Crying it out - how long at each waking?

[DibsDabs]

Hi Ladies

DD is 8 months and in that time I have had only 2 nights of complete sleep. Having tried various other methods of helping her sleep through, this week I have decided to try and let her cry it out. The first night she woke at 11.30 and I rocked her back to sleep in my arms while she was crying ? this lasted 30 mins. She woke again at about 3 and I could only manage 15 minutes of her crying before I fed her for about 5 mins when she fell asleep. She woke again at 5.30ish and I fed her straight away. Last night I managed 40 mins before giving in and feeding her for 6 mins before she fell asleep.
In your experience, should I leave her to cry for longer/shorter? Help and advice much appreciated.

Thanks

i wouldn't leave her to cry at all.
there are nicer ways to sleep train a baby if you really feel you need to.

She's 8 months old. It's utterly normal for her not to be sleeping through. And if a quick 6 minute feed works then why on earth would you swap that for a prolonged period of crying?

Hello,

I'm assuming you are breastfeeding?

PERSONALLY I would leave it until she is least and year and then think about some strategies then, such as perhaps your husband doing all the wakings instead of you?

Hi,

I did a version on controlled crying with my son at 6 months having not had a full nights sleep in that time and after three nights he slept through.

Firstly - NO MORE FEEDS IN THE NIGHT. Its hard but the babies need to learn that there is no point waking in the night as they won't get fed.

Secondly - I did anything - rocking/singing/cuddling/swaying/music to get DS1 to stop crying after he woke (he wanted feeding and could smell it on me...) As he started quieting down I would use my 'sleep phrase' - "beddy byes sleepy time" and just repeat until he was quiet. After approx a minute of holding them when they're quiet you put them back into the cot and then say the phrase as you walk out of the room. They invariably start crying immediately - but the whole point is to make sure you put them into the cot WHILE STILL AWAKE. You may find the problems you're having are because your daughter is falling asleep in your arms and then waking on her own in her cot and freaking out. They need to learn how to go to sleep and this involves putting them into the cot when they're quiet and tired and leaving them to it for a while.

Leave them no more than ten minutes and then go in and repeat the above. My son never got so upset that he was sick or anything but I think (as I do now) that if his cry got really upset I may go in before the 10 mins were up but keep to the routine.

You need to be prepared to stick at it - but trust me I was DEAD AGAINST leaving my DS1 to cry but I was desperate and it WORKS!

Night one I went in a few times - night two I didn't have to get out of bed... He woke a couple of times and cried for about 7 and then 3 mins. Night three he woke once and settled himself. Night four he slept through!

Hope this helps - your daughter is old enough to learn the lesson very quickly so you should see some results quite quickly if you stick to the routine. Let me know if you need any more tips or I've left anything out. Best of luck! :-)

why do you think a baby must learn that it can't have food in the night?

i usually take a glass of water to bed with me, and often wake up and drink some

why should a baby not be allowed to?

your baby is totally dependent on you for everything. you need to listen to her, she is telling you what she needs.

i really don't get why parents seem to think they "know" when a baby needs to be fed/comforted

a good article

and also if you really must sleep train, maybe read this

or get yourself a copy of the no-cry sleep solution

It's utterly strange that you would treat a child in a way you wouldn't treat an adult. Deciding for them that for 12hrs they are not allowed affection, nutrition, comfort, liquid even when they become distressed.

"You need to be prepared to stick at it - but trust me I was DEAD AGAINST leaving my DS1 to cry but I was desperate and it WORKS!" Of course it works. Your child has learnt that there's no point communicating in the only way he knows how, because his mummy isn't listening or responding. I'd give up to if I was left to cry on my own in the dark. It's not a message I would ever give to my baby.

too

Goodness - all I was after was a bit of encouragement or support - not to be made to feel like i am a total failure for wanting my child to have some solid sleep.

ok, well i don't think you'll find much support or encouragement for leaving a baby to cry. sorry.

