EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

Thank you! They have said they will issue - that was the 23 April. Is there another step inbetween that and the draft arriving? 4 weeks seems a long time to still be waiting for the draft… which worries me.

thank you for sharing your experience - always helpful to read!

Ah @Paintingflowers so if you’ve been told they are issuing you are in the same place as us! So I’ve been told local authorities are not actually in breach of the rules until they fail to give you the draft 15 days before the final issue deadline, as they have to allow parents 15 days to review the draft under the rules, if that makes sense. So they will be acting unlawfully once you reach 20 weeks -15 days and have no draft.

@Onceuponatimethen and @Paintingflowers I'm a little further on from you then, but I didn't receive the draft or final on time. I had bigger fish to fry though so didn't stress too much..

Heard from our tutoring company to ofsy, seems ok but they've said I must be home for online tutoring.

I'm home 1 day a week and can possibly manage the odd afternoon but I need to work, I'm so annoyed. I hate leaving DD and she's certainly better when I'm here but she also enjoys the time when the house is quiet, with just the cat for company.

Will wait yo see who they give her for tutoring but if they insist on me being here then it's not going to work.

I'm toying with the idea of emailing the caseworker and trying to get across that I can't be asked to facilitate the learning, and that I've already found a much better option to or DD which is cheaper than what they've offered and is much more suited to her needs...I doubt they'll consider it though.

Or let it fail and use it as evidence for tribunal. I really dont want it to fail though, DD needs something to work.

That's mad @Icantpeopleanymore - I suppose it's a safeguarding thing but as you say, parents can't be required to supervise learning, any more than you could be required to go and sit in a school. And the tutoring should be provided in a a safe way - they need to work out what that is.

I hate the assumption with SEN that all the mums (and to a lesser extent, dads) are sitting around. We were recommended New Forest (ADHD) and Cygnet (ASD) parenting programmes provided by the LA, by the NHS paediatrician a few years ago. We were eventually offered them but they are day time only, term time, in person, and on the same day each week.

I'm a secondary school teacher and DH is a university lecturer. We've both got reasonable employers, but we can hardly take 4 Mondays off in a row!

And madly, the assumption was also that your child was in school as you weren't allowed to bring them.

So only suitable for unemployed (or very flexibly employed) parents whose child's in school or childcare.

Therefore I've continued shelling out hundreds on private counsellors who offer online and will talk to you about what time might actually suit.

If you think you've found an option that works I'd go with that and just politely say each time regarding the other "sadly I cannot facilitate that as I will be at work." If DD will participate in what you've found at least it's rebuilding her trust in education.

The LA can’t compel you to facilitate provision. If another adult is required, the LA must fund that.

If you have found a cheaper option that will work better, it is worth asking, especially if you know the LA has used them before.

Although they might be reluctant if they have already commissioned a block of provision from the current provider.

The LA is supposed to amend B, F and I of DC's EHCP as per the Tribunal's Order in the next few weeks. Should I be chasing them? Reminding them of their duty to comply? Asking to review the changes before they're finalised? Confirming that DC will start at the new school immediately after the amendments are finalised? Is this likely to be another battle?

The LA doesn’t have to send you a draft to review the changes before finalising. I would contact the school if you haven’t already to start planning transition. Sadly, some parents do have to chase when their LA fails to comply with the timescales.

Hi All, after some advice re LA, EHCNA underway for child due to start school September. In response to my request LA called me to ask how I thought they would cope in mainstream to which my response was he will high level 1:1- they won’t fund due to their banding system, so I said what are you planning then given places are all full in other provision their answer we might consider x new provision not SEN specific but small new private school - would be able to meet his needs however they are not yet open. Process has gone on they have ignored the law, refused to get OT and SALT advice even after agreeing to, EP way over timescales and whilst EP report is ok says things like will need support throughout day including lunch and playtimes etc it has given no advice on size of class or overall type of provision. LA now plan to make decision about writing the plan and get banding funding agreed before sharing any plan with me and if I want a specialist school to be named I need to tell them now as this will be agreed at that same panel meeting? How can I do this with no idea what support they are proposing. Surely different settings need different plans due to different group sizes, staff ratios. Is this usual practice? ( I know what they should be doing, decision, produce draft, we have 15 days to comment then consult with school)

@RareAzureBee focus on the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F rather than banding.

With an EHCP, unless the school is wholly independent, being ‘full’ is not enough of reason to refuse to name your preference. The LA would need to prove placing DC there would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others or efficient use of resources. There is a point LAs can do that, but the bar is far higher than many LAs and schools admit. It has to be something specific that has a material effect and is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”.

You need to go back to the LA and EP to request they make the report detailed, specified and quantified. “will need support throughout day…” isn’t good enough. For example, will need doesn’t mean will receive and support is far too vague.

They shouldn’t really, but it isn’t uncommon for some LAs to begin consulting placements prior to sending the draft. However, that doesn’t prevent you stating your preferred placement is a special school when you receive the draft.

Provision should be based on what is reasonably required to meet needs, not written to fit a setting. When considering placements, think about what DC actually requires rather than what the LA is proposing. The draft will need amendments to make it fit for purpose and you shouldn't just rely on what the LA propose.

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden that is helpful to know about schools being full not necessarily being a barrier. I can’t check section F as they want me to name a school before sharing any plan with me! They told me to look at the website under the local send offer to see what schools can offer no offer to talk through options no signposting to anywhere else. I have challenged them on the lack of any advice in the EP report re type of provision, class sizes, staff training required but don’t know if I will get any more information. I suspect EP has not put this in due to LA policy or it would severely impact the options if they said no more that 10 in a class for example.

