3 sleep issues in one!

[fifitot]

Any ideas most welcome. My main issue with DD (nearly 3) is that she wakes really early. 5ish. We have never found a way to change this so we just get up early and go to bed early. I used to console myself with the fact that she would go off to sleep really easily at 7 and sleep through.

Alas not true anymore. She will not go to sleep for ages at night now. Wants me to stay and stroke her back, often takes 45 mins to get her off. Also now wakes 2-3 times in the night and wants me to rub her back again! Screams if I don't!

Don't know what to tackle! She gets up so early that she is shattered at 12 ish and will sleep for an hour easily. At nursery she still has the nap and tbh if she doesn't she is so hyper at night anyway dropping it may not make much difference.

Help!

I don't know what to say in terms of advice but she sounds like my 2yo. I've just come on to post a load of stuff about her and her/our lack of sleep.

Has she started a new nursery or anything that could have triggered it? Not that it will solve it but might help you understand...?

If it's worth anything, I was reminiscing that I used to sit stroking my dd1's back when she went to sleep until she was at least 3, and she slept through very reliably. So I don't think you are causing her to wake up by doing this for her. It's bound to be something else that's bothering her.

Thanks jellybelly.

Hi fifitot

My sympathies to you, you must be shattered.

It sounds to me like you need to get tough and tackle this sleep issue as if you were guiding a baby.

I would think about looking at supernanny or Gina Ford's Toddler book. Both have excellent advice about getting toddlers into good sleep routines.

I did Gina with my toddler and now with my 6wk DD and both are doing well.
My DS is 2y 8m and sleeps from 7 to 7 in his own bed, I've never had a problem since following Gina.
My DD is up once in the night to feed and is down from 7 to 7, again from following Gina.
If you haven't read her I'd suggest giving it a go, she and supernanny are very sensible approaches NOT the dreadful extremes you hear from those who haven't actually read the books.

If you tackle it now you won't have this for the years to come. My sis has an 11y DD who still has sleep difficulties and get into bed with her parents every night. Her younger sibling was brought up on Gina and sleeps through with no problems.

Good luck !

Thanks GMac - tbh I have avoided the approaches of Gina Ford and Supernanny. I read GF when DD was a baby and didn't agree with her approach.

I don't go for a kind of quasi behaviourist approach which is what they offer but I know some swear by it and I guess you could say 'reap what you sow' .

I quite like Tanya Byron so may revisit her.

Thanks for your suggestions though.

It sounds as though she is getting increasingly overtired,and that is making it harder for her to go to sleep-try moving her bedtime earlier by half an hour or even an hour.It worked wonders with my dd,she went from a hyper child taking an age to get to sleep,to just zonking out in ten mins or less,right away.If she has a late night then it is really hard for her to switch off.

I think helly may have a good point about becoming overtired. When i lie down with my lo at around 8.30pm i always dose off yet when i go to bed around 11pm i find it hard to get to sleep, and can be awake in bed until after midnight.

I too do not like the GF approach but being firm was what made my oldest 2 eventually sleep thru. When they asked to get in my bed i'd say i'd get into theirs, then gradually moved nto me saying hold on i'm just going to the loo then i'll come in for a bit, then they fall asleep while they wait

I also use the door being open and night light being on as a bagaining tool. No noisey nonsense or the light goes off, no screaming for milk/mummy/to stay up or getting up etc It works a treat.

Good luck, sleep deprivation so hard.

fifi 2 things - how long is your lo's nap? and have you read any of the threads about early waking and this wake-to-sleep stuff? idea is you set your alarm for an hour before they wake up (for you 4am) rouse her so she's stirring (opens eyes a bit) but not fully awake, then let her fall asleep again and she will have reset her body clock to sleep for longer.

I agree with others that if she's getting up so early and also taking ages to go to sleep she's missing an hour or so that she was getting before and hence it is making her over tired and less likely to co=operate.

wrt the nap - my dd2 usually sleeps for 2 hours or more and wakes up in a total terror and really disorientated. Today she woke after an hour, and went to sleep in 15 mins including a story and a song, which compared to the normal HOUR of nonsense was a dream. It may have been a coincidence but will see what happens tomorrowk, am going to set my alarm to wake her after an hour.

I tried WTS last summer to no avail but may try again.

I think maybe the nap should go or I should shorten it. It's a flaming nightmare!

i've never tried wts but it's cropping up a lot at the moment proba due to early sunrise... i really dont' know how you cope with getting up at 5am i struggle loads with her waking at 6.30..

woke dd2 from nap after 1h10mins today, she got up very happily and went to sleep in about 15 mins again. Much better. So now we just need to work on the waking up at night thing!

What time is your dd's nap? I really think that anything after about 2pm seems to totally screw up dd2's bedtime.