co-sleeping - what to cover DD with & other questions...

[LuluLulabelle]

Ok, so it seems that I've become a part time co-sleeper. DD (13 weeks) has started waking every hour and a half to feed at night (she seems genuinely hungry most of the time so I am happy to go with this).

She sleeps well in her moses basket for the start of the night but after about 11pm I can be up out of bed feeding/settling her upto 5 or 6 times.

So, I've been putting her in bed with me after her longest stretch of sleep. Last night I lay on my side, curled around her and she sort on snuggled her head into my underarm (delightful, I know!). I fed her at 5-ish and she felt a bit sweaty (damp hair & back of neck).

I don't want her to overheat but at the same time, I was freezing trying to keep the duvet away from her. So this morning I have some questions I hope some of you can help with:

• She sleeps in a 2.5 tog sleeping bag in her basket - is this too much for bed?

• Should I move her further down the bed so that my arm isn't around her head?

• How on earth do I stay warm but with easy access for BF? I'm usually a duvet-pulled-up-to-the-neck kind of sleeper.

• Can I sleep in any other position than my side?

Thanks for that Sarah. I did plenty of research and talked to several doctors and health visitors (and my MW) before deciding that bedsharing was right for us as a family. Have you seen what the RCM have said in reaction to that news story? news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8021456.stm

Whilst I respect the work of the FSID, that report doesn't mention a) the number of children that suddenly die in cots, buggies elsewhere or b)the cause of death. If it was suffocation due to bed sharing then that is different to SIDS.

OP, foxytocin is quite an authority on co-sleeping perhaps she'll be around to give some advice. I'd recommend the book, Three in a bed by Deborah Jackson

I'd also recommend Three in a bed, I really enjoyed reading it (should have probably picked it up again before starting this thread).

Also, when I have asked for advice on co-sleeping, I mean DD sharing our bed and not me and her sleeping on the sofa. I wouldn't have thought it was safe to sleep on the sofa with your LO. It doesn't seem fair to group bed & sofa sleeping together.

Hi there - a few answers!

One report showed that 31 / 50 cot deaths investigated in one area were cosleeping. This seems quite high to me.

Out of these 31 cot deaths, 22 deaths happened in the parents bed, 2 were on mattresses and 7 were on a sofa. So it looks straight off like a risky practice.

However , the press release does show that if you or your partner are smokers (even if you don't smoke in bed), have been drinking alcohol or take drugs that make you drowsy then bedsharing increases the risk of cot death. In addition there is a risk of accidents including suffocation. So, if you have no risk factors you might decide to bedshare and this is your choice as a parent.

Yes it is true that sadly babies can die of cot death anywhere - even in the parents arms, there seems to be something about bedsharing.

Have I got the figures right here:

2 on mattresses
7 on sofas
22 in parents bed

which leaves 19 presumably in cots/child sleeping alone?

I would imagine that parents who do not co-sleep are just as likely to nap on the sofa with their baby as co-sleepers so I would be inclined to take the 7 sofa deaths out of the stats which leaves 24 co-sleeping deaths v 19 deaths when baby is alone (48% & 38%).

I would like to know how many of the co-sleeping deaths involved smoker/drug taking parents etc. Did they follow co-sleeping safety guidance?

I was on some heavy painkillers after DD was born and so wouldn't consider co-sleeping with her - I was aware of the risk. Also if the baby suffocated because of a parent sleeping on them I don't think that counts as SIDS does it? Because it can be explained?

I was just going to make the same points lulululabelle.
I'd wager that several of the co-sleeping deaths did involve smoking/dinking/drugs etc. If those were also taken out of the equation, it could swing the odds completely in favour of co-sleeping.

These sort of statistics are completely unhelpful without the circumstances outlined.

Hi there - I wanted to put this information out on Mumsnet not specifically for you but for all parents. FSID's remit is to give parents information on how to protect their baby from cot death. The largest ever studies on this, not reported in the press release out today, show that babies are safest sleeping in a cot in their parents' room - roomsharing. Cot death is more likely if parents smoke or have been drinking etc and then bedshare. In the absence of these factors babies are still safest in a cot in the parents room but parents may opt to bedshare. Falling asleep on a sofa is highly risky.

