Have a meeting with the LEA tomorrow about refused statement. Feel unprepared and worried!

[trunkybun]

I need HELP!!
I have been offered this meeting to discuss their refusal to offer a Statement and I presume to have an opportunity to change this decision before going to Tribunal.
I have copies of all the reports from Ed Psych, SALT, OT's etc (but these are the same reports I sent with my request for Statutory Assesment, so they have already seen them)In addition I have written a list of reasons why I feel he needs a statement and how I feel he will be affected if he doesn't.
The school agree that he does need one, primarily to assist with his social skills, writing, self management and sensory seeking behaviour. But the LEA seem to think that because he has made progress academically SA+ will be enough.
They have issued a 'Note in Lieu' which in itself is quite long and detailed and I would argue would need extra funding for the school to be able to comply!
I have spent hours this morning trawling through the old threads on MN regarding this issue and think now that my document is too wordy/emotional and not concise/punchy enough. Any advice at all, including 'killer' quotes/phrases would be much appreciated.
I have used the IPSEA and SOS SEN websites for advice, but have been unable to get anyone on the phone yet! Also spoke to Parent Partnership whose advice was 'try not to let them intimidate you' GULP!!

'Some parents really believe that spending specific amounts of time 1:1 with a SALT will bring about measurable improvements in their kids' communication.'

This is an interesting point Moondog - sorry to hi-jack!- because parents want this, not unsurprisingly, because the alternative to getting specialist 1:1 help is not actually 'for the SALT to help the teacher in the classroom with this' but to get the 1:1 time with the type of untrained TA that agnes was talking about (supervised obviously by the ASD outreach team who have been on a one day Elkan course).

Can you expand a bit more on what you are suggesting? I am very interested to hear your thoughts. How would that work? Would a SALT spend the time in the classroom instead?

I agree with the frustration you have with generic provision which is far from SMART and which ends up tying up man-hours in provision which may or may not achieve the outcomes required.

I think a large part of this is short-termism. If you understood a child's needs (now and in the future - and the future part is a legal obligation generally overlooked in the SEN process) - and you were not a short-sighted LA moneyman, then you might look for the best provision to do the job and really empower the child to become more independent, more skilled etc. But that is not what happens. Instead, money is fought over and what is obtained is wrestled from the reluctant hands of the LA who end up throwing it at half-baked cheaper options which produce much less in terms of outcomes and a much less independent, self-skilled child.

Just a theory!

Debs You're knowledgable to know that is not just a theory.

Gosh yes, there are tonnes of good people about and the LEA I work with has made huge strides in recognising the failings of this way of working and trying something better.
They are great.

It's a mammoth task though and the point is that people often assume the more peopel involved the better. The reverse is usually true as highly unlikely there will be effective communication between any number greater than 2/3.

As an example, I was asked to assess a child by a teacher (new school to me). Went to file, saw he had had in-depth SALT assessment last year by the colleague I took over from. He is in a newclass this year so only conclusion I can come to (haven't talked to teacher yet) is that she hasn't bothered to look in his MDT file and check on input over last year or so.

When one considers that she only has a handful of kids to deal with and a staffing ratio of maybe 3:1.

So much work can just be of mindlessly rehashing and rewording same tired old stuff.

Trunky, my view is that the way forward is to use principles of ABA (partic. Precision Teaching) to underpin everything. When this happens, change of a stupendous nature really does come about and it is so damned easy to track progress.

For example, I can tell you exaclty what your child's aims are, and how he did in attempting to reach them on a day to day basis and I can tell you this in about 2 minutes flat.

Tis true, I know. It's sad that parents are looked upon as demanding 'more' than necessary, when actually what we are demanding is the right help for our child. Help which will make them as independent as possible as quickly as possible and so reduce the need for support long-term from the public purse.

If you did a life-time cost analysis, a few years of intensive help when it matters, against a life time of crappy low-level support? No contest.

But moondog, how do you do that if you are not working with a child - that sort of progress is what parents are looking for in asking for 1:1 from SALTs not TAs

What I am finding that is odd, is the disparity between what the senior people (to whom I complain regularly) and the people working on the ground.

