This is breaking me. 6yo about to be excluded.

[NDandMe]

His behaviour is erratic, violent, and uncontrollable at school. I know and accept this is an untenable situation and the school has a duty of care for the other children as well as him.

We are doing all we can, but he is violent at home, too. He kicks and punches me, he kicks off at random things, and any behaviour management techniques only last a short time.

He's been referred for both ADHD and ASD. His behaviour is so extreme he's been bumped to the top of the waiting list for the Ed Psych - we have an appointment after the half term break. The school can't give him the resource he needs to function- sometimes 2 or even 3 adults in the room.

I am doing all the "right" things according to the woman on the CAMHS hotline. But he's still in crisis, about to be excluded, and I don't know what more I can do. What else is there? What am I missing? I've asked for a reduced timetable but I don't think he's going to last until half term at this rate.

He refuses to accept he's been violent at school, and says his teachers are lying. How can I address an issue he won't even admit to? What more can I do? I am overwhelmed and scared. I wouldn't blame anyone for saying I'm a bad mother and he should be excluded. I'd be furious if a child like this hurt my own DC. But here I am, feeling powerless and worried he will be out of school with no education before he can even read properly.

You can request an EHCNA now, you don’t need to wait for school to. On their website ISPEA have a model letter you can use. The school should really have requested one before now.

In the meantime the school can apply for high needs top up funding if they need funding to provide more support. It won’t solve all the problems and isn’t immediate but it could help.

I don’t have any advice but I have a 6 year old ASC DS about to be excluded from his second school for similar behaviour. (Not that I’m trying to play shit parent top trumps…) You’re not alone.

Look up autism with PDA profile and see whether it sounds like your DS.

What support have school put in place? What strategies are they using when his behaviour begins to escalate? Has there been meetings to discuss what strategies work at home that could be used at school? Are school trying to work with you? Is this his first sanction? If this is one of a number of suspensions then they should be putting in a request for an EHC assessment, you can do this yourself. He has already got a referral so there is an indication of underlying SEN and then from what you have said he may benefit from an EHCP. However, in the meantime, school should be asking the LA for support, there will be (should be) support from experts from local PRUs or special school who can offer outreach.

Have you looked at your school’s behaviour and exclusion policy? Have they followed all the steps?

Am sure someone else will give better advice/ correct me but hope this helps.

Oh OP it sounds so tricky for you. Glad they are getting the Ed psych in as that was one of the pieces of evidence we used for our EHCp applications.

Please don't blame yourself. Agree with other posters that PDA sounds like a possibility. Sunshine support are a good charity that has online sessions on various topics that might be useful.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to comment. I'm deeply appreciative. I feel immobile with overwhelm tonight but I will get the ball rolling with these things tomorrow.

I had a family member like this. Same age. Needed 2 or 3 adults to hold him down during an attack. He would be screaming obscenities and violently attacking anything or anyone around him. This was in the early 2000s - he was referred for old fashioned anger management counselling, he was like a different person after a couple of months. I do wonder if they’re too quick to jump to ASD/ADHD now as they seem to be the only conditions ever diagnosed, and all the time. Does anger management counselling even exist anymore? If so it’s worth a go?

*They haven't clearly outlined their steps. I need to email the senco and ask, because I sometimes feel like they are flailing and looking for ways to get rid of the problem because they don't have the skills to meet his needs.

That's me feeling defensive, angry, and helpless btw. I understand this is shit for them, too.*

They should clearly be able to demonstrate what they have in place to support your child, and those steps should be agreed in consultation with you. There are lots of interventions they can put in place to lower your child’s anxiety and help him cope in school. I think your instinct that they’re trying to get rid of the problem may be a good one. It’s not unusual for schools to find a way to exclude and ultimately off roll children who need more support - it’s discriminatory and wrong but it happens.

Before you accept the exclusion I’d ask for a meeting with the SENCO, ask them to explain all the measures they’ve already put in place and explore why they haven’t already applied for an ECHP for your child and why they’re only now involving Ed Psych. Explore what education provision they will be making for him. They should use alternatives to repetitive phonics if he’s not coping with that, for example. Your child is reacting to being in a place where his needs aren’t being met.

It’s hard when your child’s difficulties come out in their behaviour. At times I’ve felt embarrassed, I’ve been sympathetic to teachers, felt like I was being demanding etc etc which got in the way of me advocating for my child’s rights. Try to set those feelings aside, out of everyone it’s most shit for your child, who can’t represent himself, so you need to speak for him. It’s the start of a long fight to have his needs met but it’s worth it once he’s in the right place for him.

The school need to gather evidence and apply for an EHCP. If they try and stall you can put in a parental request. The Ipsea website has template letters you can copy. Also call and speak to your local sendiass service. Every local authority area has one. They should be able to attend meetings in school. The school should be doing this not just excluding him.
An Ed Psych report will be part of the EHCP process and would identify what provision your child needs. I'm sure in a different school setting he will cope much better, and he may well get a diagnosis of some additional needs as well.
Its so hard going, I have a son with autism and some days are unbearable

Make sure any suspension or exclusion is a formal exclusion. Too many schools try to informally exclude which is unlawful. It is important any suspension or exclusion is formal as it provides you with evidence of unmet needs, allows you to challenge it and means the number of days a pupil can be suspended for is limited within a year.

