Retained reflexes - any info please?

[siblingrivalry]

Hi

Recently I have read a few things on here about retained reflexes.
DD1 is 9 and has AS and dyspraxia, but I had never heard of RR. I would love any information anyone has about it because a few of the things I have read about seem to be applicable to dd.

Many thanks in advance.

[IndigoBell]

You will have to do something!

Sensory integration training helped ds with his vestibular system. Ot gave us 4 sessions but I think really he needs more.

However what I'm not sure is what the relationship between reatained reflexes therapy and sensory integration training. I think they are related...

[nightcat]

Do any of the clinics offer any dvd with exercises to do at home?

[mumgoingcrazy]

DD2 has had sensory integration since she was 11 months with weekly OT (although it's not weekly anymore, more like once a month), what has brought her on more than anything so far is the Therapeutic Listening program (3 lots of it so far) and BIBIC therapy. She has definately improved, but until her vestibular improves dramatically she won't come on physically.

Although she has GDD I feel her vestibular is the big issue, I'm quite desperate now which is why I'll do retained reflexes I think.

[MardyPig]

mumgoingcrazy we are in SW London/Surrey borders and ds2 has a lovely private OT who would definitely be able to help with vestibular stuff. She has a big frame in her room which she can hang various things on - frequently uses a platform or a hammock for ds2 to stand or lie in and do various other activities. She has also lent me a book on retained reflexes which I am ploughing through. It was her who identified ds2's retained spinal Galant reflex.

I am happy to give you her details if you like. I know of another practise near(ish) to us who could help if she is too busy.

[oddgirl]

Indigobell-someone once explained to me that reflex inhibition is the fudamental thing to get right first...the reason sensory integration has some benefit isit helps children to use compensating mechanisms more effectively so bypassing the primitive reflex problem-sensory integration concentrates on devleloping the postural reflexes which should naturally occur once primitive reflexes disappear. So whilst sensory integration is great and has its place it tends to be better as a secondary therapy after the fundamental reflexes have been shut down so you are using it to further develop the child rather than simply teach them better compensation techniques. Most reflex practitioners seem to think this is why things like Brain Gym/Dore programme partly work becauyse they develop postural reflexes but they dont fully work until primitive reflexes have gone.
Does this make any sense at all???
Its a bit like putting a plaster on a massive cut-it might work for a bit but doesnt really solve the problem.

HTH

[IndigoBell]

Oddgirl - thanks. Makes sense to me. Hope you're right!

We're starting Retained Reflex therapy at the sound learning centre on Wed. Fingers crossed it will solve a large part of DS's problems. (And not result in a daily battle of wills to get him to co-operate)

Just today he asked me to squeeze his hands because he didn't know where they were

[oddgirl]

Well to give you hope-DS was similar-now can correctly respond to more complex stuff like "touch your right elbow with your left hand". Good luck-keep us all posted.

[sphil]

Mumgoingcrazy - sorry, our OT is in Singapore atm, so can't ask her! Going away for two weeks tomorrow, but if you're still looking when I get back I'll ask her.

For the first time EVER Ds1 didn't come last in his Sports Day race. He came 6th out of 8, but was well up in the main 'pack' of runners and his running style has improved so much - didn't look as if he was running through treacle. Think some of the other parents wondered why I was so ecstatic about a 6th place!

[mumgoingcrazy]

Yes please Mardypig, I'd love to have the details pls. SW London/Surrey is more our area. Thank you.

The more I hear the more I know we should do this. I spoke to my OT about it and apparently a few people have asked them about retained reflexes so they're looking at all going on a course! Result if this will soon be NHS.

Everything you all say sounds so encouraging. Thanks.

[MardyPig]

hi mumgoingcrazy I tried to contact you via mumsnet but it said you wouldn't allow it. Can you change your options or give an e-mail address? thanks

[mumgoingcrazy]

Hi Mardypig, it's mumgoingcrazy @ Yahoo . co . uk

Thanks very much, I called INPP today and the dr there said there are no practitioners in Surrey and to go up to Chester. So would be very interested in seeing yours.

I'm assuming not all need to be INPP licentiates.

Thank you

[mumgoingcrazy]

Thank you Madge, I'll have a look in a bit

Mardypig, I've tried to call yours a couple of times but never any answer. Is it ok to use the mobile you gave me?

Another question, last week I filled in the INPP questionnaire and sent it to Dr Peter Blythe and I have just received his response which was that they only really treat children over the age of 7, and as DD2 is only 3.1yrs it's not suitable for her yet.

Is retained reflexes for the over 7's??

