EHCP process and dealing with EBSA for 2 children at the same time

[MumofMaskers]

I’m looking for advice from anyone who has gone through the EHCP process for two children at the same time, while managing their needs and EBSA. I thought I could handle it with one but now it's both and I am not equipped to deal.

They are both masking at school but struggling significantly at home. We are either in EBSA territory or heading there with both of them (DD7 is on reduced timetable since before Christmas, DS5 now struggling to do full days most days).

They have different presentations but both probably ASD/ADHD and sensory challenges. Both hold it together in school to some degree and then unravel at home. They have big feelings and have both expressed in different ways that they want to die or have tried to hurt themselves, which is very scary at their young ages. My son in particular is exhibiting unsafe behaviours and we had an incident which led to my daughter being harmed and needing to remove all sharp objects in our house a few weeks ago. I am exhausted and often the recipient of his aggression before we get out of the door in the morning.

At the moment I feel like I am juggling SEND paperwork, chasing a small school with a one-day-a-week SENCO, trying to evidence needs that aren’t always visible in class, managing reduced attendance, doing bits of home learning, and regulating two dysregulated children.

Because they aren’t “causing problems” in class, I don’t always feel taken seriously. There’s a constant undertone of “they seem fine here.” Meanwhile I’m picking them up after an hour some days and feeling like I’ve failed at basic parenting and schooling.

We applied for an ECHNA for my daughter before Xmas and had a meeting with the LA a while back, following refusal to assess. On hearing what is happening with my son they said we should start the EHCNA process for him too. I know this is probably right. But I can't get any time with the school to discuss a plan.

Has anyone navigated two EHCP processes at once? How did you manage the admin and advocacy without burning out completely? How did you evidence needs when your children masked in school? Did things get worse before they got better?

I also have moments where I think about home educating just to remove the daily trauma, but realistically I don’t think that’s sustainable for our family long-term, and I worry about losing access to support altogether.

I suppose I’m asking both for practical advice and some reassurance from people further down the line. How do you get through this phase without losing your mind?

Sorry this is long and rambling.

I'm sure it is fobbing off but it is hard to keep on sitting in meetings where you are made to question your reality and you're continually told your child doesn't meet the threshold/criteria for services anywhere. The last few days both of the kids have been refusing to do class activities (they are both on reduced timetables and doing a bit of classroom time) and using words like 'you can't force me, daddy said' and now I feel like they think we are permissive parents.

It's all ok. I knew this would happen, just feels like such a slog, now having to prepare to appeal again and next month we find out if my daughter will be issues an EHCP or not. The OT report we got has already been rejected so I'm not hopeful.

Your situation is so similar to mine. I spent 3 years going in to a meeting knowing what I wanted, a lot of talking but then leaving with nothing agreed and feeling like I’m the problem. I sent an email to the SEND governor and head teacher explaining issues and that I was unhappy with the lack of support for my kids, the headteacher replied saying none of what I said was true. I never wanted to rock the boat as I see everywhere online that keeping a good relationship with the school is vital. But there wasn’t a good relationship to begin with as it was constantly ignored emails and being fobbed off. I switched any meetings with the school to zoom meetings, which helped me because I wasn’t in their territory so I felt more confident, and started making sure someone was with me on those meetings. Something else I did that may be frowned upon but not illegal.. for the last 2 meetings I took a covert audio recordings. As long as you keep the audio private, off social media etc it’s allowed. You can turn that into a transcript and then it can be used as evidence. The statements the school make when they’ve not had time to prepare a written response is usually the most telling. I actually sent an email after the last meeting , just bullet points confirming what adjustments I asked for, whether the adjustments were agreed and if not the reason why. Including several adjustments that the SENCO said she couldn’t provide because they didn’t have enough staff to facilitate. The SENCO replied denying she had said that. Without the recording and transcript it would have been my word vs the schools. But I now have evidence the school are unable to support my son due to staffing constraints. Which I’m hoping will be helpful now that the school told the LA they can meet his needs. I resulted to recording meetings not to catch anyone out, but to have a record after years and years of school denial, twisting what was said and putting words in my mouth.

SENDIST will consider all evidence even if the LA acts unlawfully. Remind the LA it isn’t lawful for them to refuse to accept independent assessments just because they are independent. They must consider all evidence. See Reg 7 - the ‘any’ in the Regs means ‘all’.

