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SEN

Here you'll find advice from parents and teachers on special needs education.

EHCP support thread no. 3

1000 replies

Phineyj · 17/05/2024 14:38

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

EHCP support thread | Mumsnet

My DD (10) is being assessed for EHCP. The council refused to assess (despite her already being diagnosed with ADHD, ASD, hypermobility and vision pro...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

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Alltheyearround · 16/07/2024 20:23

@UnendingSaga setting will be our next battle.
DH and I were chatting about it after tea this evening.

I think we have slowly realised DS's needs will not be met at mainstream (he's Y10 in Sept). He needs the speech and language stuff integrated into curriculum. That's what the consultant speech therapist said at the end of his session today.

We live quite rurally though, so the choices may be limited. Hey ho.
We will start our investigations come Sept.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you. What will you do if they name an unsuitable school, go straight to appeal?

As the saying goes, trust in God but tie your camel.

I seem to have a lot of camels to tie up most of the time.

BrumToTheRescue · 16/07/2024 20:28

@mollyminniemo I am not saying this is the case of your advocate, but speaking about advocates in general, you should be careful. Advocates are unregulated and whilst there are many excellent ones, there are also some poor ones who do more harm than good to a case.

mollyminniemo · 16/07/2024 20:33

Thanks BrumToTheRescue.

it’s sadly too late as she’s submitted the appeal and will submit this OT report as later evidence. I’ve been happy with her until now though and her track record is good. I just felt so overwhelmed by the process to be honest, I wouldn’t have had the ability I feel to submit anything of any decency on my own as just so much going on in my life right now.

UnendingSaga · 16/07/2024 20:39

@Alltheyearround we're already appealing because they didn't name a setting, I'm just hoping they concede before we get there. If they name a school that I know has said can't meet need we will keep going to tribunal. Our date is mid September so we'd miss the start of school.

Onegentlepeer · 17/07/2024 10:40

Hello everyone.
I'm just wondering who can say my child needs to go to a special school. My daughter is autistic and she can cope to a certain extent in mainstream if she is fully supported. When there is no support everything breaks down. Would a special school be better or is it worth fighting for a full time ta for mainstream.? Still waiting on an EP in her needs assessment. I worried scjool.or will play down her needs due to funding. I'm finding everything confusing but I am prepared to fight for what ever she needs.
Thank you if you can advise

BrumToTheRescue · 17/07/2024 10:58

@Onegentlepeer EP, SALT, OT… can all support the need for a SS. Information from the school can also add to the picture.

Where are you in the process? Have you requested an EHCNA? If so, what week are you on?

Onegentlepeer · 17/07/2024 11:22

School applied for ehcp. DD is currently in the needs assessment part. EP should be September. And she will be in Year 5 in September. I believe she needs a full time ta at the very least. She has massive issues with communication and interaction. DD refuses to write in school. And usually is unable to be in the classroom and definitely when there's no support. She receives higher level funding.
Thanks for replying.

Onegentlepeer · 17/07/2024 11:34

Currently at 17 weeks and 5 days. Just waiting for EP. I have a private OT reports that states she needs a smaller setting.
I have a report from a specialist teacher saying that DD is in crisis and has little ability to be in school.
School are saying that they speak to the EP but I don't know if I trust them because of funding. They are always talking about it.. The lack of it. My husband and I are both in out 50s worked full time since the age of 16..paid all our taxes etc... Surely somewhere in the system they can find extra funding for my 9 year old!! I know I'm going to have to fight.

BrumToTheRescue · 17/07/2024 11:42

@Onegentlepeer you might want to report your posts to request MN deletes DD’s name.

The LA is in breach of the statutory timescales. IPSEA has a model letter you should send to the Director of Children’s Services.

Has DD had a SALT assessment? Does the OT expand on a ‘small setting’?

In the meantime, if DD is unable to attend school, you can request alternative provision.

Onegentlepeer · 17/07/2024 12:08

Yes told MN about dd..
How do I request alternative provision... I thought that was only available when you have the ehcp?
Honestly it's a minefield.
OT said she couldn't write anymore than that.
Salt haven't said anything about what they recommend. Although dd has had speech and language therapy for 5 years) .. I believe because of funding. It feels like no one will commit to say what dd needs. Same with the paediatrician who diagnosed dd.
School say LA will only say mainstream on ehcp if and when we get it.