Everyone in senior positions act all shocked when I tell them that an IEP was set and 'locked' without any liaison with the parents, but the people on the ground say 'oh, what? did you want to be involved? nevermind, it's done now, maybe next time!'

Interesting points Deb and I agree with them all.
Yes, alternative is a poorly trained 1:1 but unless the SALT can put into the 1:1's head and everyday practice the things that she knows will be of benefit to the child, then there is no point.

Unless the person dealing with your child knows what they are doing, forget it. Forget what SENCO says, your top of the range SALT, O/T, ABA consultant and so on. They will visit infrequently, the 1:1 is there all day every day.

My personal solution?
Recognise that training and supporting 1:1s and staff in general is most important job of all. I spend 95% of my therapeutic time in the classroom or offering training to staff and parents, carers, or taking staff with me to see examples of good pracice in other schools.

I mostly teach people how to record data on targets set in a comprehensible uniform manner and how to make decisions based on the data, and data alone, not some half arsed personal view.

I had a wonderful day in school today, reviewing data taken on day to day basis on PECS exchanges by a child. They were very dubious and suspicious but I manged to get them to agree. Over 7 months it has gone from about 3 exchanges to a day to about 200.

Without the data we would never have known how much he has developed and equally, they would never have had the pleasure of seeing tangible evidence of al lthier hard work.

I have charted it all up for them and can't wait to see thier faces when they realise the full implications of this by seeing the near vertical line on the graph.

Parents ask for lots of people and support because their children are being failed by no support, or by the system they are currently in.

If that isn't working, it is hard for parents to challenge the 'how', so they demand more/different and hope that somewhere, someone hits the mark.

'If you did a life-time cost analysis, a few years of intensive help when it matters, against a life time of crappy low-level support? No contest.'

Debs, it's been done and the evidence used successfully in several tribunals when seeking ABA.

That is it exactly debs40. I want the interventions he has now to be tailored to his needs and effective enough for him to become an independent(ish) learner through his Secondary School years.
These last 2 years of Primary school seem so critical, as he is still motivated to learn. Which I fear he wont be if he continues to struggle on with inconsistent support and failing strategies.

Thasnks Moondog, that is really interesting. I can completely see what you mean. It is establishing that training and oversight, under the responsibility as someone as effective and committed as yourself, which is the problem.

For most, oversight and training of 1:1s will be little more than a fob-off.

Your point fits in with what Agnes is saying about the expertise of those involved with the child. This is crucial.

We keep getting told about our local ASD outreach team as if there some emergency 24 hour presence who will know your child like the back of their hand. The reality? They run on a referral basis and it can take months before some old dear tootles down to school to talk visual timetables and bang on about 'theory of mind' before tootling off in to the sunset again!

'Debs, it's been done and the evidence used successfully in several tribunals when seeking ABA.'

Not in mine. I was fighting a panel as well as the LA, who followed the religion of Eclectic Extremism evangelically!

When are you coming to Herts Moondog?

Well I'm not trying to pass myself of as perfect, i just do my best with what I know and having been through all of this shit myself as a parent, I preface every case with

'What would I want if this was mini Moondog?'

I can understand why there is a referral process-we physically can't deal with every potential case at once (in my case, it would run into hundreds of kids, all of whom have families, OTs, Physios, teachers, 1:1s, Ed. Psychs and so on to liase with.

But it means that a service is reactive instad of proactive. If we were to offer a meaningful menu of training, drop ins (for small concerns to be addressed or just for parents to drop in for a reassuring chat)teach people how to take data properly so we can monitor programmes in our absence (I have a lot of data sent to me electronically-sop effective and slashes costs by about 99%) then we wouldn't have so many referrals.

But if we didn't have so many referrals, then peopel might say the service was no longer needed or could be cut.

So there we remain in a Kafkaesque situation where max. amount of referrals are encourages (looks great in a flashy manger's meeting as part of a powerpoint presentation) yet very little done to deal effectively with the very problems that necessitate referrals.

It is barking, completely and utterly barking.

Stark your LEA and PCT sound utterly utterly barking.
They really do.

For example, in bigger establishments, I set up systems whereby any parent at all of a child in that place has an opportunity to see me on nine different occasions throughuot the year, for training or drop ins. This is in addition to my bread and butter in the classroom stuff.