YOU want her to have some solid sleep.
SHE isn't ready and is trying to tell you that.

what you mean is that YOU want some solid sleep.

Hi Dibdabs,

Lots of people might think that an 8 month old "needs" 12 hours' sleep, but lots of people think this is an unreasonable expectation and think that an 8 month old need parenting in the night, just as s/he does during the day

which is fair enough, i know the hell of sleep deprivation well enough. my second child woke every 45-90 minutes for the first 9/10 months of his life. so believe me, i know what it's like

but there are nicer ways to go about it.

DibsDabs, I am with you on this one. Not on the leaving them to cry, but on wanting to sleep! If your baby is only feeding for 5 mins during the night, she is probably not that hungry. It would not be unreasonable at this age to want them to sleep, maybe waking once for a feed and then go back to sleep. Unfortunately (not unfortunate for me, but for advice giving) I seem to have been blessed with a baby who loves to sleep. It took a few months for him to sleep for long stretches but I always fed him when he wanted feeding and he seems to have settled himself into a pattern.
He often screams for 6 mins before dropping off- have timed it, this is the average! Having said that, I have never left him to cry for more than 15mins so don't know what I would have done if it had taken longer. During the night if he wakes, I rock him/pat his tummy/feed him/whatever seems to work, some nights are easier than others. Hope someone offers productive advice soon

I wasn't saying nothing to drink ladies - just no food - you don't get up in the night to have sandwich surely? Give them a drink if they want it - but there is no need to be feeding 8 month old in the middle of the night imo.

And I'm not sure if I implied no affection in my posting but that certainly isn't how it was meant to come across. I'm sure everyone loves their own children more than their own life itself - so that just seems like an incorrect assumption also.

I read and did follow all the advice in the 'No Cry Sleep Solution' but that didn't help my son to learn HOW to go to sleep and how not to be scared if he woke up somewhere different to where he dozed off or if I wasn't there as I had been when he went to sleep. I truly believe he his happier since knowing that he goes in his cot to sleep - with abolutely not a grizzle from him ever.

He was never left to cry - as I said if he got upset I would always go in and calm him down. But now he sleeps wonderfully well and so do we.

I'm not an advocate of 'leaving them to cry it out' even slightly - I have friends who did this and their children still bawl their eyes out when they are put to bed. My son laughs and giggles as I put his sleeping bag on and I can't see that I have done anything particularly evil to him.

It just sounded like the lady who started this post could do with sorting out her sleep situation and I thought that she might be interested in following the 'plan' my HV gave me.

No offence intended ladies - easy now.

newmomma
thanks for your posting again; i can certainly do with all the help at the moment.

Though I let my daughter cry I have been with her the entire time rocking her and patting - I would never leave her to simply cry so that I could get some sleep!

Did your HV suggest how long before giving in and feeding them or should I be strong and not feed at all, maybe try soome water.

Well, weaning guidelines suggest that a baby is exclusively bfed until 6 months, milk remaining the main part of the diet until a year.

At 6 months old, when you decided NO MORE NIGHT FEEDS, my dd hadn't even started solids, was still waking for feeds in the night, had a small tummy, was going through massive developmental changes. I had in my breasts the perfect drink/food/comfort for a 6 month old baby. There isn't a cat in hell's chance that I'd have suddenly stopped night feeds, compromised my milk supply, taken away a major source of comfort from my child, risked blocked ducts and mastitis and listened to my child cry.

I think our opinions differ to much to find any middle ground on this. I firmly believe that sleep is developmental and have no more desire to force sleeping through the night on her than I would force walking/talking. I think there are gentle methods of encouragement that work. They take longer and you have to be willing to work at your child's pace but it's certainly my preference.

I'm a little confused that you said you have to be prepared to leave them to cry for 10 minutes and you did this though sometimes going back before the 10 minutes was up. You then say you never left your baby to cry.

