Ways to get my 4 month old to sleep better at night?

[Schulte]

DD2 (nearly 4 months) had weeks of sleeping really well, going to bed at 7.30pm, settling herself to sleep, waking up for one feed at 4am. Then she had her first set of jabs at 12 weeks and all hell broke loose. She got diarrhoea and started waking up several times a night to poo and feed. Her first waking of the night happened earlier and earlier until I decided I might as well introduce a dream feed. But now her poos are finally back to normal and I need her sleep pattern to improve again, as I am permanently exhausted.

Currently she goes to bed at 7.30, self settles, has a dream feed at 10pm, then wakes around 2am. Sometimes I can get her back to sleep without a feed at that time (by rubbing her tummy or giving her the occasional dummy), then she'll wake up for a feed around 3.30. After that, she'll sleep a little, then wake up again at 5.45 and I have to take her into bed with me to get another half hour before DD1 gets up for the day! So all in all, I am up three times a night. What I want her to do is 5-6 hours after her dream feed. Surely that's not asking too much at this age?!

So what do I do?

Simply not feed her before 4am in the hope that she'll eventually get the message and not bother waking up?

Try to fill her up with a bottle of formula at 10pm?

Feed her at 2am but make that feed shorter and shorter until she drops it herself?

Drop the dream feed - actually I have tried that and she wakes up for it now because she's used to it!

Give up trying to change her sleep pattern and pray that she'll sort herself out some time soon?

Sorry for epic post but I feel you need all the information... Any ideas greatly appreciated!

Frekkles - top tip - download some meditation tracks from itunes and listen to those when you can sleep in the middle of the night. Had chronic insomnia for a couple of months after having DS1 and it really helped me through those times as my brain was at least switching off so I felt semi-rested. If you're not already doing it, try white noise on minifrekkles - may help extend their sleep periods - and swaddle if they like it (also a god send - though DS2 stopped being swaddled at 4 months as he wanted to roll everywhere and explore his hands and feet all night long).

Bed by 7:30, woke up at 10 when DH came in and shut door, but she went back to sleep by herself after about 8 mins of crying (hooray!) Then she woke at 3am, left her to cry for 10 mins, went in and soothed her, went back to bed and fell asleep within seconds so no idea how long she cried for but it didn't wake me and DH back up so I guess not long. Then she woke at 6:10am, I fed her and put her back to bed (normally I would have brought her into bed with me at this point and fed her lying down to get the extra sleep) and then DH got up to take dog for walk at normal 7am time and went into nursery to get nappy sacks (run out of poo bags for dog) and was surprised to see her in there fast asleep - he thought she was cuddled in with me as normal! He did manage not to wake her at least and she then woke up for the day at 7:45am.

So it feels like we're getting there! Still waiting for the day she doesn't stir till past 5:30am...

It's Date Night tonight, so I bet she starts shouting as soon as I get me kecks off - grrr.

Sorry Schulte - how rude of me - how is it going with you? Have you still decided just to go with the flow?

So Boobz your DD is 5 months and with the controlled crying she now manages without a feed all night? After being used to a feed every 2-3 hours? Is that right? Did you just go cold turkey? I am asking because if it's working for you, I might do something similar soon. Schulte here with a new name

Not quite Feierabend... I'm still feeding her at least once. Last night she went to bed at 7, cried at 1:35 for an hour (I had to go in and change her nappy and shh/pat her twice, and she then fell asleep at about 2:30. She then woke up again at 4:55 and I fed her, and then she went back to sleep until 7 this morning, and as it's Saturday morning, everyone piles into our bed to get another hour's kip (dog, cat, DH, baby and me! - it's a squeeze.... if the dog doesn't get in with us, she insists on being walked right that minute).

So since we started this on Weds, she has had to be fed once at about 4am ish (apart from Thurs night when she got to 6ish) as I'm too scared to go cold turkey and make her go the WHOLE night without food, but at least we are improved on the 4 or 5 feeds we used to be doing. I reason to myself that it's reasonable to be hungry once, but not 4 or 5 times...