How can I best do that - at appeal? This is happening all the time with our LA at the moment - they accept the easy bits of the report that basically don't cost money, and then say the needs can be met through ordinarily available provision, staff training etc.

Yes, unfortunately, many have to appeal to secure a good EHCP. It happens across the country, I’m afraid.

Just wondering what would happen if I deregistered and EHE both children while trying to get them EHCPs? I've had mixed advice about this and whether it's doable. I'd really like a breather from the daily trauma and school battle, for them and me. Have just had a really annoying email from the school about her timetable for the week and saying after talking to the EP when she was in to observe my daughter 'we really need to be increasing her time in school'. I have actually asked for a meeting already to discuss this and the support that would need to be put in place to achieve it but all they want to do is increase the time, which isn't support. I'd expressed reservations about this week as she'll have to be there for break time, which she hasn't done since November, and I'm being made to feel like I'm trying to keep her off. My son isn't responding well to the reduced timetable either. I want it all to stop.

https://www.ipsea.org.uk/getting-temporary-education-put-in-place?fbclid=IwdGRzaARQrfVjbGNrBFCtyGV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHi8sQW3ppXLq5Hck6qWZfIXIz2K8MsOCIq4WxvGm4a5kJiYtyI0LNuLnJ1Sd_aem_AqQObOx8Tz0uyM3uAKpUEw

Sorry for long link. I wonder if you can keep them off, not deregister them and request Section 19?

I keep hearing it's impossible to get especially if you don't have an EHCP. Also they can attend a bit (1.5/2 hours a day) - would that mean they wouldn't be eligible?

Is deregistering them really likely to harm their chances of getting an EHCP? What is the reason for this?

If DC can’t attend school full-time, it isn’t impossible. Many have to enforce provision, but you can do that. Attending 1.5-2hrs per day doesn’t prevent AP being made as well as or instead of. 7.5hrs-10hrs per week is not a suitable full-time education.

Personally, I wouldn’t deregister and EHE. Crudely, at the moment, you are someone’s problem. If you deregister and EHE, it is easier for professionals to sweep DC’s needs under the carpet. If you EHE you relieve the LA of their duty to provide a suitable full-time education. If you EHE, the LA is also more likely to refuse to issue a good EHCP naming your preferred placement because they know a proportion of parents will continue to EHE rather than appeal.

Ok - but if we know our end goal is to secure suitable provision and keep appealing? That we aren't EHE long term, just to keep everyone sane for now?

I have heard the someone's problem argument before. I just don't think I've got the strength for all this.

You might know that is your end goal, you might tell the LA it is, but they LA will bank on a proportion of parents not doing so even if they say they will.

Thanks so much for all of the advice. We've decided after a lot of soul searching and some difficult conversations with the school, that we will deregister my daughter and EHE for now, there doesn't seem to be any other way. We will continue the EHCP process and see how far we can get. I think we will probably do the same for my son soon but my husband wants to give it a bit more time first.

I'm not happy that we've ended up here and not by choice, but feel relatively positive now about giving this a go and it doesn't have to be forever.

De-registering children is an extremely risky move. I always advise against it because of the repercussions.

De-registering your children to EHE will mean that the LA has no duty to provide education for your children. You won't get a specialist school and the LA won't look for one. You end up screwing yourself over. I cant express strongly enough NOT to de-register your children.

Unfortunately I don't think I have the resources for the likely years long fight it would take to get the right provision for either of my children. For our situation, this feels like the only available option right now.

@MumofMaskers Welcome to the ehe world. I’m sorry you’ve been forced here too , for very similar reasons to us. However, i have to say I can’t regret it, our son is still struggling in many ways and some days it feels like we go one step forward & 3 back BUT our life is sooooo sooo much better than when we were fighting all the systems & dealing with weekly visits from school etc.

the whole system is broken snd totally not fit for purpose. I’m worried about the new regulations coming in for ehe but time will tell how they develop. Over all it’s the best decision we have made since adopting our ds.

we do have tribunal booked for May 27 to fight for special school but I’m not convinced it’s worth fighting for right now in all honesty. I think he will struggle wherever he is and think ehe might be what he needs for a few more years. But we’re keeping our options open for now.

we’ll done for taking control, it isn’t an easy decision & it isn’t an easy path but for some of us it is def the right one!!

best things I’ve done read any of Naomi fishers books & join HEFA on face book

good luck & I’m happy for pm if can help! I’ve just written my first LA response

it sucks that our hands are forced but we’re choosing our Children’s well-being over broken systems …… how can that be wrong…,., stressful … hell yes…. But not wrong!! 🩷

@Seahorsesplendour thank you - a week in and it's going quite well, although very aware it's a novelty at the moment! I can see a big change in my daughter, and generally feel a sense of relief in myself. It definitely isn't easy but for now it feels like the right thing, it felt like the only option in a lot of ways. I can totally relate to what you say about your son and although it sounds like it's still challenging, I hope it feels like you have a bit less on your plate without the daily school battles.