Be careful with SENDIASS, some are good but too many repeat the LAs unlawful policies. For information and advice ISPEA and SOSSEN are better.

We had a very similar situation as you have OP when DS was 8. It's an emotional roller coaster. I was convinced that DS needed to stay in the school with familiar surroundings and people. I was devastated for him when he was permanently excluded and it was badly handled by the school but that's another story! As it turned out the permanent exclusion was the best thing they ever did for him and it would've been better if they'd done it sooner rather than spending 3 years thinking they could 'fix' him. He went to a pru and they helped apply for an ehcp. They were amazing. He now has a place in a specialist school and he still has good days and bad days but they are able to meet his needs. It sounds like you're doing everything you can. It will be a long road ahead but you'll get there although somedays it doesn't seem like it

Could he have PDA.
My son has this, he is 7 now. He doesn’t go to school but he would most likely be at this point too if he did
Hugs for you op

This has been exactly the case with my now 12yo. He has a diagnosis of ASD with a PDA profile and ADHD. His behaviour at home improved significantly as we became better at supporting him but in school he has had u controllable violent outbursts since he started. In hindsight; I wish he’d either been excluded at age 6 so he had had the right support throughout his primary years or we’d known what we know now about the support he needs and fought to have him removed from his mainstream school and given specialist setting. Instead he’s now got post traumatic stress disorder from how he’s been mismanaged and manhandled in a school that couldn’t accommodate his needs (eg 3 or 4 adults sitting on him). When he got to secondary school he was excluded almost immediately and whilst it’s been challenging, he is now finally going to be attending a school that understands his needs.

I don’t really have anything to add outside of what has already been suggested but offer solidarity and reassurance that tough as it is, this could facilitate his access to the right setting for him and prevent longer term complications from being in the wrong education setting.

Is he Y1 @NDandMe ? Has this always been his behaviour through school?

I would go for a reduced time table asap. A big meeting with the INCO/SENCO as an EHCP should be well under way by now. Honestly I’d get the school to buy in an extra EP visit before half term.

Yes, he's year 1. His behaviour started going downhill in October, but it's escalated quite significantly over the past month.

I’ve got nothing constructive to add, just wanted to say that you do not come across like a shit parent. You come across as being pretty awesome.

Ask for this to be moved to the SN section and your'll get great advice and support. The Senco is not your friend, stop being fobbed off and wise up to the idea that no one cares like you do for your sons priorities, if she was they'd have applied for EHCP already. You need to be more savvy, find out what you need to know, and fight for your son.

you sound a fab mum. You are trying everything and I just wanted to say I so hope you and your DC get the help support you need. I am sure a specialist school may offer your son the support and guidance he needs. I wish you all best wishes for the future and keep my fingers crossed uou can source some help for you both 💐

@MNHQ could you move this thread to the SEN section?

This feels really unnecessarily harsh. I'm doing exactly what you're implying I'm not doing...

I agree with a previous poster about researching PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance).

Have a look as well at Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria which is often co-morbid with ADHD.

It sounds like your poor ds is completely and utterly overwhelmed in the school environment.

He is communicating this overwhelm very clearly.

Have a look at Autistic Burnout.

I taught a child very like your son, in my special school class. He didn't really fit my school's clientele, as he didn't have the severe learning needs that the rest of our children had. But there was nowhere else within the LA that could manage him.

He would become very violent very quickly, but fortunately I had the staffing to deal with it, and he could be removed from the classroom very quickly, to a safe environment (fortunately he never hurt other children, only me and my team of assistants). When the episode was over, he'd be shocked and bewildered. It was as if he didn't know what had happened or why. I found it quite upsetting. There was a really lovely and caring kid in there, and these attacks seemed to worry him as much as they worried us. Following an episode, he couldn't accept that it had happened, or explain it at all. He was also five/six years old when he was with me.

I hope the ed psych will be helpful. And yes, you really do need to research the specialist provisions in your area.

Also please consider finding some training on restraint and passively defending yourself when these attacks happen. It's hard to explain to anyone just how much damage a small child with no 'off switch' can do. Despite our training, one of my assistants ended up in hospital after one of his 'flips'.

Is it possible to contact Barnados or similar charity for support?

I don't think @Oblomov23 is implying you are not doing everything you know about. The problem alot of us with SEN kids face is that the SENCO only has limited resources which have to cover all the kids. And they have to ration. A child like yours will be passed around as the school doesn't have the resources to come close to what he needs and everything they direct at him in the meantime is something that a child they expect to see through to yr6 is missing out on. I KNOW THAT SOUNDS AWFUL... IT IS!! But sadly its likely to be true. We are the only people our special kids can rely on - hence directing you to join one of the communities of parents who know the system.

I would attempt to avoid a permanent exclusion - question it, appeal it, take it to tribunal whatever it takes until your child has seen that EP otherwise they will loose that appointment and be at the mercy of another head being prepared to put him to the top of their EP list ahead of other kids. (I'd accept a short term exclusion as a few less days in school to get through though) Once he's seen the EP his existing school will be expected to work with you to do whatever the EP proposes before they are allowed to attempt to exclude him again - assuming the EP doesn't suggest an immediate move.

Take care OP. SEND kids are hard on themselves and those who care for them.

And often you will be told that your child just isn't a priority. It's disgusting the way some local authorities behave around arrange support for primary pupils.