So it's sort of working... but nothing miraculous yet. I will go cold turkey once she's been on solids a couple of weeks, I think.

Let me know how it goes for you if you try it too. I'm pretty pleased with the progress so far.... and I now know for sure that she really doesn't need to eat all those times.

xx

Must say, I'm a fan of the tough love approach. I think the greatest gift you can give your child is the gift of settling themselves back to sleep. We had a tough time with our first born...he needed so much intervention throughout the night and the day, to get over asleep. Eventually, I speed-read the Baby Whisperer and started on a 3 day sleep training regime when he was 10 weeks. Actually, it only took 2 days as he was still so young....on day 3, he was settling himself and hardly crying at all.
Had twins in November 08 and did the Baby Whisperer EASY routine from day one and they have been dream babies, sleeping great in the day and through the night at 8 weeks and 12 weeks.
I think if you teach your child how to sleep early on, by the time you get to the growth spurts, development spurts, they are able to sleep through these changes as the good habits have been established early. I defo concur with the 8/9 month change in sleeping habits. My girls do wake more and often sit up in the cot at night but they know they don't need me to settle back to sleep so they don't cry. Maybe I'm lucky...all I know is that the sleep training wasn't easy but it worked. Good luck! x

dingdong - what exactly did you do? Just not pick them up when they were crying and you knew they needed to sleep? I am quite happy to be strict too, I was with DD1 and she's always been a good sleeper. DD2 however seems to be quite a different character.

Last night:

7pm: Bed (Penny)
10:30pm: (Bed - Date Night, so not straight to sleep either)
01:30am: Penny crying. Cries for 5 mins, at which point I am about to go in and then she lets rip the most almighty fart and goes back to sleep. Phew.
02:30am: Dog starts banging crate.
02:45am: Hit Ed to wake up and deal with dog... say something along the lines of "WHY DO I HAVE TO DEAL WITH BABY AND DOG FOR FUCK'S SAKE!"
02:46am: Ed gets up with dog who goes screeching downstairs and runs around garden for 2 mins chasing imaginary woodland creature.
02:50am: Ed and dog return and dog goes back to sleep. Phew.
03:30am: Penny starts crying. Don't have the will-power to do CC so feed her. She goes back to sleep.
06:10am: Penny starts singing show tunes. I turn off monitor.
07:00am: Get up and bring Penny into bed and feed her lying down. Dog gets into bed. Cat gets into bed. Ed starts to complain he doesn't have enough duvet and his arse is hanging out the side. Everyone goes back to sleep. Phew.
08:30am: Get up and come downstairs to discover my phone charger has been chewed apart in 8 different places. Apparently there WAS a woodland creature in the house last night. I apologise to dog.

So now I have to buy a new phone charger as well as try to catch up on several hours lost sleep last night.

SOB.

Lol...forgot my user name is ding dong! Just keep thinking of Gok Wan saying it in 'how to look good naked'!!
To answer your question, Feierabend, yes, I just didn't pick my son up once I knew he had been fed, winded, changed and was starting to do what the baby whisperer calls the 'nine mile stare', where they gaze into space...or her three yawns rule, where you put them down after they yawn twice. According to BW, if they yawn three times, they get a second wind and start to get over-tired. It's a bit anal, I know, but it worked. The first day I did it, DS cried so much (and so did I) but I was just so worn out and wanted this to work, so I perservered. On day 2, he got the message that I was not going to rock or nurse him to sleep and cried less, though he did still cry every time I put him down. On day 3, not a tear...I was ecstatic! It was easier with the twins as I was forced in a way not to rock them to sleep or hold them too much as there were two of them so I just wasn't able to but they have just been the best sleepers from the start.
I really hope this helps you...sounds like you are at the end of your tether. Good luck! x

Mini break through. DD put to bed at 7pm, didn't stir till 3am... fed her for 10 mins, straight back to sleep and then I had to wake her at 7am this morning (8am doc's appointment). So it looks like we're at least getting back to once a night waking instead of 4 or 5... whoopee! I feel almost human again this morning!