Thank you ........ again

[MardyPig]

Sounds funny to only start at 7 to me. I'm sure I remember my OT saying the opposite - some OTs (not her) refuse to treat kids who are over about 7 or 8 as they say they are past help .

I hope I didn't send the wrong number. Do try the mobile if necessary.

[mumgoingcrazy]

I would have definately thought the opposite as well, he said as they can't be sure whether it's retained reflexes because she is so young, it didn't warrant a visit up there.

Will definately keep trying your OT as she is the nearest one (still 40 mins away) and I thought early intervention was key

Thanks

[LeslieKline]

Hello: thank you for our very useful posts.

We have decided that the best way to to for our 13-year old is to try the reflex inhibition through the brusing technique. Can someone recommend a INPP licenced practicioner in London, not too expensive?

I also heard that the Dore therapy is not being used anymore. Anyone has information about this?

Finally but most important, what is the difference between the brushing technique and the INPP method?

Many thanks for your answers.

[jabberwocky]

mumgoingcrazy, ds1 started brushing at just turned 4 years. I hadn't heard or read anything about 3 being too young

[IndigoBell]

I can't recommend a brushing technique - but can higly recommend the sound learning centre's retained reflexes program (neuro development program)

My boy's been on it about 10 week and everyone has noticed the improvement in him (even the school receptionist and his hairdresser). The exercises have been easy to do and only take about 10 minutes a day.
It costs £600.

I believe the dore program is based on the same principles as this program - so if you were considering dore (which costs about £2k) give Sound Learning Centre a ring...

[LeslieKline]

Thank you, IndigoBell.

Please refer to Oddgirl comment on Sun 25-ju very important. I have some neuro studies background and it sounds logical (given the lack of scientific background)to do the primitive reflexes inhibition before doing sensory integration -as far as I understand Sensory Integration is what the Sound learning center does.

We will probably do the Sound Learning Centre as phase two.

Someone knows and affordable brushing therapist in the London area?

Thanks

[IndigoBell]

Leslie - The neuro development program by sound learning centre is for primitive reflexes inhibition. My boy's Moro reflex went down from 88% to 36% in 6 weeks.

They spent about 2 hours testing all his reflexes, and gave us a report with a score from 0 - 100 on each one. 6 weeks later at the check up they retested the reflexes and we got another score for each one.

Over all his reflexes after 6 weeks he'd gone down from 69% to 54% - so huge progress.

Because such a vast improvment was made in his Moro reflex the changes in him are very noticeable. Just done his IEP this morning with his teacher - and since July he's made a whole years progress in some subjects!

[Minx179]

Odd girl Sun 25.07.10 13.59

We were given similar info by the Behavioural Optometrist that we used for ds2's retained reflexes and Vision Therapy.

Dealing with Retained Reflexes was described to me as being similar to putting a plaster cast on a broken bone; a number of other options are similar to putting a broken bone in a bandage. While it may not totally 'fix' the problem it is currently one of the best options around.

Essentailly a number of therapies which are judged to 'help' actually mask the underlying difficulties the child experiences for example coloured overlays can be overprescribed for children with LD's; they are an easier/cheaper option for families/schools to use, while they may appear to enable children to read, but as soon as the overlay is removed the child can no longer read, or read as well. The overlay masks the problem, but it doesn't 'solve' it.
This is not to say that overlays are not of benefit to some children/adults.

I don't think you have to wait until the child is 7 to start Retained Reflex Therapy, my ds started at 6; though he couldn't start VT until he was 7. Unless it maybe due to the fact that at 3 you may end up doing the exercises 'to' him rather than him doing the exercises 'for' himself, IYSWIM

[LeslieKline]

Indigo- I believe then there are two techniques to integrate the retained reflexes:
1-Body brushing, with the brush
2- Sound Learning Centre (based on INPP method) that works with mouvements.

I would like to explore the first, because I have heard from Steven Clarke - trained at INPP and developer of the brushing technique -for years. Very sadly he died on 2004 and his book is impossible to get (someone may have?).

[DebbieSolloway]

Sphil,

Did the INPP assessment find your Ds1 to be mildly/moderately dyspraxic in most areas... ?

we did an assessment too, son has most reflexes retained in full measure. But she did not say dyspraxic or anything. I am anxious in case she missing something?

[Wheatley]

I did a reflex integration programme with my son 5 years ago and the differences were amazing even after 3 weeks in, I am so convinced that this can help children and so am now helping to promote the person who helped me. She is producing an online programme which has skype support, I really hope it does well, cheers

[Amicia]

Has anyone tried Johansen Sound Therapy with 14 year old boy's? Or INPP