER THROUGH THE EMOTIONAL STRESS / DURESS THEY WERE UNDER TO CARRY OUT THE ABA PROGRAMM. WHICH I BELIEVE DOES NOT WORK MY OPINION IF ABA WORKED HEY THIS FORUM WOULD BE DEFUNCT AS THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR SPECIAL SCHOOLS AS ABA WILL SORT OUT THE AUTISM !!!!!
NO IT WONT ! IF ABA CURED OR INDEEED IMPROVED THOSE WITH ASD WE WOULD ALL BE DOING IT ! AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME THERE IS NO CURE FOR AUTISM SO DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY!
I know some of you will find my views extreme i just speak from my decade of experiences if i could cure autism through ABA I WOULD CUT OFF BOTH MY ARMS TO HELP MY KIDS ............. SO DONT WASTE YOUR TIME ENJOY YOUR CHILDREN AS THEY ARE . one last point ABA costs a huge amount of money now if it works???? then why do we still have autistic children ........... someone is making money !!!!

Who has said ABA cures autism?

Who has said it is expensive?

ABA doesn't cure autism, that is stupid, but I have seen it work wonders in terms of behaviour and communication for literally 100s of pals. Raven, sounds like your pals had crap ABA teams - which happens of course, as in any walk of life there are good and bad people. A lot of ABA is just about common sense , firm parenting and rewarding good/discouraging bad behaviour. I too have a massive experience over the last 11 years in the world of autism, and have seen, read and tried out a myriad of different therapies. I think my conclusion is that there are a lot far worse therapies than ABA around, and ABA has seemed the most effective to me.

well, that's certainly an extreme view, raven.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone claim that ABA cures autism.

and Starting is right, it doesn't have ot cost.

as for special schools being defunct - where do ABA schools fit in, then?

the robotic aspect I am not even going to begin to go into, tbh. the evidence is before my eyes, thanks, in th eform of dd1 who is currently dancing around the playroom dressed up as a bumblebee - I htink her school nativity went to her head, and she is now completely starstruck

ABA does not cure autism. I personally believe nothing does.

But thanks to ABA my son has stopped tantrumming as he can communicate, he can dress himself, he can play with toys appropriately, has a vocabulary that has gone from zero to several hundred and can eat properly with cutlery.

All the above may seem pretty mundane but they have made him immeasurably happier. Plus can you tell me how you think he would have learned these skills otherwise? Certainly not through the lousy NHS provision and certainly not through his own motivation.

Would you have denied him these skills? Have they made him into a robot?

I actually feel quite angry at the vehemence of your claims. Come and meet my son anytime

Anyway Raven Welcome to MN. If you're outspoken we'll have fun for sure.

Did you follow the Riven stuff to us?

Your life must certainly be 'interesting' with 3 children with asd. Do you two non-verbal children use any form of communication that isn't verbal?

Yes, welcome, I think Raven should be allowed to disagree with ABA, just like I sometimes have disagreements with pals who absolutely believe in biomed/gfcf stuff (I don't). There shouldn't just be one set of views and no-one is allowed to diverge from it - that's not a good discussion forum at all. But I do think Raven has spouted some fairly hackneyed old chestnuts about ABA, many of which were spouted at me by the LEA when trying to put me off it - and most of which is said by people who have never actually sat through and experienced a real ABA session, but have just inherited their viewpoints. It's far from robotic (done right) but is highly fun and motivating in order to get the kid to WANT to learn.

Yes absolutely I would (& do) do ABA :)

Ds (4.3) has made fabulous progress & has a really great life. Don't really know what Raven is going on about tbh, it certainly doesn't sound anything like our ABA programme.

On top of the hours we do at home (but never at home - he's out somewhere or other everyday) we've also trained his keyworker at nursery so she's uses ABA there too (that's another 9 hours a week) - that's made a huge difference to his progress particularly with social skills (we went to soft play last week & twice he completely independently initiated games (tag then football) with other children). We get 45 mins of SALT every 6 weeks-ish & no other intervention.

hello ladies
i take on board some of your pointS which are extremely valid fact YES aspects of aba DO help some children infact any therapy will have an element that will benefit a child and that is GOOD after all we all want to improve our childrens communication.
like you all i too have read the plethroa of books about asd one sticks in my minf let me hear your voice where the autor advcates aba to be honest i had to put it down i found it very distressing. i am at the stage now where i onlt read book by those who are living with asd such as donna william temple grandin. i dont DO EXPERTS i am the expert with my kids i learnt very early on that no cavalry was coming to help my kids it was down to me .
how do my kids communicate we use pecs but with pictures and some makaton. We constantly strive to expand our childrens world engaging them at all times and being extremely creative with my communication skills . ( i am a medium and clairvoyant so use my sixth sense at all time to help my children ) i think all mother use their sixith sense to facilitate interaction .
RIVEN i went on my local radio station today to speak after a lady from mums net spoke to the presenter about her case and i went on to explain how i felt about her situation i am fiercly supportive of any mother who walks this weird path of special needs and feel we are at time so much more stronger than most we have to be.
perhaps to some of you i may sem harsh and perhaps this is due to the hard knock i have taken through time . like all of your the most important thing in this world is the love i have for my kids and that makes me strive to cut out the phonies who are out there to exploit the vunerability of those with childrem who have disablities and lets not foget their is a market out there making heaps out of our pain .
someone asked who had said aba cured asd and how much money our ffriends paid well i think for the first 6 months it was £9000, and er no improvement ! the aba people promised the sun and the moon never happened . hope this answers some of your questions and like i said i am very straight and happy for your to challenge me on any thing i only have my truth to offers .
if any of you are interested we made a film for the bbc some years back go to utube and put in DARK STAR AUTISM and our film will come up it tells our story about our first child only two mins long at the time my daughter was not dx by the way i dont know how to correct spelling on here just yet so bear with me

ok so next question is, how do you know who is, or where to find a good provider?!

