Misguided Illusion Part II - Baby still not sleeping through by six months? Come and join us!

[MomOrMum]

Thought I would start a fresh thread as, sadly, we have almost filled the first one.

Feral, Kiwi, Chulita, et al...shouldn't we have graduated from this thread by now?!

Now welcoming a new crop of 6 months+ babies determined to help us reach new heights/depths of sleep deprivation.

Here is the original thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/713951-Support-thread-for-those-who-were-under-the-misguided-illusion

Hello lydia just read your other thread. Sounds like you're having a tough night! So sorry your DS was poorly over christmas, and I'm not surprised you're still missing the BFing.

I've had some success with controlled crying, but not until our DS was about 81/2months. It didn't feel right to us to try it until then.

It also isn't recommended by the person who "invented" it (Richard Ferber) as a way to drop night feeds. So if you think your DS is hungry in the night, definitely trying to find another way to gradually cut down on the food at night should be kinder and easier on both of you.

I thought Jollyma's suggestion was good - what do you reckon?

thankyou isitmeor. im definately going to try jollymas suggestion as when ive now taken him out of his cot tonight he's settled in my bad with me holding his hand. ive just got myself in to a bit of an emotional tizz today as i still feel really crap about not being able to breastfeed anymore and that by not doing so i shouldnt be co-sleeping.

I think everybody on this thread can relate to that lydia. The sleep deprivation combined with the sense of failure that you can't help them get to sleep is a potent combo!

It's such a shame about your not being able to breastfeed, but I think they're much more robust once they got to 6mo, and you know them well enough to trust your own judgment about whether co-sleeping is safe or not.

The other thought I had was that I have heard that lots of babies with bad reflux settle down once they are getting onto solids well, so it may just be worth sticking with it for a little while until DS is eating a bit more solids. Then you can maybe try a more radical sleep training approach if you feel like it, without the worry of his being sick repeatedly.

DS didn't have reflux, but he has always seemed to be sensitive to his digestion, so that was one of the reasons we waited until 8+months before doing CC (and by that point, we were desperate ). We also did BLW, and it took him that long to be having 3 reasonable size meals a day to my satisfaction.

Hope you had a better night last night, and let us know how you're getting on.

hi, he was much better once i brought him in to my bed and didnt wake til nearly 1 for a bottle then went back to sleep til nearly 7. he does seem to settle much better when put on a pillow which i know is naughty but am wondering if him being raised eases his reflux?

again as you say with blw i dont feel like he is getting three decent meals yet, its hard to judge the difference between how big a portion of puree would be if taken non-pureed IYKWIM??

That's good news lydia I was worried for you last night!

I've heard the same about reflux, ie that elevating them so they're sleeping at an angle helps. Can the GP not recommend something? I thought there were special pillows that enabled you to strap them in safely (okay, I admit that I saw something in a baby whisperer programme, lol).

I know what you mean about the BLW portions. But I think you get a feel for whether they're having a good go at their food in the mealtimes. Plus the milk consumption dropped right down for DS - he barely nibbles at BF time most of the day now (10mo).

I bring good(ish) news. For the past two nights, DS has only woken twice - 1.30 and 5 - which seems copable with. Not sure why he's waking at 1.30, as he has a dreamfeed at 10 or so, and doesn't seem that hungry when he has that...

I realised that he'd started eating less formula in the day, which could be causing his waking, since I changed to the follow-on variety. I asked the HV if it HAS to be follow on, and she said I could revert to the infant version if that's what he prefers. So I've done that, and we'll see how it goes.

IsItMe I'm also getting a bit more 'routine'y. He woke at 8.30, so I gave him boob, came downstairs for his breakfast. At 10.30 I decided it was time for his nap (rather than waiting for him to look tired), put him in his pushchair, gave it a couple of rocks, and he's off! Yesterday he slept for a total of an hour during the day, so I'm trying to get him napping more.

And at the weekend we're going to put him in his own room. oooOOOooohhh.

Anyway, ramble ramble... I was crying last night with the feeling of failure as a mother, and the overwhelming amount of advice and opinions there are. So any progress seems such a triumph!

herbaceous that does sound like progress. DS got a bit like that with his night feeds when we started weaning - eventually he dropped down to two and then one when we did the controlled crying to let him learn to self-settle. We had no plan to cut out any feeds, and didn't let him cry at his "usual" hungry times in the night, it just happened naturally once he had learned to self-settle iyswim?