BrumToTheRescue · 17/07/2024 14:58

@Onegentlepeer if DD is unable to attend school full time, it is ultimately the LA’s responsibility to ensure she still receives a suitable full-time education. IPSEA has a model letter for requesting this too. This is a duty under section 19 of the Education Act 1996 and is separate from the EHCP process.

Was the OT someone with experience of EHCPs?

Did you ask the LA to seek advice and information from the SALT as part of the EHCNA? You need a report written specifically for the EHCNA process. Paperwork from ordinary SALT appointments won’t set out needs, provision, outcomes in the way that is necessary for EHCPs and they won’t be detailed, specified and quantified enough.

LAs often default to mainstream. You can appeal if SS is required but the LA names MS.

Onegentlepeer · 17/07/2024 15:27

I understand now..
Reports must say SS... For example the EP report.
If DD needs SS but gets MS on ehcp then appeal.
I really need to speak to DD's Sendco to make sure we are all on the same page. Current school can not offer full time one on one TA. Also school is too big. Sendco said that DD needs smaller school.and much more support.
Thank you very much it was quite confusing but I understand now.

BrumToTheRescue · 17/07/2024 15:29

@Onegentlepeer Reports don’t have to say SS. They can indicate a SS is required without specifically saying that.

The current school could provide 1:1 if DD had an EHCP with 1:1 detailed, specified and quantified in.

Ponche · 17/07/2024 15:53

Thanks @BrumToTheRescue , have started filling out the SEND35 form.

Just wondering, I know only sections B, F (and I) can be appealed, but can Section E be amended if the tribunal goes in my favour and changes are made to B and F?

I challenged the outcomes when I got the draft and suggested amendments but these were largely ignored.

BrumToTheRescue · 17/07/2024 16:22

@Ponche while you can't appeal the outcomes in E, depending on what amendments are necessary, you can request consequential amendments are made.

As well as BFI, you can also request C&G and D&H are considered as part of your appeal if necessary.

Ponche · 17/07/2024 18:11

Thanks @BrumToTheRescue , I’ll keep that in mind.

Not all the outcomes were SMART, some have been amended (still don’t think it’s enough). Also, they are all for ‘by the end of Key Stage 1), which is four years away.

OT/SLT report outcomes covered a range of timescales but this has not been included.

Coatsy · 17/07/2024 19:57

Might be a dumb series of question (sorry) but I was told recently our son has level 7 EHCP needs. Where is this frame work? The LA never mentioned any banding to us. North Yorkshire if that matters.

Is it normal that specialist schools can be a bit rubbish at replying to requests about meeting needs? The LA said they’ve sent it 3x, no response, the mainstream school (where he may go short term) have complained to the LA about said school! Not giving a good vibe about sending my son there!

He's starting in September (he’s 5). The travel is quite a bit (22 miles) so he will be provided transport. Anyone in a similar situation? I worry how meltdowns etc would be handled en route.

BrumToTheRescue · 17/07/2024 21:30

@Coatsy banding is local policy. See here. Focus on the content rather than the banding.

Schools, MS and SS, can be slow at replying. However, it is also possible the LA is lying.

An escort can be provided for transport. Once settled, DC often cope better than you expect with the transport. It can help if you can meet the escort and driver prior to the first day. That isn’t always possible though. LAs are often cutting it fine to finalise transport arrangements.

Wednesdayy123 · 17/07/2024 21:56

DD now has a place at ss for September (I can't believe it). I know they will do AR when she's there and it makes more sense then it going back and forth, are there any reasons why I shouldn't complete SEND8 now that we have the placement we wanted?

mollyminniemo · 18/07/2024 13:20

Hi all
We submitted our EHCP appeal and have been given a tribunal date of June next year! Does anyone have any stats/ articles which give a suggestion of timeframe if the authority conceded and grant EHCPs before/ to avoid the tribunal - how many cases this happens to? How long after submitting appeal or before the tribunal date this happens? Thanks.

MinnieTruck · 18/07/2024 17:38

Guys I’ve just read the first draft of DD’s EHCP and genuinely, I have no fucking clue what I’ve just read. I have no clue if this is a perfect EHCP for a 3 year old or if it’s the world’s worst one ever.

Our application for primary school needs to be submited by the end of September and I don’t know whether the EHCP is reviewed and amended for when she starts school? Or will it just be the same as the draft I’ve just read? I know I always say this but I really do feel way out of my depth!