Are there any alternatives to ABA? Any other types of intervention which people have experience of, in so far as improving speech/understanding/behaviour (as opposed to a cure which I think most people realise is not on the cards...)?

Private SALT been a few times, already miles better than anything given by NHS (not difficult, as that has been purely observations rather than actual therapy - think I'll change their name to SALO ha ha) but was difficult even to find her, and she doesn't work many hours :(

am thinking of retraining as SALT, OT and Educational Psychologist, what do you think? Is it difficult?

and another thought/question for those with experience, does ABA work better with children who are more seriously affected or more borderline perhaps?

sorry ladies if you wish to hear me speaking today about Riven go to BBC IPLAYER and listen again BBC RADIO MERSEYSIDE ROGER PHILLIPS show i was on towards the end of a two hour programm my real name is VANESSA , I also forgot to mention we use an ipad for one of our children and its fantastic hightly recomend it, so now you know enough about me and my big mouth haha .
my children lost their voice so i am their voice i dont always slag off stuff i have some very creative ideas that have worked really well with our kids and happy to share .

Raven You are funny!

Please can you break up your posts a bit though because the text jumps around the screen for me when it is all in a block.

I'll do the ABA thing with you another time but your impression is 'probably' out-of -date given the age of your children. Although you might be interested to know that PECS is ABA in quite it's purest form.

Anyway, back to the other stuff:

'i am the expert with my kids i learnt very early on that no cavalry was coming to help my kids it was down to me'

Totally agree. Most of us here have discovered that too.

'perhaps to some of you i may sem harsh and perhaps this is due to the hard knock i have taken through time'

LOL you're kidding me aren't you? You've clearly not been here before then . Harsh is an understatement for the strength of feeling sometimes displayed on this board.

'strive to cut out the phonies who are out there to exploit the vunerability of those with childrem who have disablities'

I think many of us would class quite a number of LA employees in that actually, which is why we look elsewhere for our support.

'and lets not foget their is a market out there making heaps out of our pain'

Absolutely. Just look at the cost of Special Needs equipment when most of the time it is as cheap or cheaper to make than non-SN equipment. And I agree there are lots of therapies advertised to vulnerable parents at quite an expense.

When I asked who had said that ABA cured autism, I really did mean who. Who exactly? What was their name or their organisation?

welcome, raven - I hop eoyu stay around

I htink people challenged because, well, we're all doing ABA, and to be told yet again it own't wor/will turn our children into robots/is a waste of money etc is jsut a bit much!

my dd1 uses an iPad too -they are excellent, aren't they?

misworld: I used Sean Rhodes as a consultant, and can thoroughly recommned him. there are others, of course too, and I would suggest you speak to a few to interview, really, and try to find someone who fits with what you want to achieve and how.

GOOD OLD COMMON SENSE WORKS it amazes me how so many people just dont use this! duh wake up and i mean those who are supposed to be trained in this field ..... hello ! true story i once up on a time went on aparenting course with my friend who is a single mum with 7 children 4 HAVE ASD!!!! We sat in the classroom and listened to the rubbish the course was run by a psychologist with NO kids and a nurse with NO kids mmmm whose the experts? i mean between me and my friend we had 10 kids 7 with asd yet these straight out of univ flips charting "experts" were telling us how to parent this type of thing gets up my nose .
re ABA PROVIDERS I DONT HAVE A CLUE as i said i just watched my frined throw money at it no improvemnt what so ever very sad but good luck to those of you who choose this path

missworld Generally speaking any education package works better with children who are more capable. That's just the way it is.

ABA isn't a 'thing'. You assess a childs skills to find out where they are and then systematically fill in the gaps. At 4yrs old this would most likely be done through goal-directed play. Your ds shouldn't even know that he is 'working'.

I recommend this person, for a reasonable first assessment. She can assess your child and give you information about what type of intervention is likely to be successful. She is NOT an ABA provider, she is a qualified early years teacher with a specialism in autism, but she can set up an ABA programme, or recommend a suitable ABA provider if you'd prefer

firstly apologies for my block typing i will try to make things clearer .

so i am among folk who also feel as strongly as i do good !
yes i was aware that pecs is a form of aba.

like i said elements of any therapy will help a certain child and as we all are aware no two children with asd are the same .

one thing i am very concerned with is the mental well being of parents raising a child with any form of disablity .
we as mothers devote everything to raise our kids and very often for those who are not supported this can be extremely trying on their emotional health this should never be over looked.
i have seen many people go under and have a breakdown .
most people who have normal kids cannot comprehend the stresses of our families .

so i dont suffer fools or phonies most experts run when they here my name as i have had them in tears especailly the ed psyches now they really get me but generally i am not all bad .
i think what can i offer just LOVE thats all.

Oh that's better, - phew, I can read what you write