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Sleep

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Original poster

Still only 4 hours at 12 weeks

89 replies

Hughsie · 21/05/2003 16:53

Help - ds2 still only sleeps for 4 hours at 12 weeks old - breastfeeding with one bottle (formula) which makes no difference to the length of sleep - only sleeps for 1.5 hours in a row in the day also with cat naps of half an hour here and there. What can I do to help this situation? Getting desperate as have to cope with a 2 yr old ds1 and new baby in the day on little sleep.

Need sympathy if nothing else?

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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Mum2Toby · 21/05/2003 16:54

Have you thought about trying to wean him? Ds wanted weaned quite early on. Even just a bit of really milky baby rice at bedtime.

Original poster

Hughsie · 21/05/2003 17:08

I'm not sure - arent you supposed to wait for their gut to develop?

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Mum2Toby · 21/05/2003 17:15

THe recommendation is to wait until they are 16 weeks or older, but it is just a recommendation. Every baby is different. You could try it for a few nights. Just a teaspoon full of rice in his formula milk and spoon feed him 3 or 4 spoonfuls of the mixutre. It should sit heavier in his tummy. If after the first night he shows signs of constipation just wait another couple of weeks and try again.

My friend did this at 10 wks and her daughter slept all night from then on. It's worth a try.

Original poster

Hughsie · 21/05/2003 17:20

Thanks M2T

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elliott · 21/05/2003 17:20

sympathy in buckets here, my ds was very similar, and its at about this time that people start asking questions about whether they're going 'through the night' yet...'nowhere near' I would mutter through gritted teeth...

What's his sleep pattern like? My ds would actually settle quite well at around 7-8, and would have his longest block of sleep from then until around 1-2am or occasionally longer (so actually around 6 hours) However once he'd woken it would be 2-3hourly thereafter so I would generally have two night feeds. I did try the waking at 10 thing but he would then only go around 4 hours after that - sometimes enough to mean only one night feed but often not, and then he started waking spontaneously in the evening so I almost wish I had left him to his own patterns.
I ended up starting solids at 16 weeks precisely - combination of deteriorating sleep and almost no weight gain. within a month he was pretty well sleeping through and has generally been an excellent sleeper. I'd do the same again despite the b*** WHO recommendations....

Not sure if that is remotely of any help to you except to say don't despair, hopefully it will get better before too long (though I know it feels like forever when you're doing it...)

elliott · 21/05/2003 17:21

I'm not sure I'd do anything about solids at this early stage though, unless there are other signs that he needs them - is he gaining weight ok?

aloha · 21/05/2003 17:43

I can totally understand how desperate you are - my son was 8months before he slept through and never slept for any real length of time for months and months and months. I nearly went mad and felt so tearful with exhaustion at times.
I assume you mean his longest stretch of sleep is four hours at night - does he do two four hours or just one then wakes every hour or so? If he's doing two four hour stints then I think that's very, very good!! I thought that only one waking between 11pm and 6am was good though. BUT - I really don't recommend weaning so very early. Certainly not before 16 weeks. I came under so much pressure to do so, gave my ds some rice etc at 15 weeks and it made no bloody difference at all. Not a jot. Just made my life more complicated. It had nothing to do with his erratic sleep. In the end two things helped him sleep better. Putting him down for a nap two hours after he woke (Gina Ford tip) regardless of whether he seemed tired. And again after lunch. In his cot in a dark room. I let him cry for five minutes or so only and he reasonably quickly got the hang of it - esp the morning nap. I also eventually did a bit of cc at 8months, but don't do it at this age, it is far too early. But leaving him to resettle for ten minutes is OK, IMO. How much is your dh helping? Mine did split shifts with me - either one night on and one night off, or I would sleep 9pm until 4am or so, and then take over while dh slept until 8am - or vice versa, with a proper catch up at the weekend. It really helped, but weaning didn't and I do regret it a bit (though don't feel it did any harm and I don't feel guilty).

aloha · 21/05/2003 17:44

Elliot, your ds sounds exactly like mine was, but I had this until 8months. He's lovely now, though, and I have sort of forgotten the agony...

Original poster

Hughsie · 21/05/2003 17:57

He is generally sleeping from about 9.30pm - 1.30 then about 3 - 5.30 then up again at 7.30 ish - 4 is his longest stretch after b/f only 3/4 hours after bottle. I too feel that weaning is too early - he is gaining weight and is a big baby. i feel I may have to be more structured with naps but fail to manage when juggling family demands - i feel drained by the sleep pattern but pleased that he is not unhappy - no colic anymore just wants feeding/cuddling too regularly!

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edgarcat · 21/05/2003 17:57

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edgarcat · 21/05/2003 17:57

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edgarcat · 21/05/2003 18:00

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Original poster

Hughsie · 21/05/2003 18:01

Iknow E - tempting isn't it - but at least yours ins younger ad you can hang on to the hope that it will improve by three months - I'm beginning to think he has settled in to a permanent pattern - stress of builders is not helping!