Another couple of weeks of this and then I think I will try and phase out the 3am feed (she'll be nearly 6 months by then)... she'll also be on solids which I hope will help.

How's it going with you Feierabend?

xx

Last night not too bad... dreamfeed at 10.30, then dd2 stirred a bit at 2.30 and farted, then went back to sleep . Fed at 3.45 and after that it's a bit of a blur... there was a lot of shuffling at some point and dh had to get up at 5am so I was awake for a while. She had her next feed at 6.45 and then we snoozed a bit more. So all in all it's been bearable.

Boobz, sounds like you're making progress, well done!

Hi Boobz,

When you started the process, did you leave Penny to cry without intervening, or did you comfort her intermittently?

Feierabend - sounds like things are improving.

Things are terrible here!

Oh Ginger, not you too What is it with these little people?!!

and terrible here also

lil frekkles now decided to go to bad at 8pm, wake at half 11, half two, four, six and 8.

atleast my insomnia is a bit better though.

zzzzzzzzz

Ah Frekkles, similar night here. And then dh kept me awake after the 4am feed by shuffling and snoring will make him sleep on the sofabed tonight.

Hello Frekkles and Feierabend - sorry to hear you haven't had restful nights.
We had a better night last night than the one before, once V got properly off to sleep, but she was fussing and crying till well after 9 - she used to go out like a light between 7 and 7.30. Then she woke once for a feed and once soon after - I persuaded her back to sleep the second time.

Today I am going to feed her as much as possible to see if that helps. But the early unsettledness can't have anything to do with hunger.

Ugh, I am so over this - I had no idea sleeping would revert, I thought things got steadily better...

Good luck everyone

Hi guys! Ginger, it kind of works like this: Penny wakes up and starts crying... I wait 10 mins before going in. On several occasions, she's settled herself back to sleep in this amount of time (which I didn't know she could do as I always went and fed her as soon as I heard her, up until this point), and sometimes a fart or other such shuffle gets her back off to sleep. If she's still crying after 10 mins, I go in and shh / pat her for a minute and then leave again. When I first started this, it took up to 90 mins to get her to settle back (argh - made my heart break!) but now I can shh / pat her once or twice and she goes back off (so perhaps 20 mins crying max).

Last night was bed at 7, up at 2:30 for feed and then up for day at 6:30. Hmm - think we're going backwards again here. Still, it's only one night feed so I can't really complain - is still a helluva lot better than this time a week or 10 days ago.

Am thinking of installing a dream feed (never done one before) - do you all do dream feeds?

Boobz - I am constantly debating whether to do a dream feed or not. When DD was tiny she slept better without one - basically it didn't make any difference to when she'd first wake up for a night feed. She'd go from 7.30pm to somewhere between 2am and 4am, dream feed or not. Then things started going horribly wrong and she woke up earlier and earlier for her first feed, so I introduced a dream feed thinking I might as well. I have stuck with it for the past 6 weeks or so in the hope that she'll eventually do what her big sister did and sleep from 10pm to 6am! However, no signs of that happening . Often she wakes up anyway at 10pm so dropping the dream feed doesn't seem an option for me at the moment. I know though that some babies sleep better with, some better without and I don't know which category DD falls into now but I am scared to experiment!

Hi Boobz - thank you for the explanation - looks like it works.

Thinking positive: when V's sleeping first settled down after being all newborn and all over the place, it was a very sudden improvement - so I suppose the next positive step might be just as sudden.

We have never done a dream feed, I didn't think it made her sleep longer afterwards so I didn't see the point - I think I still think that.

Keep your fingers crossed for me tonight... I have tried to up DD's milk intake by offering her both breasts at every feed... she used to have only one side. Might it help?

fingers very crossed for you, Boobz.

I am listening to crying and watching the clock... this is horrible

I had the same both breasts idea today too - but the not settling in the evening problem was never hunger, I think

Ginger, it is horrible and I remember doing it with DD1 when she was only 8 weeks old. It did work though, you just have to be strong and consistent. Good luck!

Thanks! Crying sounds now replaced by thumb sucking sounds - but for how long?