This is breaking me. 6yo about to be excluded.

[NDandMe]

His behaviour is erratic, violent, and uncontrollable at school. I know and accept this is an untenable situation and the school has a duty of care for the other children as well as him.

We are doing all we can, but he is violent at home, too. He kicks and punches me, he kicks off at random things, and any behaviour management techniques only last a short time.

He's been referred for both ADHD and ASD. His behaviour is so extreme he's been bumped to the top of the waiting list for the Ed Psych - we have an appointment after the half term break. The school can't give him the resource he needs to function- sometimes 2 or even 3 adults in the room.

I am doing all the "right" things according to the woman on the CAMHS hotline. But he's still in crisis, about to be excluded, and I don't know what more I can do. What else is there? What am I missing? I've asked for a reduced timetable but I don't think he's going to last until half term at this rate.

He refuses to accept he's been violent at school, and says his teachers are lying. How can I address an issue he won't even admit to? What more can I do? I am overwhelmed and scared. I wouldn't blame anyone for saying I'm a bad mother and he should be excluded. I'd be furious if a child like this hurt my own DC. But here I am, feeling powerless and worried he will be out of school with no education before he can even read properly.

Sounds just like my PDAer.

He cut his laminated visual timetable into tiny pieces when the teacher wasn't looking.

I found the Declarative Language Handbook by Linda Murphy very helpful in learning to phrase things without triggering him.

You sound like you've come up with some excellent strategies to manage at home.

My DS is homeschooled now, but we're looking for an alternative setting. Not so much for learning, but to connect with peers as he's socially isolated.

It's very hard.

You're not alone.

Haven't read the full thread @NDandMe but from what I can see you have had a ton of good advice and your posts also reflect what a great job you are doing - the best you can to support your son.

The first exclusion will feel like the worst one. Brace yourself. But then it will get easier. We are still not quite "there" with my son but the initial shock and pain and panic of the first exclusion dulls.

My son (8) has ASD/PDA and ADHD and it has been a hard road so far. Multiple exclusions over the last couple of years. Some days I feel combative towards the school even though I am totally appreciative of everything they try to support him - and this is even with an EHCP in place. We are starting medication and looking for a change of setting but nothing comes quickly.

You are doing an amazing job, don't feel any of it is your fault. Not all kids are the 'right' shaped peg for mainstream school and mainstream parenting.

I still remember how I wept the first time he was excluded so I totally get how you are feeling.

Is it possible that the school he is at is amplifying his behaviour? it doesn't sound at all like the right setting for him - it's possible that the right school setting will really help him out.

Make sure you take the time to look after yourself too OP ❤️ sending lots of love x

Completely agree and was just about to say he could totally change once in the right surroundings.

I wouldn't worry about the education - he needs to be calm and happy first, and then he will catch up. Budgets are so tight it's quite hard to expect a school to have to assign several staff to one child.

Just to throw my hat in the ring with my experience working in mainstream schools. If when you say temporary exclusions you mean him being suspended for the rest of the day or 1 or 2 days then that is not illegal so long as you get it in writing (can be an email) the same day the decision is made. The official line is either a child is in school or they are suspended. No in-between or wiggle room.

What is illegal is a so called informal exclusion. This looks like you being called after the start of the school day and being told to come and collect him. They don't use the word exclude and you don't get it in writing. This is not allowed. HOWEVER it is important to bare in mind that these situations are not necessarily bad for you.

A child can only get excluded so many times from a school before they have to consider either a negotiated transfer to a different school or permanently expelling them. So these sort of informal exclusion are not a bad thing per se. If he had become over stimulated and hit another child and then you were asked to come and get him to prevent any situation escalating further into a fixer term exclusion then really that is a situation that could benefit you. He could be back in the next day rather than spending lots of time away from school.

The result of this is when parents sometimes do come into these situations where they push back and say "is my child suspended" then it just forces the schools hand. They are left with no choice but to exclude and nobody comes out of it for the better.

Different local authorities have different rules so some of what I say could be area dependant.

I really feel for you and hope the situation works out for you. I would hate to speculate on what is going on for you if that isn't what you want so don't read on if you aren't happy with that.

Your child seems to have a similar presentation to children who have autism and are demand avoidant. I've never personally interacted with a child as young as six as my experiences working in schools are with teenagers. But to me it seems like that is likely what is going on with your son.

Going to a rehabilitation centre for child behaviour isn’t a bad thing.

I went to one from the age of 4 to 7. It’s much better going at such a young age, then when they’re older teenagers.

At this age, it is still possible for him to recoup and get back on track of his education. Once is the behaviour has changed. After this I became an A grade student and now a calm good citizen (my own observations :-)) and business owner with a degree with many accolades and scholarships in my field. Depending on how you view success of your child long term this might be helpful.

For me, it’s because I’d seen traumatic experiences and I needed One-to-one attention. Whatever reason is for your child, it may be similar as well as ADHD et cetera but in a place where they can give your child the attention he needs and the curriculum is based on the one-to-one needs although when I went, it was in the 90s, I would keep an open mind on not having him stuck in mainstream school if that’s not the best place for him.

