Have a meeting with the LEA tomorrow about refused statement. Feel unprepared and worried!

[trunkybun]

I need HELP!!
I have been offered this meeting to discuss their refusal to offer a Statement and I presume to have an opportunity to change this decision before going to Tribunal.
I have copies of all the reports from Ed Psych, SALT, OT's etc (but these are the same reports I sent with my request for Statutory Assesment, so they have already seen them)In addition I have written a list of reasons why I feel he needs a statement and how I feel he will be affected if he doesn't.
The school agree that he does need one, primarily to assist with his social skills, writing, self management and sensory seeking behaviour. But the LEA seem to think that because he has made progress academically SA+ will be enough.
They have issued a 'Note in Lieu' which in itself is quite long and detailed and I would argue would need extra funding for the school to be able to comply!
I have spent hours this morning trawling through the old threads on MN regarding this issue and think now that my document is too wordy/emotional and not concise/punchy enough. Any advice at all, including 'killer' quotes/phrases would be much appreciated.
I have used the IPSEA and SOS SEN websites for advice, but have been unable to get anyone on the phone yet! Also spoke to Parent Partnership whose advice was 'try not to let them intimidate you' GULP!!

I was refused because of academic progress bur Sencop states :
academic attainment is not in itself sufficient for LEAs to conclude that a
statutory assessment is or is not necessary. An individual child?s attainment must always
be understood in the context of the attainments of the child?s peers, the child?s rate of
progress over time and, where appropriate, expectations of the child?s performance.

What other reasons were given to refuse?

Don't feel under pressure to 'sell' yourself to them. You have already done that. Use the meeting as an opportunity that you are giving THEM to justify their decision and head of the inevitable tribunal.

THEY are on the defensive, not you.

Therefore. The balance of talking should be 80% them, 20% you.

You must end the meeting with this:

'Thank you for your time. You have given me some things to think about. I can't agree anything on the spot but I will give everything you have said due consideration'

If possible get someone independent to go with you to take notes and ideally be responsiblt for the minutes. If you dare, ask them if you can record it.

This meeting is not scary. It is run of the mill and quite boring for the LA as USUALLY it is nothing more than a date to demonstrate with SENDIST that they have been available for discussions. Therefore, YOU don't want to give all if any of your tribunal arguments away.

Be as bored and as calm as them. Let them do all the talking. Agree nothing on the day.

Hi ftz - Gosh that was quick!

Verbatim - it says:
'xxx has made progress in his attainment at school. He is being well supported by the school and is accessing his current educational environment well. The school has put in a range of support following advice from Children's Therapy Services, Specialist Speech and Language Servises and the Educational Psychologist.
Reassesment by the Ed Psych in Sept 2010 shows that xxx has continued to make progress in both spelling and word reading. The extreme gap between his acheivements in spelling and word reading has reduced over time. His ability to attend to tasks has also improved.
The Ed Psych states that xxx's needs can be met within a mainstream school with additional support. We would anticipate that the National Curriculum and the provision delegated to schools to support children with SEN would be appropriate for the level of need that xxxx is currently presenting'
Phew!

I do not contest that DS has made progress or that the school have supported him well (which is why he has made progress) but the school are at the limit at what they can provide and the progress he has made is not commensurate with his ability.

Most importantly his happiness, self esteem and motivation have all declined steeply over the past two years due to his inability to cope with the social aspects of school. And with Secondary School looming on the horizon I cannot help but think things will probably get noticeably worse in this regard if he does not get extra help.

As a bit of background, in terms of attainment in 2008 his reading was in 99th centile with spelling in 1st centile. In 2010 his reading is in 75th centile with spelling in 10th - still a big disparity I would say.(he is 9 years old)

Don't place al the emphasis on academic achievement - support is about more than just that.

Play hard ball and leave them in no doubt at all that you will pursue this to SENDIST.

Do not attend such a meeting on your own if at all possible. Take notes also during this.

Decline the Note in lieu and tell them you want a statement - the NIL not worth the paper its written on. Its not legally binding either unlike a statement.

Our experience was very much like star for LA it was going through the motions. everything we said they just disagreed, it was very frustrating. It is very unlikely it will be a genuine attempt to settle they usually wait and see if you do actually go through with the appeal -lots of parents do drop out. The way it was explained to me was that if there are 10 families and 10 hurdles then one parent will drop out at each hurdle so it's in their interests to say no and only give in for those who see it through to the end. Go with questions not being defensive. eg what training have the school had in teaching social skills. what training and support will they be putting in. What training have their professionals had it's amazing how many have been on a 1 day course themselves and then go into school calling themselves experts. You need systematic programmes for all these needs and mainstream teachers have no training on any of this. If I had to do it again I would be saying I want to see draft programmes for social skills, behaviour management etc within 4 weeks for my consideration and want them signed off by outreach, ep, teachers and parents with SMART targets. I'd also be saying which courses have they been on how long etc

I did not get to have a meeting with LA. I wrote a letter disputing all their reasons for refusal and stated I would be happy to meet with them once they had answered all my points. They never answered these (would have been interesting to see what they would have said) but did agree to assess! Just hold your ground and insist that you need a statement. Good luck.

Aother point in favour of a Statement -

all those who will teach DS are expected to have read his Statement so they are aware of his difficulties and can provide support/tailor lessons etc.

That's not the case with a NIL.