Whether they do or not is up to them ,.but the offer is there and noone can then say 'We never see her from one review to the next.'

If you want me, come to me, I am here.
That's my message.

Sure, - I got a written response to my request for the Autism Advisory service to set some targets and use evidence-based practice.

The response: 'You will be invited to the next professionals meeting where we will discuss evidence-based practice and who's responsibility it is'

So yes, - barking!

Yes, I saw that particular gem.

FFS. That is a disgrace.

I'd pass that on as a complaint myself (amidst 100s of others) or at least FAO chief exec. pointing out that this is how his staff view EBP.

Off the point , but what's Elklan training about Moondog? That's what SALT has recommended for TAs.

Oh Moondog I won't be letting it go. Not that or any of the other daft things.

But I do need to always keep in mind ds' needs right now and the best way of getting them met and I have some other powerful emails 'out there' that I can't keep adding to them every week or it weakens the case for now iyswim.

TBH, the problem now is that our LA have been so stupid and ignorant and I've called them on it, and lost the particular channel I chose. They have no reason to do things properly as they have got away with shoddy provision thus far. Unfortunately for them, us not winning our tribunal means they have had further opportunity to fuck up.

Unfortunately for me, their mistakes will never be fully realised because whilst I can illustrate their stupidity 100 times over, I will not let ds fail enough for it to have maximum impact.

Although rather than continue to fight with these particular people, we are bailing out and using ds' statement to get him (and dd) into one of the top schools in the County.

So you see, statements can be useful in a different way!

Moondog, I really agree with you that the best 'use of resources' , in LA speak, is the training of the school staff, be it TAs or teachers. That's why I haven't fought for more direct SALT - most of his SALT time is between SALT and TA - far more effective for my son.

Fingers crossed Star.
Sometimes a fuck up at one stage is a silver lining.

The monumental shambles of my own case eventually led me to something far better than I ever dreamt possible.

Yes, Giveme, a good plan. I try very hard to inculcate a sense of pride and professionalism in the TAs I work with, telling them they are doing the hardest work of all (they are) and that we need the best peopel in this challenging work, people who truly are special.

It isn't empty words, I believe it and know it to be true.Investment in well trained TAs would be so cost effective. I work with some staggeringly talented TAs, who have taught me a great deal.

Debs, Elklan is great, a step in the right direction and very user friendly. All the manuals are full of handy information and very easy to read. It explains complex stuff in an understandable.

I don't think it is appropriate for kids with ASD type disorders though. That needs a completely different approach.

Thanks Moondog. That is my worry.

I completely see the sense in leaving TAs with a proper plan overseen by an experienced SALT, after having been given appropriate training and being instilled with a sense of confidence and expertise.

BUT.....my situation is hit and run. Leave the TAs to it. We'll see what they're doing three times a year and we'll send the staff on Elklan courses.

He is AS and has good technical language skills. His social use of language is poor, in fact he will barely speak to someone he doesn't know. His anxiety is palpable. Neither can he problem solve etc and will end up in 'scraps' as the SALT herself said without support.

Our SALT thinks he's at risk of exclusion /school refusal
eventually as things get tougher e.g. secondary school and that money properly spent at this stage is money well-spent.

But this is what is on offer.....[hsad] How do I make the best of it?

Sorry, op, have hijacked your thread. I really hope your meeting goes well and that you will come and tell us how you got on.

Debs, it's hard and not all fault of individual SALTs. As i said earlier, they (we) have such huge caseloads that something like this is considered quite a good package.

What can you do you say?

Make sure goals are SMART. As I said earlier

' Most stuff is pretty shoddy, whether in a statement, IEP or SA + or whatever other euphemism is currently used by your LEA.

It's shoddy because generally it is not Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relvant and Timebound (SMART)
If it is SMART it will be good if not, it won't. Simple as that.'

I got ONE SMART target out of 3 duff. It goes like this:

Turn-taking: DS will attend turntaking activity for 10 minutes at 8:55 each morning'

Success criteria: DS will be able to turn take for 10 minutes.

_

FFS. DS can attend most activities for 10 mins, if not 3 hours. How the feck do we know whether his turn taking has improved?