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pupuce · 21/05/2003 18:43

Bfeore adding rice to bottles which I do not think is safe and doesn't not work always.... I would try reading GF as she does have good tips. You don't have to follow her routines.

elliott · 21/05/2003 19:30

Hughsie I was trying to say that I don't think this kind of sleep at 12 weeks is 'setting a permanent pattern' - just that it is a bit early unfortunately to be able to do a great deal about it. I really struggled with daytime sleeps with my ds - he found it really hard to get himself to sleep in the daytime (though he managed it beautifully at night) - but again it did work out in the end. For the nights, I always knew that I would do cc if he wasn't sleeping through by 6 months and didn't really expect the solids to make the difference that they did.
I know people who have managed to soothe their babies back to sleep without a feed if they are waking very frequently but I never managed it at this stage.
aloha you are right that you forget the horror of it - unfortunately all coming back to me now that I face doing it again in six months time!!

Original poster

Hughsie · 21/05/2003 19:44

Thanks I appreciate your advice.

He doesn't sleep for long in the days and always need to be rocked to sleep or the carseat/pram treatment to get him off. I just feel frustrated at not having a longer stretch to get a decent amount of sleep in say 6 hours - is that too much to ask? I dont really think I can influence it but may try the GF ideas to see if I can change things.

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edgarcat · 21/05/2003 19:46

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Original poster

Hughsie · 21/05/2003 20:00

I think that is the hardest part about it - that ds1 slept well. He suffered badly with colic but slept well in the night. Also lack of aleep is harder when you have other children who dont understand that you are shattered.

Felt quite tearful today and emotional at the slightest thing.

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florenceuk · 21/05/2003 20:30

Sorry to be discouraging, but I found DS got significantly worse at 12 wks - from going through with two four hour stretches he started waking at 12, then 3, then five (or 11, then 2, then 4) and so on. Meanwhile all my friend's babies were sleeping through! I think it is partly that they are beginning to go through definite sleep cycles now, and so wake up and because they get fed back to sleep, get into a bit of a pattern. 1.5hrs in a row during the day is not too bad though, DS used to sleep for half an hour at the most unless being walked in the buggy. Could you time this to coincide with your toddler's nap time, so you could grab a nap as well?

I didn't sleeptrain til 6.5mths, but I think Weissbluth(?) has something on sleep at 3 mths, might be worth a look? Mind you he is definitely at the tougher end of the sleep training spectrum. Lots of sympathy - it was hard enough with one, let alone a toddler as well to cope with!

mears · 21/05/2003 20:33

Hughsie - are you getting any sleep yourself during the afternoon or early evening, when your 2 year old goes to bed? Rather than praying for the baby to sleep - which might not happen for a while yet - you should concentrate on banking sleep. When the baby sleeps, get your feet up. Can anyone take them both out for a few hours for you? You might find that you will be able to cope better if you are not too tired.
I definately would not recommend early weaning - it will not necessarily solve the problem ( you knew I would say that anyway). Hope things will get better soon. Keep positive thoughts about what a wonderful job you are doing (doesn't really help does it?0.

Original poster

Hughsie · 21/05/2003 22:17

It does help to hear that I am doing a good job and boosts me when I am feeling low - so thank you.

I do try to rest but we are having an extension built so it is quite noisy and they keep asking questions so not that easy to conk out for half an hour - my neighbour has kindly looked after my eldest and has taken teh baby for a walk too when I was frazzled - all helps and I try to put it in context that I am lucky to have two beautiful boys BUT the sleep would help!

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motherinferior · 22/05/2003 09:16

Oh honey, it WILL get better. I remember similar scenarios SOO well (and am dreading them in seven weeks' time - dp goes grey, literally, at the prospect). I also remember feeling really embarrassed at all the other babies who appeared to be sleeping like logs - got myself into complete tizzy of 'shame' at my own babe.

My only tip - and it DID work for me - was noting, around this time, that dd didn't actually need feeding at night, and that I was feeding her every time she rustled, and that if I left it till she actually made a noise she would quite often go back to sleep again (in fact she suddenly started sleeping through the night but I think I was VERY lucky).

I think Ferber says you can sleep train from four months...

Original poster

Hughsie · 22/05/2003 09:35

I think you are right but this morning I feel like a rotten mum for not feeding - essentially he missed an 8oz bottle yesterday because I didn't feed him when he stirred - bad mum ,..guilt!

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motherinferior · 22/05/2003 09:40

If he didn't wake up and fuss, he didn't miss it. Babies aren't bothered about anybody else's needs or routine! You are being a good mum for loving him and worrying about him. Honestly.

And you can say the same to me when I start going nananananas in a couple of months!

Original poster

Hughsie · 22/05/2003 09:53

Thenk you - I'm sure you're a good mum as you also must have a downer on yourself due to your nickname - perhaps we should all give ourselves a break sometimes!

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