You are right that babies are also accidentally suffocated in a parents bed and this would not count as cot death. These figures are to be added to those given above.

You are right that many of these deaths may have had risk factors. We know from experience that sadly cot death can happen even if there are not any risk factors present. There is one very good interview with a cot death parent you can see at

I think its right that FSID give out information on how to protect babies from cot death but I don't think it is as clear cut as saying more children die of SIDS through co-sleeping than in their own cot without backing up the figures.

How many of the co-sleeping deaths involved a parent smoking/drinking/taking drugs, baby getting trapped in a gap between the bed & wall etc?

Not all parents research co-sleeping as much as some on MN and end up doing it anyway out of desperation.

Does FSID issue guidelines on co-sleeping safety? Perhaps this might have as much impact as saying "parents bed = bad, cot = good".

I don't think that FSID is saying that more children die of SIDS through co-sleeping. We are just saying that in a given area there are a good number of bedsharing deaths. As no-one centrally is collecting this information we are issuing all the information that we do have to hand. Certainly more research is needed.

It would be nice to offer guidance of safe bedsharing but there is no research that shows how to make an adult bed safe for a little baby - what covers, what position, how to follow "feet to foot", how to avoid overheating, is your mattress firm with a waterproof cover?

Shame it's not clear cut because it would be an easier message to get across to everyone including those who are not as interested and well-read as yourselves.

Thanks for your interest - over and out.

lulu good for you for fighting your corner there. I think the report is flawed and unhelpful as it's not balanced. Parents of babies that do die of SIDS in the parental bed will blame themselves for the rest of their lives even if they did follow safe co-sleeping practice because of information like this, despite the fact that their baby may well have suffered the same fate sleeping elsewhere. If the cause of death of those 22 co-sleepers was SIDS then that is not caused by co-sleeping. If they were suffocated as a result of overlay or incorrect bedding etc then that is not SIDS so the results don't make sense to me.

I think you've said what I wanted to in a much more concise way gingerninja!

If a baby dies in its parents bed its their fault for co-sleeping but if it dies alone in a cot then its no ones fault.

Indeed, there are people all over the world co-sleeping in places where SIDS is virtually non existent.

In the west all our instincts have been removed because a plethora of loaded information (and i don't mean to devalue what the FSIDS are doing) but we must stop just headline grabbing and be thorough with our research and the information put out through official channels.

After all there is the suggestion that co-sleeping for breatfeeding mothers and babies may actually PREVENT death due to a) the carbon dioxide that a mother breaths out can stimulate a baby to breath, b) baby and mother share a sleep pattern which isn't as deep as, for instance, father and baby or bottle fed mother and baby which apparently means that the baby doesn't enter the deepest stage of sleep which they may not rouse from otherwise. That is a crude attempt at summarising some of the three in a bed info but I have a very wriggly baby on my knee!

What I found weird about that article is the last bit:

"FSID?s director, Joyce Epstein, said: ?May 2009 is FSID?s Save a Baby Month, and because of our experience, we recognise the urgent need to raise awareness of the dangers associated with bed or sofa sharing with your baby."

Okay, so that says 'don't co-sleep'. Next bit says:

"It?s fine to breast feed in bed, but if you smoke at all ? even if not in the bedroom - or you?ve drunk alcohol - you really must protect your baby and put them in their cot to sleep.?

So that says don't sleep if you've been drinking or smoking. Which isn't the same as saying don't do it at all. Is it me or do those two statements not quite join together?!

I agree spice, I don't think they do go together. I think the statement "we recognise the urgent need to raise awareness..." would have been the opportunity to discuss safer ways for mums to bedshare (I've never heard anyone recommend sleeping with dd on the sofa). It seems a bit of a missed opportunity.

I even find Sarahfsid's comment confusing "I don't think that FSID is saying that more children die of SIDS through co-sleeping. We are just saying that in a given area there are a good number of bedsharing deaths."

A "good number" also die alone in their cots. Maybe babies shouldn't sleep alone in their cots either?