Re overwhelming amount of advice and opinions. I hear you! My experience has been that I eventually "click" and realise what it is that I want to do having considered all the advice/opinions/info. But it's a bit of a rollercoaster getting there. I still feel like a failure as a mother multiple times a week (if not day, sometimes!). I think (hope!) it's normal...

I think there's something about this stage, too. Lots of my NCT pals are feeling a bit miserable at the mo - the babies are changing so fast, and it seems hard to keep up with what they need. I think we're also creatures of habit - if we find something that works, it's quite unsettling when it starts not to work any more!

I must be doing something right, though. At the clinic yesterday he proved to have put on two pounds in four weeks, and is a lively bundle of curiosity and wonder. I must try and remember that in the middle of the night...

My DD is nearly 9mo and still wakes in the night. Completely unpredictably - last night it was 2.30 and 3.30, the night before 12.30, 2 and 5. I was told sternly by the HV to stop feeding her at night which had disastrous results so I've gone back to BFing her when she wakes up. More sleep all round!

Oooops, misplaced this thread for a while! DD tends to be waking only once a night generally now - although sometimes twice just to keep me guessing. She also (having been a nightmare at nap times) seems to have gone to 2 naps somedays. Certainly her first nap is now considerably later than it was. I still can't get the naps any longer than 45 minutes though.

She still goes down well at the start of the night (except last night as I was going out, of course) and then wakes any time between 12 and 4!

I haven't been told to stop feeding her overnight and don't intend to as there is some concern about her weight gain, so she can have as much milk as she wants!

Hi - glad there's good news about. I have too.... Started back at work and somehow have managed / DS has got down to one feed in the night (not intentional). He would cry but be asleep by the time I got to his door so I only ended up feeding at 3am for several nights now. So that's progress at last. Hope he will push that further through the night til we get to the morning. (A little more waking, crying, going back to sleep).

And I enjoyed going back to work. And he LOVED being with GParents for the days I am away. SO feeling much cheerier.

Suspect a bad night ahead tho as top teeth are HURTING him like hell today.

When, oh when, will I learn?!

"She still goes down well at the start of the night (except last night as I was going out, of course) and then wakes any time between 12 and 4!"

Last night I started feeding her after her bath at 6:30. She was really distracted and alert, so I tried everything I could think of. She did feed in the end, and began to doze off. So I put her down... Cue the screams. DH tried cuddling her to sleep like he did the night before when I went out. Managed, put her down, screams. Managed again, put her down, screams. I went and fed her again, and she went to sleep. Stirred her, put her down and she went back to sleep. Great, I think! Half past flippin' 9!! Scream, scream, scream. I went up, fed her again and yes, she went straight back down till 4:15, but what's with these disturbed evenings?! I reckon it's just because I said she went down fine!

Glad you've had a good return to work, dycey. Hope last night wasn't too awful?

By the way, being a proud mum here... If you want to see some piccies of my little miracle (born at 27 1/2 weeks), have a quick look at this.

NONONO!!! Typed that in wrong!

I meant this!!

HeeHee - had to look at the mistake one too - lol!

But aw, what a cutie. She is doing really well after such an early start.

Sorry you're having some dodgy nights at the mo. Could it be teeth (my answer for everything!)?

A miracle has occurred. DS only woke once, at 4am, and that was only because he'd done a gigantic pooh. I am now trying to slavishly copy exactly what I did yesterday to replicate the phenomenon!

Galena - your pics are amazing! What a tiny scrap she was. It must have been terrifying. But how she's grown! I'm not surprised you're proud.

Yay for babyherbaceous!

DS only woke up properly at 6am last night, but that was because he has a cold and was dosed up on baby drugs (the previous two nights, drug free, had been terrible). I think he had roused previously but fallen back to sleep before I got round to getting up and feeding him . Think I was exhausted after the previous two nights...

He then went back to sleep after a while, and had to be woken at 8am for brekky .

He's a lot better today, unlike DH, so hopefully normal sleep service will be resumed shortly.

Glad we all seem to have got some sleep last night. Thanks for the comments about DD. I think she's pretty gorgeous (except at 2am, of course)!

Hi and welcome herbaceous and lydia. lydia have you tried full size pillow under mattress? Works well for raising head, I use it for colds.

Back at home with mixed results - some nights DT1 sleeps until 12 or later then does 4 hours til next feed. Still waking often at 5am though. DT2 has woken v early evening since we got back - 9 and 10. Last night I was pacing the floor with her several times screaming whilst DH and I yelled at each other, and usually, DT1 joined in from the other room too
Hope tonight is better - things were different today actually, as they had only 2 naps. Just read with interest IsitMe's comment about naps being very difficult just before they drop to 2.

