EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

Thank you @thatsnotmygardenreally informative. The SENDIASS link is excellent and has really explained options, steps and solutions. So I do trust his assessments moving forward.

ive had legal aid in the past and its a nightmare, only take literally mortgage into account and said rest of my wage is expendable income, so ended up costing me more in the long run than going private. Also not all solicitors accept legal aid.

im in a position where I don’t have the money but could get a loan for an excellent solicitor which helped write the 2014 Children’s Act. Deferral is absolutely essential for my son, it will impact his entire education if it’s not granted.

I think for now I’ll hold fire, continue with SENDIASS and if further down the line it looks like we need legal representation I’ll pay for it.

thank you for explaining all the options there’s definitely more avenues than I thought! And believe me I will not be giving up!

@lovemetomybones if money is tight, I wouldn’t spend it on representation. Spend it on independent assessments. If you don’t go down the legal aid route and will struggle to afford independent assessments, there are charities who can help - try Parents in Need.

Hi all. I have an annual review coming up. It’s an important one as it’s transfer to new school.
Last year, I’m sure the school has already updated the annual review plan with his progress for the year before the meeting.

This year, I’ve been asked to fill out sections and ignore the rest as it’s still last years plan that’s just been sent to me. No updates.
Is it best to see the annual review plan before the meeting, so I can challenge anything? Do I have a right to see the proposed plan before the meeting?

I’ve found what I need to know…

@BangerMasher advice and information must be circulated at least 2 weeks before the AR meeting. If it isn’t or it isn’t complete/accurate, you should challenge that. However, that doesn’t cover the LA giving you the proposed amendments prior to the AR meeting, because the LA can’t/shouldn’t decide those until after the AR meeting.

Thanks for letting me know. The LA submitted the ‘final’ version of the WD last Friday, so am I still able to submit an updated version today or tomorrow? My hearing is Wednesday.

If yes, would the version I submit me the one considered during the hearing or would this be at the judge’s discretion? (I’m not sure if submitting further versions of the WD is treated like late evidence).

Just had another question as I’m getting quite overwhelmed and confused.

If I’m asked about a proposed amendment, (e.g. say in the WD I added that DD needs direct speech and language therapy by an SLT for one hour per week) - during the hearing do I need to justify why DD needs this (e.g. if the NHS SLT witness disagrees with this)? Or do I simply just need to point out where this amendment came from- e.g. this was recommended on page number X from the independent SLT report written by Y on Z date?

@Ponche yes, you can still submit the WD today or even tomorrow. It isn’t like late evidence and the latest version will be looked at unless there is a problem with it, e.g. the LA going off piste and messing the latest version up.

Your justification for the amendments you are proposing should be rooted in the evidence, so reference this. The evidence should justify the professionals recommendations. Most of the time (hearings don’t always run the same. Different judges run things differently and it depends on what is already agreed etc. too) you will get the chance to cross examine witnesses attending - this can be helpful when independent and LA evidence conflicts.

Thanks so much for explaining, makes sense now.

I am still awaiting an NHS physio report following DD’s assessment last week. If it arrives today or tomorrow, shall I add any recommendations into the WD or should I wait for the morning of the hearing and see if the judge first accepts the report as late evidence?

@Ponche add the proposed amendments to the WD. If you can, I would chase the physio ASAP. If you get the report today or tomorrow send it to the LA and SENDIST simultaneously. Because you are so close to the hearing, don’t wait for the LA’s response to the SEND7 first. Just explain why you aren’t doing that.

Okay thanks a lot, appreciate all your help. Sorry I forgot to add that I already chased earlier today and so hopefully that will get things moving. I also explained during the assessment that I need the report ASAP and the physio is aware of the urgency as she was initially listed as a witness.

Hi all... Latest update (decision on whether to grant EHCP was supposed to be 21 May) is that I have spoken today to the EP who was assigned DD's case.

However, despite me requesting face-to-face assessment to the case-worker, he only does remote assessments for our LA as does not live anywhere near. He has advised that in his opinion, face-to-face assessment would be better and so is going to go back to the case-worker to request DD is assigned another EP and mark it as priority.