It's not about competitive tiredness but I don't think 6 months without a full night's sleep is anything above or beyond the ordinary experience of many parents. Of course we all have different expectations and abilities to handle sleep deprivation but I am continually surprised at how many people expect sleeping through the night from a young baby.

dd1 is fantastic sleeper. We never put him down asleep - i always gently nudged him awake as i put him back into his cot. He was BF till i weaned him at 5.5 months

At around 7-8 months, he was still waking in the night for a feed but was then not wanting milk or breakfast till good hour+. So i decided he was waking out of habit rather than need.

We tried leaving him cry, going in every 5 mins, then 10, then 20. After about 5 nights of this, he settled much quicker- (i think it was over hour first night, then went down to 10 mins) but he was still waking so...

we then watered down his milk (6 ounce water/5 scoops powder, then 4,3,2,1) then just offered him water. After 2 nights of water he gave up & stopped waking.

second time around is a complete nightmare! DS2 (7 months)has such random sleep patterns. I am in process of dropping bf but the switch to formula has made no difference (that isnt why ive stopped btw). I wasnt so good at putting him down awake which i really think is the key to getting babies sleeping well, & he shares room with his brother so I cant leave him to cry without waking the other one up!

I think it may be a loooong time before ds2 sleeps through!

As a 'sleep trainer' I say:

2 mins checking fom first wake and use a comforting sentence such as 'sleep time now' each time you go in.

Place back down in cot, tuck in, smile, and walk away. No rocking, no feeding, no patting or shhhing, just reassure and walk.
HTH

Crying it out is totally unnecessary and unfair.

Have you considered sleeping next to your baby? This often makes nights far easier as you don't need to actually get out of bed, which imo is the hardest bit of going to a crying baby.

they also tend to settle far better if you are near them.

Please, please don't just let her cry - though your holding her is far far better than what CIO usually is, which is literally allowing a child to cry alone until it stops

You sound like a loving mother who just has a misguided idea that babies shouldn't need to be near us at night

Flight, I think 2 mins is okay, personally. I co-sleep with my DD2 if she is unsettled and then put her back in her hammock next to me but sometimes if I think she is tired and not in pain or needing milk/cuddles very badly then it is best to just let her cry for a couple of mins before resettling her.

I think total CC is awful but my 2 min checking method sits okay with me and I use it with clients who are happy to allow some crying.

newmoma.... what is breastmilk if it isn't a drink???
babies use breastmilk both as a food, and to quench their thirst. thus, if weather is particularly hot for instance, you may find your baby wants to nurse more frequently because they are THIRSTY.

it also provides comfort, so waking, being scared, wanting your mummy to come and make it ok again.
it's part of that too.

I fail to see why people think that's so wrong.
Sorry, but babies do wake in the night, and yes, you can train them not to call for you if they do- that doesn't mean they're happy about it,

and you know what, it's such a short, short time in the grand scheme of things.
sleep deprivation does suck, but it's far easier (and nicer on your child) to change your expectations and habits, than to expect a small baby to change theirs.

hobgoblin, can i ask why you think it's "best" to let a small baby cry before tending to them?

When I choose to leave my DD it's because sometimes she needs a chance to sleep and the more fuss I make the less she is able to do this.

that could be because crying is actually a baby's last resort to getting a parent's attention.
they display many feeding cues, and signals before they actually start crying.
so by the time they are wound up enough to actually cry they are often much harder to settle.

it's amazing watching videos of mother's who co-sleep and breastfeed, baby rarely cries, and often mum feeds baby without hardly waking up because she has picked up on some of these cues.

it always wows me how instinctive it can be!

Thisisyesterday I applaud your post.

There is also the question of the damage that can be done to a small baby by allowing their cortisol level to rise markedly, which happens when they start to panic.

Research suggests this can have a lasting impact on a child's mental health, right into adulthood. Bottom line is they need to be responded to as soon as possible when upset.