So have abandoned cc and sleep training - is this pattern ok or am I setting myself up for some future nightmare?

[Badgerqueen]

I posted last week having failed traumatically with cc and we have got a bit more in order. Brought bedtime back to 6:30 and adjusted routine so its really clear and the same each night. DD has bottle in sitting room with us, quietly, no telly, then book in bedroom, song and cuddle and into cot. She is very sleepy, snuggles down and we stay with a hand on her for the 3 minutes until she is definitely off.
So she usually wakes between 6 - 6.30am naps at 12 to 1.30 and bath and bed between 6 - 6.30. Unfortunately she also woke last night after 3 good nights, at 3am and I had to take her in with us.

Is she putting herself to sleep or are we doing it for her? I can't tell anymore.

how old is she?

Just reduce the time you have your hand on her a bit like Pick Up Put Down, take your hand off whilst she is awake, she complains, put your hand back on until she calms, take it off again etc etc

If you do this at every nap time then do the hand thing every time IYSWIM.

She is a very lovely 14 months. I am worried though that we are going to be back to a situation we had where she couldn't put herself back if she woke in the night. Naps have been (touch wood)pretty much okay - mainly because she is shattered by 12ish. \

Cargirl - I worry though that the hand thing will escalate to the patting and stroking thing, the rocking and singing thing, the picking up and bringing out theing and the the general meltdown thing (me, DD1, DH AND her)!

Also, if a child is overtired (usually through no fault of their own - eg we were traveling or shopping or I mis-timed things) - shouldn't they get a bit of help to settle and that be ok?

Here is me whittering on last week when we were having a miserable time.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/791256-Sleep-training-with-controlled-crying-is-7-nights-and-no

I think I have just lost all confidence at the mo and am getting pressure from CM to get her to settle herself so that the days she is with her can be more flexible.

Well that was my point of reducing the need for her to have the hand, slowly cut it down and then out altoghether so you don't provide the sleep prop at all.

I'm not saying do PUPD I mean stop doing the hand thing in the PUPD manner, take it off and then put it back on IYSWIM?

No I see, its me that will escalate it if she wiggles or cries, Dh better, more detached. Its always me who picks her up first.

Hi again Badgerqueen! Sounds like things are a lot calmer now - congrats!

In your shoes, I would do it this way for a week, and then try the Penelope Leach thing I described on the other thread: settle her down, then leave the room, come back and reassure her every time she cries. This worked a treat for DD, and she was happy to be put in the cot and go to sleep on her own after 2 nights.

There are worse things in the world than cuddling with your child or patting her back. 14 months is quite an age; walking, sequences, understanding instructions, starting to talk and those bloody molars hurting like hell.

Hello Highondiesel (is that name from a song lyric? Its been bugging me all weekend!), think that's what we will do the only problem is that she has been up in the middle of the night twice now and can't put herself back at all - was in absolute despair last night at 2:30 Dh had to deal, really started considering doing CC again but he said that it would be cruel if we did it and gave up again.
We seem to have a choice - settled evenings and bad nights or bad evenings and settled night (we never seem to nail the early mornings).

Ches you are right and that is partly my problem, I actually would like to fall asleep with her in my arms and have her in with us (if she didn't wiggle and kick and prevent both of us from sleeping at all!). There is so much going on in her head, she understands everything and we are getting new words daily at the moment, I just need her to sleep properly so we can function as a family and I can feel human some of the time.

Badgerqueen, it's a Suede lyric! (The Beautiful Ones.)

Sounds hard work at the moment, DD also had a very unsettled phase when she was just starting to walk and talk at the same time.

I would carry on with your bedtime routine, and maybe the nights will improve. Good luck!

i just put dd into her own bed when i was up to it, let her sleep with us when i was too tired to move, slept in the spare bed if necessary, and officially started getting her to sleep on her own when she was about two/two and a half.

she is now over three and has absolutely no issues with sleep. 12 hrs solid, out of nappies, dry, content and asks to go to bed when she is tired.

i think sleep training works far better when they have communication and understand reasoning.