One of DD9's (diagnosed ASD, on pathway for ADHD assessment) main needs is SEMH and EBSA (though I feel that it is multi-faceted and there are also sensory, social and cognitive issues which are also contributors).

From initially applying for, and successfully appealing, the decision to conduct an EHCNA when at one point I had no idea how we were ever going to get DD back to school and she developed a vocal tic, had constant explosive meltdowns, was constantly picking her skin and acted like she hated us for even mentioning school, there has been improvement.

Things are nowhere 100%, but she generally is a bit more settled and seems happier about school. We're still late every day due to procrastination and some anxiety, but she's happy enough to be going in. However we had the same pattern last year where for the last term she was a lot happier... Then Sep-Feb had the worst time ever.

I asked how an assessment would reflect the ebbs and flows and he suggested we could delay the assessment until September when things would likely deteriorate again..

What would anyone suggest?

We have also been paying for play therapy with someone specialist in ND since January which I think has made some difference (after being pretty much fobbed off by the school when we asked for provision through them).

He has advised that in his opinion, face-to-face assessment would be better

Do you have that in writing from the EP? If not, follow up with an email.

I would also email the Director for Children’s Services.

Personally, I wouldn’t delay. DD still has significant needs and any EP worth their salt would take everything into consideration. Even if you delay, there’s no guarantee the LA will agree to issue, so you may be delaying an appeal.

@thatsnotmygarden Thank you. No, but he said he was going to email the case-worker stating that she needs to be seen face-to-face, and that her case needs to be marked as priority because of the delays so far (I know, I know, he likely has no bearing on the LA being able to fulfil re timescales). I think I will email him asking if he can copy me in to his email to the case-worker, reiterating our conversation.

What would you say in the email to the DCS?

I asked about the format of each type of assessment and he said that if he was coming in to do DD's assessment, he would observe her transition into school, observe in lesson, observe at playtime, then do 1:1 session to assess emotional regulation, barriers to school, and look at her processing skills and visual-motor integration (which had previously been identified as an issue in an OT assessment).

My worry is that at the moment, DD is mostly arriving between 9.30-10, regulated because I have been taking things at DD's pace and on her terms in getting ready, into the office, we say goodbye and she goes into school.

Although her social skills are limited in forming/maintaining wider relationships, she has two very close friends, one of whom she has been best friends with since reception, and who she plays with every single day so will be seen as happy and sociable during playtimes.

In lessons, I think she struggles a bit more, but masks, although the SENCO disagrees that she masks very much and is mostly "fine" (despite the fact that after two days of being back in school after half-term, the skin around her lips again was red and sore from picking it - it had healed up over half-term).

Yes, you're right... I think I'm just nervous that they won't see any problems.

I had sent the EP a document outlining everything, which he had read, so will do the same for the new one.

I messaged yesterday about annual review and that I haven’t received reports and the two week deadline is over. The SALT has given her report straight away. The SENCO says she is up against it but that I should have her report before the meeting.

I don’t know whether to waive the two week deadline, and whether anyone has experience of this? I know that I can postpone, but what is the benefit in doing this? The SENCo knows about the two week deadline. I’ve also been asked to fill out my section of the EHC plan before seeing the updates.

@Namechangeagain80 try not to worry, if you read your post buck, there are signs DD needs more support, and you may be surprised what social communication and interaction needs are picked up even though DD has two best friends. A good EP would still see DD’s C&I needs. I would be emailing the DCS, to chase the LA because they are in breach of the timescales. You may not get an answer, although it may still prompt action behind the scenes. Even if it doesn’t, it creates a paper trial.

@BangerMasher the advice and information circulated beforehand is important for setting up the rest of the AR process. You have to weigh up the pros and cons for your situation. You can request the AR meeting is postponed until the Regs are complied with. That will help you if won’t have time to go through the information because it has been provided late. However, it obviously means a delay. Or if you will have time and don’t think having it late will disadvantage you, you can decide not to overlook it. Some do this as long as there is time to go through the advice, especially if amendments are urgent and they need to process to move along quickly.