Don’t rely on the LA for school suggestions! They will not give you all the possibilities. The local offer often isn’t complete either. You can search for schools here. Also ask around locally.

Even if you state a preferred school now, you will be able to state a different placement when you get the draft. Even without the draft, by now, you should have an understanding of what support DD requires (whether the LA goes on to include it in the draft and subsequent final version is another matter).

I would challenge the EP report again if it isn’t amended to make it detailed, specified and quantified because it isn’t lawful for LAs to have policies limiting provision in advice and information sought during the EHCNA. Neither is it lawful for LAs to have reports written in order to fit placements. If the evidence is poor, the EHCP will be too.

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden for your reply, it’s not so much able relying on the LA for advice but I know of multiple cases where child with needs clearly needing specialist provision having it agreed it was needed but no places available until 2026 or 2027 so having to go to mainstream first until then. Seems to be standard practice Due to my child’s need with the right support it might be possible his needs could be met in our local mainstream school but if they don’t fund a high level of support it won’t work. My preferred preference might well be to see if mainstream can work for him, use that time to gather more information, get the view of a private EP. However if they for example only give funding that equates to 50% 1:1 it won’t work and I would want to say they needed to place him somewhere with an overall higher student to staff ratio however how do we know if they are full eg all 10 spaces in resource base are full or actually “full” eg we have already put 15 kids in there when we said a max of 10 and have a waiting list of 20 and there is no hope we can provide a place anytime soon. There are also things like “we only take with a diagnosis or with an ADOS assessment in progress” well we are on the waiting list but no sign of any assessment yet!

Focus on the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F rather than the funding. This is important for multiple reasons. One being, provision in F must be provided regardless of funding. Second being, for example, if funding equivalent to 1:1 50% of the time is provided but 1:1 for 50% of the time is not detailed, specified and quantified in F, it does not have to be provided.

You will get the opportunity to comment on the draft if amendments to, e.g. B&F are needed. However, you may have to appeal, especially if the evidence is poor.

You should state your true preference. If the LA comes back and claims one of the exceptions applies, you then ask more direct and pointed questions. With EHCPs, for non-wholly independent schools, waiting lists don’t exist in the same way they do for admissions to schools without EHCPs. They are another way LAs fob parents off. Schools/units/the LA for their schools/units should be able to answer questions you have about admission criteria, such as if a formal diagnosis is required.

It is also worth noting for most units, the mainstream school is named in section I and the unit provision is included in F. That is because most units are not separate registered institutions.

multiple cases where child with needs clearly needing specialist provision having it agreed it was needed but no places available until 2026 or 2027 so having to go to mainstream first until then.

I’m afraid this is the LA fobbing parents off. Those parents should have appealed. In the majority of cases where LAs use that line, LAs can’t prove the placement is so full placing DC there now is incompatible. That is why when parents do appeal, most are successful. Sadly, LAs string some parents along with this line/the waiting list line for years.

@Onceuponatimethen just wondering if you’ve heard anything yet? We haven’t… which is not a surprise but it’s disappointing as everything else had run to the deadlines….

Nothing @Paintingflowers and I’m going to send a message to them now asking for the draft to be issued.

@Onceuponatimethen such a shame. I was hoping you’d had better luck! If you wouldn’t mind sharing what you send, that would be amazing! I’ve set aside some time on Tuesday to work out how best to escalate!

Thanks. The new school is happy to start the transition (paperwork and risk assessments for now) until the EHCP is finalised, then they said they can set a start date. The LA has not replied, of course, to my emails asking them to confirm that they will make the deadline... I'm hoping they don't try to argue that DC has to wait until September to start. He hasn't been in school for months, so any further delay is really unacceptable.

@SpaceInvader321 that would not be lawful. (Unless SENDIST ordered it be named in preparation for Sept 2025, but you would know if that was the case and since you haven’t mentioned that, I doubt it applies.)

Wondering if anyone has any advice.

Currently awaiting tribunal for B, F and I of EHCP as part of a phase transfer.

LA have all of a sudden just before their response deadline stated they will name preferred specialist school in section I if we agree now so that the working document for B and F does not have to be opened.

Currently B and F are not sufficiently specific or quantified. They have suggested using the annual review process to adapt B and F once in placement.

This could also mean that our private educational psychologist report which is currently being written following an assessment is not taken into account by LA as evidence for B and F. I know sometimes LA's refuse to accept the assessment if private so I am a little worried this is a tactic to reduce provision.

Hi all, we have our tribunal against refusal to issue LA tomorrow. I can't believe that they casually emailed over dial in details today, and inputted a 10am new start time in the details, when for months it has been set at 2pm. The absolute lack of any decency respect to us parents- I have taken the afternoon off work/arranged childcare and at the drop of the hat, not even alerting us to the time change they just email out a totally different start time.

@Choconuttolata some people would agree, accept the preferred placement and try to tighten up the EHCP at the next AR.

Others would continue with the appeal.

Personally, as long as you had strong evidence, I would continue. If you did the first option, there is no guarantee the LA wouldn’t agree to amend at the next AR and you may end up appealing, anyway.

Good luck tomorrow @mollyminniemo.

Thankyou!! xx

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden that was our thinking too, there is no alternative educational psychologist report currently as the last one done by LA was done over four years ago. Also previous annual reviews have led to no change in B and F despite current school providing support and provision way above that detailed in section F of his previous and new EHCP. We would probably end up having to go to appeal in the future anyway to get them changed.

How annoying @mollyminniemo! I hope it goes in your favour though.

Thanks all. Had it today. Years of stress, meetings, reports, phone calls, statements… all finally came to an head after first applying for it nearly 2 years ago. Very friendly judge and panel though and the LA often had no answer to questions. Anyway, here begins the waiting game again for the verdict!