Retained reflexes - any info please?

[siblingrivalry]

Hi

Recently I have read a few things on here about retained reflexes.
DD1 is 9 and has AS and dyspraxia, but I had never heard of RR. I would love any information anyone has about it because a few of the things I have read about seem to be applicable to dd.

Many thanks in advance.

Bump

Have a lot of info on this as DS1 has just started an OT course to retrain his retained reflexes. He is also 9 and is dyspraxic. Can't write now as watching DS2 but will try to come on later and give you more info. His OT is an NLP practitioner - if you google NLP for retained reflexes you should find out more.

Hi Sibling,

Here's what I know and an answer from a diff thread:

There seems to be two main approaches to curing retained reflexes.

1. Body Brushing

1. sensory integration programme

I have had a quote for £600 pounds for the sensory integration programme, and have been told it normally takes 3 - 6 months of 10 minutes a day. I am planning to start this this summer holidays with my elder DS who definately has retained reflexes.

You said you have used a body brushing technique. Can you tell me a rough price and time scale? Did your child like it / hate it? Was it hard to get them to do it every day?

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Hi.

We used the body brushing as per your link. Have been doing about 10 mins twice a day since August and are very close to finishing!

It is not cheap. DS returns for checks on his progress every 4 to 6 weeks and it is a couple of hundred pounds a visit. BUT, it is so worth it. We are not wealthy but decided once we had had the initial assessment that we would do it, come hell or high water!

There have been times when DS has got fed up oof the brushing particularly if he is tired but the routines do vary.

It really has helped him enourmously.

He also listens to a cd for 10 mins a night; hhe seemed not to be catching things that were said to him but he is different boy know. The guy we see (and you know who that is) really knows his stuff.

I wish you and your son all the best. My chap started at 6. Thank God for the treatment- it is amazing how something as simple as body brushing works!

Hi again
Our OT's website is at www.multisensoryinterventions.co.uk
It gives info about the various retained reflexes and the effects they have. She works according to the principles of the INNP
(Institute for Neuro-Physiological Psychology)which you can also google. Hope this helps. We're at the very beginning of the course, so too early to say if it's working, but I have high hopes.

We have been using INPP practitioner since last August-real progress now in all areas esp language, behaviour and crossing midline is now soarted (was dire). Expensive but worth it imo. Exercises only take few minutes a day and while the ride can be a bit bumpy (terrible behaviour when integrating moro reflex for a few weeks)all settled after a while.
Sphil-bice to see you around-havent seen you on here for ages and was wondering how you were getting on with inpp stuff-let me know how you get on but if its early days dont get disheartened-took around 8 months before we saw real improvements...
HTH

Thanks sphil and Indigo, that'a really useful stuff. I'm going to have a look at the links after the school run.

Hi Oddgirl
We've had the full assessment, which showed Ds1 to be mildly/moderately dyspraxic in most areas with a few severe scores in the TLR area and visual tracking. The OT has given him a simple rolling exercise to do - takes 3 mins every day! We see her again at the end of next week.

Could be a coincidence but Ds1's running has really improved - I watched him in time trials for sports day and although he came last (as usual!) it wasn't by so much and his running style looked more normal, rather than as if he was running through treacle.
He's also started getting really good marks for mental maths - something he always struggled with because of slow processing.

Very reassuring that you have seen improvements - would be good to keep in touch.

What normally happens with the retained primitive reflexes is that they are overlaid by more complex movement patterns as particular areas of cortex mature and develop. The fact that a child still displays them is a sign that this has not happened satisfactorily.

The reflexes are there for a reason, for instance, lets take a look at the 'asymmetric tonic neck reflex.' When you place a child on his tummy, this reflex has the effect of pushing the child in a specific direction, dependent upon which way his head is facing as one arm becomes outstretched. This is how the brain learns to experience how movement feels. After many repetitions of this the brain begins to build movement patterns which are more complex and away the child goes, - crawling. They are there for a reason and the only reliable method for trying to remove them is to use them for the purpose for which they were designed.

would agree with the others -also recommend retained reflexes and therapeutic listening. we found sensory trained OT from list of qualified sensory OTS on internet.

really helped coordination, being more happy and being more invovlved in things. money well spent

Thanks again, everyone -had more useful info in these posts than in the hour I spent on Google!

DD has been referred back to OT but the waiting list is horrendous so I think we will be going private. I will be printing off this thread to read and absorb in peace later.