Our hearing has been adjourned as the NHS OT witness was unable to attend (although the LA were happy to still proceed). And also because the judge wasn’t happy that the NHS SLT witness who was in attendance was not the one who assessed her/wrote the report.

So frustrating.

That’s great help @thatsnotmygarden

i did get the school report today and I’m not particularly happy with it. There seems to be a big focus on writing and a judgement around his ability to write or the support needed with writing in cognition and learning. I would have thought it’s about more than that and I can remember it being a particular target for the year. Also sounds like he is writing at home but not at school.
Do I wait until the meeting to challenge?

@Ponche sorry to hear that.

@BangerMasher the advice and information should cover more than just writing, or even more than just C&L. Although that should be part of it. If that isn’t the case, raise it now.

It isn’t uncommon for DC to present differently in different settings. Why that is needs to be considered, and how those needs can be supported.

That’s so frustrating. But now you have time to further tighten your evidence and your WD if you need to. Small silver lining.

Just wanting to update on me- heard yesterday, that we won our appeal! DS (11) after a two year battle and SO many Fups from both the school and LA along the way. Just can’t even believe it. Thankyou to all advice here. Can I ask if you think it’s worth paying (a £400 fee) for our EHCP draft to be fully checked/ changed by an expert and our school of choice named etc - I’ve been quoted? Or is it pretty easy and simple to fill in? I’ll be honest- we’ve had so much going on. I work, 3 kids, 2 with SEN and if there is any room for error on that form that I could get wrong I don’t want to risk it. Thanks x &
all of you still going through appeals - don’t give up .The stats are on your side.

@mollyminniemo hurrah! I wouldn’t pay £400. Even if you want a draft check by someone, you can get it cheaper. If it is something you are interested in, SOSSEN has a much cheaper draft check service.Although it is possible to do it yourself too. I wouldn’t rely on a school to check it either.

Once you have the draft, go through all the reports with highlighters. Highlight all DS’s special educational needs in one colour and then all the provision to meet the needs in another colour. Each need should have corresponding provision.

Then go through the draft and make sure all the highlighted needs are in B and the highlighted provision is in F. Make a note of anything the LA has omitted from the draft, any needs without corresponding provision, any woolly and vague wording, anything the reports have failed to include, and any reports the LA has failed to include.

When you go through F, look out for vague and woolly wording. For example, “access to”, “would benefit from”, “regular”, “up to”, “or equivalent”, “opportunities for”, “as appropriate”, “would be useful/helpful”, “such as”, “e.g.”, “etc.”, “as required”, “as advised”, “key adult(s)”, “small group”. Provision must be detailed, specified and quantified, otherwise the EHCP isn’t worth the paper it is written on and cannot be enforced.

When (it is a matter of when, not if) you find vague and woolly wording, check the reports to see if they are woolly and vague or whether the LA has watered down provision. If the reports are vague and woolly, go back to the LA and report writer(s) to request they make the reports detailed, specified and quantified. If the LA has watered down provision, request the LA stick to the wording in the reports.

Also make sure any health or social care provision that educates or trains is in F. For example, LAs like to put things like SALT, OT, physio, etc. in G (health care provision) when it belongs in F.

Hiya again. I’ve come across this comment from SEND leader, and it’s made me feel prickly. “Child is finding it more difficult to attend in class as the pace of the curriculum increases”. Can I challenge? Think it would be better if it said “if the curriculum is difficult, differentiated work will help child access tasks’.

It comes across like it’s the child’s fault!

Or should I wait until annual review meeting?

That statement isn’t apportioning blame. It is a statement of their opinion as to what is happening.

Differentiated work can be part of the response, although sometimes it doesn’t solve the issue, but on its own it isn’t sufficient to just say differentiated work is required if the work is too difficult.

I would be focusing on how DS can be supported if he is struggling to be in the classroom because of the pace of learning rather than challenging their opinion.