So also argue that a Statement will give him that continuity. (Minor point really)

Thanks everyone!
Another point. DS is currently having exra tests recommended by the Paediatrician. He had an EEG this week and is due to have bloods done and an MRI next Wednesday. I believe this to be to investigate whether he has some kind of Autistic disorder - I had a quick peek at the forms and noticed one of the tests is for Fragile X and the Paed noted he has Dysmorphic features (which made me feel a bit and ) Should I mention this? to me the diagnosis is kind of irrelevant, it's not going to change how DS is coping, or how he feels.

I agree actually, that a dx is irrelevant to your ds and to you. His needs are his needs. He is who he is etc.

Unfortunately the system is a bit hung up on eligability criteria and often the only way to get over hurdles is to present the gate-keepers with the golden ticket of dx.

I agree a secondary dx won't change need but I would probably mention it esp if they try the his needs are very minor / asd very mild line. Because it backs up that he does really have a condition and you are not imagining his needs. Don't expect them to listen just assume it's part of everyone looking like they are cooperating for SEND. Forgot to say my LA backed down once we registered an appeal with SEND.

Haven't got any wise words to offer as I'm nowhere near this stage yet, but just wanted to wish you luck for tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your help. I'm going to sit down with a cup of tea (out of wine sadly) read through what I've written and cry make some ammendments, also look again at SEN Code of Practice.
I am going to attend on my own as DH isn't overly familiar with all the reports etc. and I fear he may say something contradictory to the points I am aiming to put accross.
My aim is to be pleasant and calm but resolved. If it all goes tits up it's off to Tribunal I guess!

Aaagh! Another quick question. How do I discover what an individual schools budget for SEN is? Can I even find out such a thing?

Don't mean to be the voice of doom but essential for parents to know that just having a statement doesn't change things.
In my experience, it changes very little and as to the idea that all who will deal with your child will have read it.

Even when a statement is appealed, it still is often largely ignored. What you have to remember is that LEAs chirn these stuff out by the score and invariably wording is preety similar in all.
To some extent that is understandable-the problems children have are ones that are experienced by many.

One should not delude oneself that they are tailor made to suit individuals-they aren't. They are churned out from a template and what is said in a meeting with an LEA rep has in most cases barely any relevance to what happens on a day to day basis in a classroom when you are not there.

My own opinion is that most kids learn in spite of how they are taught, not because of it, thus the premise that children can't learn because 'there is something wrong with them is basically flawed from the start.

It puts the onus on them to sort themselves out (God knows how in view of laughable state of special education by and large) as opposed to those teaching.

Some very good advice on these threads, in partic. that about letting them talk, not you, and them justifying themselves.

The point though, moondog, is that the Statement can be made to become tailor-made. I've re-written most of my son's myself and wrt the point about people not reading them, at least you can point to the Statement as the legal document that it is and say 'yes, but you have to do x, y and z cos the Statement says so'. I have used the amending of the Statement more to direct what I want the school to do than to direct even funding at times.

Agreed that it isn't a magic solution but it's as close to it as anything else in the world (the education one, that is).

Our statement is crap in many ways, but there is one line in it that the LA are cursing.

'Professionals will liase with parents on all aspects of educational provision'

You need lougle - there is a bit of their accounts i can't remember what its called where they do a break down - but yes you can just ask the school for it under FOI - the LA should know how much they delegate to a school and how much eg hours 1:1 they expect the school to put in. But in my experience with asd the hours are not here or there its who is delivering the hours and what expertise if any they have in asd and specifically social skills, behaviour techniques, daily living skills etc etc because basically in my LA an outreach teacher goes on say a 1 day NAS course on social skills such that you or i could go on then goes round schools giving out "advice and support" which can just be something printed off a website and calling themselves an expert and then telling everyone the school has been "skilled up to be asd specialists".

Okay. So I don't give them copies of this,that and the other, just keep everything verbal but take lots of notes?
I really am not expecting miracles with the Statement (if DS ever gets one) but the school thinks they will be able to provide more tailored support for DS if we get it and I have to believe that they have his best interests at heart.
I know from bitter experience that much of what is on the IEP's DS currently has is dependent on TA's not being off sick, on holiday or busy with another project. Only last week DS told me he has not had any touch typing lessons at all this term! he is supposed to have one session every week (this has been on his IEP's for at least 2 years)

Yes,it is indeed the best thing to have all things considered, which is why IPSEA argue so ferociously for them but still not a panacea.

Statements used to be given out like lollipops until the true cost of them became apparent as well as the implications if parents decided to chase up woolly promises (see 'Landmark Judgements' on IPSEA websites.)

Now big move to reduce them which I am not personally against, as most are useless. Centre for Policy Studies has an excellent paper on the epidemic of nebulous 'Special Needs' endemic in UK and the lack of accountaBILITY in addressing them.

MOst stuff is pretty shoddy, whether in a statement, IEPorn SA + or whatever other euphemism is currently used by your LEA.

It's shoddy because generally it is not Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relvant and Timebound (SMART)
If it is SMART it will be good if not, it won't. Simple as that.

To compound the issue, parents often fighting for provision that isn't suitable, or, even if available, likely to be of use in improving whatever it is they are concerned about.

Take SALT (my profession). Some parents really believe that spending specific amounts of time 1:1 with a SALT will bring about measurable improvements in their kids' communication.

95% of time it won't. Kids whose communication is compomised need to be with their peers in school as much as possible and for the SALT to help the teacher in the classroom with this. It really wouldn't make any differense if they has 3/4 hours of 1:1 SALT time a week. In many cases, it woudl exacerbate problem.

Quality is not synoymous with quantity.
Generally I notice a strange inverse correlation-the thicker the file, the less anything useful is likely to have been done.

Is there a model that DOES work then moondog? You must surely have come across some good practice in your professional capacity.