As a matter of interest, would the 'startle' reflex be included in this? I only ask because dd still had this reflex when she was almost a year and even now will physically jump when she is approached unexpectedly, or if she hears a loud noise.

Yes, retaining the startle reflex (Moro reflex) causes anxiety (or so I've been told). This is the main one I want to get rid of for my boy.

Indigo and sibling-yes inhibition of the moro has been major breakthrough for DS-for DS much calmer behaviour after inhibiting this and much less distractible in the classroom-we did have to effectively go through a period of the Terrible Twos with a 5 year old though but apparently terrible twos is an important developmental milestone whic DS didnt go through at the appropriate age. Inhibition of this also seemed to have an almost domino effect on inhibiting some of the grasping reflexes which affect speech as language showed big improvement about 6 weeks later-could be coincidence of course...

I've been thinking of doing this for a while and after reading this am now convinced we need to. I looked at the INPP website to try and find a local practitioner but with no success. Is there somewhere I can find a reputable one, or does anyone know of a good one in Surrey?

Sorry to hijack, I'm finding this thread very intriguing.

I can ask our therapist if you like?

There is a group of OTS who run hemispheres ot which has a base in Surrey I think-seem to use same techniques & principles as INPP-but I have no personal experience of them in particular so wouldnt say I could personally recommend or not.
But would highly recommend reflex inhibition in general.

Hi sphil, yes please, that'd be great.

oddgirl, I'll look into that. Stupid question but is retained relexes the same as reflex inhibition?

Thx

Yep-basically if you have retained primitive reflexes you need to inhibit them to move onto the next stage of development. Whilst many people can live with retained reflexes, life is not easy for them as they are constantly compensating for these reflexes still being present. The theory is once you integrate these unwanted reflexes (ie effectively get rid of them), more complex so called postural reflexes can then automatically come in helping a child concentrate, visually track, balance etc far more effectively.
As madgebettany says we use great inpp person in Hertford who has a London base but I am sure there must be a practitioner near you.
Glad things going well with Ann madgebettany-she has been hugely helpful and very patient with DS.
HTH

Thanks both of you. We're more SW London way so Hampshire is quite far, although do-able. I've looked on the INPP website and I can't find where you look for local practitioners. Am I being a total prat? If you could point me in the right direction I'd really appreciate it.

I'm looking here;
www.inpp.org.uk/index.php

TIA

mumgoing crazy-we did what madgebettany did or you could google refelex inhibition and see who pops up-many inpp practitioners will have trained at their centre in Chester but may not actually use INPP in their title-look out for the inpp logo...

madgebettany-thats really interesting as we have only just got to a similar exercise-thats probably a reflection of the different issues of our children-we started with simple log rolling...we are now doing a helicopter rotation exercise...from what I can remember these rotaional exercises help to address vestibular and balance issues and often once blance is sorted reflexes naturally start to inhibit as thats what happens in utero and post natally. The crossing over of arms and legs does seem to suggest a moro thing though but we did it slightly differently with DS sitting cross legs and arms in foetal poisition then slowly bending head forward and back.

Persevere with exercises-often DS couldnt initially do something but suddenly got better as vestibular issues sorted themselves...

mumgoingcrazy - if in London try sound learning centre. Their NDP program is for retained reflexes.

I know what you mean-my DH thinks ita all voodoo-have read excerpts from Sally Goddards books but was thinking I might get it too.
I really do see such a dramatic improvement in DS (and he has some serious issues to contend with) that it gives me hope. At the start DS couldnt even shut his eyes or stick his tongue out to order-the messaging just wasnt there but after a few weeks with Ann can now do this with no problem. Visual tracking is now excellent and balance is improving and it was absolutely dire. Car sickness has stopped.
Anyway keep in touch as its nice to see how they are both doing!

Thanks very much for this info, I'll do some googling when I can tear myself off mumsnet. Out of interest DD2 (3.1yr), her vestibular is so poor that she has only just started to walk using a kaye walker, and is seriously fearful of all movement ie rolling, sit to stand etc. Literally shakes with fright, she is also too fearful to get into her walker herself and needs to be placed in it.

We've got an appointment at GOSH in Sept to have her vestibular assessed but do you think this therapy could significantly help her? I know I'm putting you on the spot, but I'm interested to know what you think.

Thx again