Mealtimes also different today, which maybe helped the naps to move: didn't do breakfast until 830 instead of 730 (DH and I so zombie like after last night we couldn't manage it any earlier ), which meant they had a milk feed at 7.30/8 (usually don't have one until just before morning nap)

So, we shall see what happens but if it works better, routine will look a bit like this - can you tell me if you think this looks right for 9mo?

0630 wake
0730 milk feed
0830 breakfast
1030 nap
12.30?? lunch (nap was 11 and lunch 1 today but I think nap should have been slightly earlier)
3.30/4ish nap
5.30 tea
6.30 bath and bed by 7.30 latest

Sleep well

ROutine looks great to me and similar to ours at 9months. He then started pushing the pm nap later and later but they are still all over the place. I think naps are tres difficile to work out.... Really annoying. Only thing I did differently to you was give milk not in the morning (as had it at night) but mid morn, mid pm and bedtime (so before naps generally).

I spoke too soon about sleep improving but I have to admit that after feeding at 1.30am last night, when he woke for a 4.30am feed I ignored him to see if he would go back to sleep. After crying for 5 mins, he was def winding down, so I left him some more. It took a bit longer than I meant but with a little on and off crying he went back to sleep. Will be trying that in a few days / weeks (water, in and out, leave a bit - stop the night feeds) as DS is nearly one!

Hi there. Well I am biting the bullett and joining you. My DS is 7months old and further away from sleeping through than ever before. He is currently rolling over onto his tummy +++ and getting arms/legs stuck. He woke up 6 times on friday and saturday night-YUK! I lost track of what times. The last of our fellow NCT crew started sleeping through last week, so I am now officially the solitary knackered mummy!! I'm no longer feeding at night, apart from 10ish dream feed. I am looking forward to sharing our woes success stories

Hi bellamysbride and welcome!

One thing... I wouldn't worry about your fellow NCT groupers - I was told all my friends had babies who would sleep through, but it turns out that a couple of months later some of them are still working hard at trying to get them to sleep through after all!

DD decided last night that she was going to go back to her good schedule of bed at 6:30, wake at 12:30 for feed, wake at 6:30 for the day. Hooray! She doesn't roll though (She rolls front to back, but not back to front) so we don't have quite the same problem!

Fingers crossed for better nights for us all!

Welcome Bellamysbride and sorry you have to join. I am sure there are a LOT of lurkers out there thinking about joining too.

Know how it feels to be the last one awake at night. How depressing. But it is very normal and I agree with Galena that you think it is the case but often is not!

Hope good nights all round tonight. I am trying the knackering out DS tactic at the moment - lots of walking in new places and swimming etc...

1stMrsF - that routine looks about same as our DS at that age (and still now), apart from he gets BFs during the day as well.

I've read in a number of sleep books (when will I learn to stop reading them? ) various times that you should never, under any circumstances, allow your 9mo to nap after. I think I've variously read 3.30/4/4.30. We've woken our DS up if he's still napping at 4.30 as we are superstitious about doing anything that might interfere with his night's sleep. Has anybody else had experience with this, as his naps do seem to be getting later and later?

Welcome bellamysbride - sorry you have to join us. My NCT group have had lots of sleeps disruptions post 6 months, but whatever happens, it feels as if my DS is still worse.

Well done to babybellamy for cutting down to just a dreamfeed. Do you think it's the rolling that's waking him up at the mo, or something else?

We don't let DD sleep after 5. She needs something between 2ish and bedtime, and we've found she generally goes off somewhere between 3 and 4:30 for 45 mins. If she doesn't get it she's foul! That said, she sometimes wakes up from the nap in the most appalling mood and is like that till bed!

Oh, and 1stMrsF, that routine looks fairly similar to ours. DD is 9 months, although only 6 months if you go by her due date. She tends to have 3 naps but they are only 45 mins long. She wakes at 6:30, bf at about 7, breakfast about 8, sometimes bf mid morning, nap around 10:30, lunch at 12, nap about 12:30, bottle at 3, nap about 3:30, tea at 5:30, bath 6:15ish, bf to bed by 7:15 or thereabouts.

The naps are fairly moveable feasts - depends on what we're doing. If we're out, she keeps going longer and then will sleep in the car. If we're in she has more naps.

She only woke once again last night - at 2:10. I thought this might mean she would go later this morning - how wrong could I be?! Still 6:30 wakeup. At least it's not before 6. I used to have to wake at 6:15 for work, so it's not too painful. Maybe she picked up on that while I was pregnant.