The section about a personal budget, what is that actually about? There’s mention of my daughter of having a set hours of SALT but who is that provided by? I really don’t know what I’m doing here

BrumToTheRescue · 18/07/2024 20:19

@MinnieTruck an initial draft is highly unlikely to be perfect. Go through all the reports with highlighters. Highlight all DD’s special educational needs in one colour and all the provision to meet needs in another colour. It can help to break needs and provision down into communication & interaction, cognition & learning, social and emotional, sensory and physical. It can also help to put them into a table to ensure all needs have corresponding provision.

Then go through the draft and make sure all the highlighted needs are in B and the highlighted provision is in F. Make a note of anything the LA have omitted from the draft, any needs without corresponding provision, any woolly and vague wording, and anything the reports have failed to include.

Check F for vague and woolly wording such as “access to”, “as appropriate”, “would benefit from”, “or equivalent”, “opportunities for”, “as required”, “as advised”, “regular”, “up to”, “would be useful/helpful”, “such as”, “e.g.”, “etc.”, “key adult(s)”, “small group”. If provision isn’t detailed, specified and quantified, the EHCP isn’t worth the paper it is written on and cannot be enforced.

When you come across vague and woolly wording, check the reports to see if they are woolly and vague or if the LA has watered down provision. If the reports are vague and woolly, ask the LA to go back to the report writer(s) to make the reports detailed, specified and quantified. Provision in EHCPs is taken from the reports, so if the reports are vague and woolly, the EHCP will be too. If the LA has watered down provision, make sure to request the LA sticks to the wording in the reports.

Make sure any health or social care provision that educates or trains is in F. LAs often don’t do this. This includes things like SALT and OT. LAs like to put them in G when they belong in F.

Once you have looked at B&F, also look at C&G (health needs and provision) and D&H (social care needs and provision).

If it is something you are interested in, SOSSEN has a draft checking service.

For those with finalised EHCPs, a phase transfer review will be held in the autumn term in the academic year prior to starting reception. So, for DD, the upcoming autumn term. As part of the review process, you will get the chance to state your preferred placement for reception. You do not have to apply by the end of September, state more than one preference, complete a preference form or include a mainstream preference if your preference for SS.

If you have a finalised EHCP by the normal admissions deadline (which you should) you don’t need to make a normal application. If you don’t have a finalised EHCP by the deadline, you should make a request via the normal admission process just in case.

Don’t worry about personal budgets. A personal budget is the overall notional budget necessary to deliver the provision in the EHCP that can be delivered in different ways. You can read more in the SENCOP 9.95 onwards, but from your posts on MN I don’t think you are going to need to worry about PBs at the moment. There’s no one set answer on who provides SALT. It may be the NHS, LA, or an independent provider. If it is detailed, specified and quantified in F as it should be, the LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring it is provided.

@Wednesdayy123 don’t withdraw! Even if you don’t want to continue with the appeal for B&F, the LA should concede rather than you withdraw. If there is still outstanding content you disagree with, I would continue with the appeal.

@mollyminniemo more than 2/3rds of appeals were decided by a hearing in 22/23 (the most recent annual data). You can see the statistic here. LAs can concede at any time, including on the day of the hearing.

MinnieTruck · 19/07/2024 21:48

Thank you @BrumToTheRescue, helpful as ever. You mentioned highlighting certain sections to see if the what’s written is coherent and ties in directly with the reports.

You said, ‘If the reports are vague and woolly, ask the LA to go back to the report writer(s) to make the reports detailed, specified and quantified.’ Can I ask what happens if the LA goes back to the writer and they don’t change the wording?

Once we name the primary school during the review, is the content of the EHCP looked at again or does that stay the same? Based on DD’s presentation and the reports written, the EHC draft plan is very much focused on her communication needs. I’m just trying to get my head around how the reviews work in future. If her needs increase between now and the review, will this be acknowledged and reflected appropriately in the plan? It’s quite a mind field!

Wednesdayy123 · 19/07/2024 21:55

Thanks @BrumToTheRescue I have concerns the ss I am naming through appeal for DS has reluctantly offered an assessment placement, after visiting him today...just waiting for LA to ok it. I'm sure they will. But worried that they may not try their best to make it work as it’s not an official place. They gave the impression that they will eventually be made to take him, so why not just give him a place.. I don't know if I am just overthinking the situation.

BrumToTheRescue · 19/07/2024 22:34

@MinnieTruck if the EHCP remains vague when the LA finalise you should appeal. You can also complain about the poor report(s).

During the phase transfer review, you can raise concerns about the content too. Following the phase transfer review meeting, as well as getting to state your preferred placement, you will get the opportunity to make representations about the content. There’s no guarantee the LA will listen though.

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