I know what you mean about keeping options open - we should hear by the end of the month if she will get an EHCP but based on the kinds of things the EP was saying after she visited her at school I'm not hopeful - she was applying a totally different lens to the behaviour she was seeing when my daughter was hiding and refusing to take part in lessons and said she was being controlling.

I've spoken to a lot of people and researched her profile in depth since we got her diagnosis last year and the answer was always home ed is where you end up with children like her, and once we made the decision to deregister it suddenly seemed completely obvious. We have said let's try it for a year and see where it goes, and we will keep pushing forward the EHCP process in the meantime. Like you I'm wondering if any school, even specialist, would suit her, especially as there only seems to be one or two in the whole area that might be the right fit anyway.

My son is doing a bit better at the moment, so we will keep pushing forward the process for him, he's still on a reduced timetable but gradually increasing it and he seems to be managing, the support they've put in place is helping and he's generally calmer and more manageable at home. I do feel the sense of conflict having one at home and one in school, and it's a shame we won't get all of the benefits like term time holidays for now! But he's younger, we still don't fully understand his needs yet and whether school can work for him, I think when he goes into year 1 it will become clearer.

All you can do is keep trying to find the best solution day to day and work with what you think your children and you as a family can manage. I did struggle with a lot of feelings of resentment that we have been forced into this but I'm already feeling more positive and can see a lot of benefits and opportunities for my daughter, which is better than feeling angry and stuck I guess.

Sorry this is a really long message, maybe we should take this off here and we can support each other in these early days! Yes, the HEFA guides have been a saviour and waiting for first LA contact, I hope your report went ok, have you heard back yet? I hope your LA is a good one, I know it can be mixed.

Just so you are aware and can make an informed decision, for when you have an EHCP, if it is inappropriate for provision to be made in school, there are options other than EHE.

Yes - have been looking into EOTAS too, it just sounds so hard to get. We're a very long way from that as it's currently proving so difficult to get professionals to see and understand my daughter's needs. Private EP next month which I really hope will shed some light and not be skewed by the LA which is the challenge we've had with the one who's seen her as part of the EHCNA process. I've been making notes about all the things I've noticed she struggles with. So much of it is anxiety around getting things wrong and perfectionism I think.

Many have to appeal to get EOTAS/EOTIS, but it is possible to secure if it is inappropriate for provision to be made in school.

I have 2 DSs with EOTAS/EOTIS and have supported others to secure it too.

Just thought I'd come back with an update - we've now, as expected based on the LA EP report, had Refusal to Issue. So back to tribunal we go. Will now have two appeals running, one for my son's refusal to assess and one for my daughter's refusal to issue. Private EP booked for a few weeks, so hoping that will really help us.

I'm sorry to hear that.

These local authorities need to take a long hard look at themselves and start supporting parents and children, not putting barriers in their way.

Hopefully the private EP report will be helpful.

The independent EP visited today - my son at school, then my daughter at home. Won't get the reports for a few weeks, but it was very enlightening. He is going to recommend EOTAS for my daughter which I had expected. Daunted by the fight I know this will be, but it's validating to hear this from an expert.

My son is still so young and we need a bit more time to see how he copes in KS1 with increased demands etc. So for now his report will hopefully support him getting an EHCP, and we will see if he can be supported in mainstream.

A long fight but today feels like a bit of a way forward at least.

I’m glad the EP was helpful. You must be exhausted! One EP assessment is draining enough.

A word of warning, be careful how much you say to the LA about EOTAS/EOTIS before you have agreement to issue. If they know you will be seeking a comprehensive EOTAS/EOTIS package, the LA has a greater incentive to refuse to issue to kick the can down the road. Not saying that happens in all cases, but certainly in some.