Sh!t happens. It’s how you deal it. Don’t beat yourself up as a mother. I don’t think of it that way. Just see this is another opportunity if this is what they think that he needs it could be for a much better outcome in the long run.

I’m centre, if behaviour became violent and unsafe for others, there was a special room for you to calm down. And if he’s not fully paying attention and being aware of his outburst at something that is harmful to others (I wasn’t when I was a kid, it was just my normal reactions to things I didn’t like) then this exclusion in the moment and one-to-one attention on having him calm down, reflect on his behaviour could be a great option.

In mainstream school, any behaviour that isn’t robotic and sheep like is demonised. In Centre, reactions for something that feels natural and normal means you’re just another kid - you have discussions and work though feelings, not a disturbance and bots a demon - just another kid.

Unlawful, informal exclusions should never be happening. They are unlawful for a reason. Ensuring the exclusions are formal a) provides parents with evidence of unmet needs to support pursuing additional SEP/an alternative placement, b) forces the school to follow due process, c) limits the number of days the school can exclude for, d) allows parents to officially challenge exclusions, and e) ensures the pupil receives alternative education for longer exclusions. None of which happen with informal, illegal exclusions. There is no accountability.

He had a great morning at home. He had a laugh, plays nicely with his older sister, gets ready without much fuss, chats about things that interest him (this morning we learned about bats). He's a really sweet boy. I strongly believe in the all behaviour is communication approach with children. He obviously doesn't feel safe or happy at school. If I could home educate him I would.

Don’t deregister. It is often easier to get support, especially a special school place, when on a school’s roll, even if DC can’t attend. Crudely you are someone’s ‘problem’ whereas if you EHE it is easier for professionals to sweep DC’s needs under the carpet. Remaining in the system means the LA retain responsibility and if DC can’t attend school they must provide alternative arrangements, but if you EHE the LA will say you are making suitable alternative arrangements.

Seriously, apply for that EHCP as soon as possible. You need professional advice as to the right school environment for him and how he should be supported.

Oh deregistering is definitely not an option, I understand the LA's legal responsibilities of providing education. It just hurts my heart to send him somewhere that causes him so much distress every day.

I'm asking to meet with the HT and SENCO urgently today, and stressed that an EHCP needs to begin immediately.

I'll not wait for them, though. I'm looking into doing it myself so if they try to fob me off I'll carry on regardless.

Absolutely read about pda. And the PANDAS approach. You sound lovely and so supportive of him.

I’m not one who will say ‘don’t deregister’ - it can be absolutely the best thing and I would personally prefer home Ed to EOTAS. Unfortunately so many parents of disabled children do end up having to give up work.

I can't give up work. There's no way. I know school isn't the best place for some children, but we can't function as a family if I'm not working. Luckily I have a lot of support from my manager and I can work from home most of the time, so that helps a lot.

Reading your first message literally took me back about 6 months ago!

My son was the same, 6 years old and excluded from school a number of times.

Push CAMHS, since my sons diagnosis (ADHD) and medication he's been a LOT better.

You do need to ask the school what things they have in place, ask for his behaviour plan, if he has an IEP things like that. They need to prove to you what they are doing to help him.

Also ask them to show your their behaviour policy and make sure they are following that before going straight to exclusion.

Follow up any verbal conversations with emails so you have a paper trail. If DS can’t attend you don’t have to force him.

EOTAS can provide far more than the vast majority of parents EHEing. That isn’t a criticism of those EHEing, but with an EHCP EOTAS can include therapies and support that the vast majority can’t afford to fund themselves. DS1’s EOTAS package costs in excess of £100k pa there’s no way we could afford to fund that.

With EOTAS parents can’t be compelled to deliver, organise, facilitate provision. The LA are responsible even if that means they have to fund someone else to.

Can I suggest you do careful research on the best school for him, including independent specialist, and fight like crazy to get him in there - quite often they will stick kids wherever there is space rather than find the best setting for them and it definitely sounds like your child would do well at a very particular low demand type of school.

I've got my project management hat on now. I'll be tracking their responsibilities like a mofo.

Just to add it sounds like you're doing a really great job in very difficult circumstances

Could your partner potentially give up their job if you have one

What is his home life like? Is there anything during his childhood that's likely to have caused emotional distress?

I'd rather not get into detail here, but yes, he needs a trauma informed approach to any interventions. It's on my list.

My 7 year old DD was very similar in the autumn term with an internal or external suspension almost every week, once they put some support in place she's been a lot better and only had one suspension last term, though it did take a while to work out what worked for her. In her case she's almost certainly autistic and the sweetest girl until she has a meltdown, when she lashes out.
In fact she's so much better now they don't think she'll get an EHCP, but the doctor diagnosing her disagreed so I need to look into that a bit more.

Your posts scream demand avoidant traits. Many ND people have them and they will be most acute when there is a lot of stress or unmet needs.

It doesn't surprise me that there is childhood trauma. There always is when children display this behaviour. People are far too quick to say it's neuro-diversity when a child is clearly distressed. I appreciate you can't get Into the details here but from my professional experience, that's always what you need to acknowledge and deal with first. Im sorry things are so hard for you both at the moment.