I am much more convinced by the value of sleeping together in the same bed - both for the mum and the baby. I wish the FSID wouldn't contract the figures for sofa and bed sleeping into one total - I think it's highly misleading and makes me think they're trying to massage the stats

and actually this graphic www.fsid.org.uk/editpics/clipart-img-525.jpg makes me really pretty cross.

That seems very anti-co-sleeping. I hope they include similar witty graphics for smoking, placing baby on its side/front etc

So all the SIDS aside has anyone suggested you wearing a cardigan?
When my DD was tiny and she was in my bed I'd wear a cardi and duvet up to boobs and she'd have her own blanket from her cot.
I couldn't sleep well like this so only lasted til about 2 weeks old, but a cardigan will keep you warm and Your DCs own blanket will stop them from overheating.

Maybe we just shouldnt let our babies sleep at all! Come on lets start a campaign!

Sorry just find it all very frustrating, SID is very sad for anyone affected but the very nature of it is that its usually unexplained and unavoidable.

I vote for common sense and personal preference

oh I'm glad I wasn't here for last night's discussion! - SIDS is terrifying and must be unimaginably horrible to live through, but if you rule out all bedsharing it does become impossible for some of us. I tried sitting with dd last night until she re-settled after 3am feed and nappy change but there was no way I could sit there quietly and stay awake, so into bed we went. We don't have any risk factors but falling asleep in a chair holding her seems pretty damn risky to me. And putting her back into her cot awake is a total non-starter - most of the time she wakes up and fusses even if she's asleep. I wonder what they'd have us do?

Thanks charmargot, I wore a cardigan the night before last and it made a big difference. I'm ill at the moment though so last night DD slept in her basket while I slept naked with a raging temperature. I got out of bed every 2 hours from 8pm to pick her up and feed her. So along with my swine flu symptoms my back is killing me too!

phdlife, DD is the same - no way I can put her down awake. She just starts chatting to herself and kicking her legs. This usually goes on for 20 minutes and then she gets upset. If I could have had her in bed with me last night I would have done.

Hope you're feeling better soon Lulu.

A friend of mine did fall asleep on a chair and her baby fell off her knee onto a hard floor (thankfully she was OK) so I'm always really careful not to put myself in that position.

When I co-slept with DD1 I used to put her in her gro bag on top of our duvet. Probably not ideal when they start rolling but I kept an arm around her and it kept us all warm and snug. The other thing we did (when she was older) was to have a bed guard and shove her over to one side and me and DH would snuggle under the duvet and tuck it in the end of the bed so that she had her own space that was duvet free. HTH

You know, I'm so glad I've co-slept with both of mine because it is a joy to snuggle with them. (Not so much when they're older and take up more bedspace than an entire football team). For me it helped me bond with DD1 and gave me some wonderful mushy moments in the middle of the night. DD2 is in a sidecar type cot at the moment and I bring her in if she doesn't settle but so far she is much easier to put down so I may not get the experience this time around.

spicemonster- that graphic is awful!! It's hard to take a charity seriously when they come out with sensationalist pic like that and publish the results of a survey that proves nothing

On a happier note, hurrah for bedsharing cos my dd woke up every half hour between 2 and 5 last night and I'd be dead on my feet if she hadn't been in bed with me. I've got PND so I need my sleep to stay healthy so I can look after her.

hi i co sleep with my daughter she is not a good sleeper at all but when she was new born we put her in a bouncer the ones that are soft and rock,we put her on our bed between us.well that worked until she got to big ,now she is 6 months old she wakes up between 3 to 6 am so we put her in with us not good but she lets you know when she is to hot or cold or in the wrong spot,i have 3 boys and then my little girl came along its so diffrent she seems more stroppy than my boys {shock}

well dd fed at midnight and 1am and at 2 she fed and had a new nappy (otherwise she wakes in a puddle), and that was it - she was awake til after 4

there has got to be a way to manage this...

phdlife How did you get on last night? I have just posted this there is hope!

My mum bought us an Amby Hammock yesterday and DD is napping in it as I type - I haven't been able to get her to nap anywhere but on my knee or in the sling since she was born (although my mum managed to lie her on the sofa next to her for 15 minutes once!

It is expensive but I'd have paid anything for a nights sleep and er...my mum actually bought it for us. The guy in the shop only had 2 left and said he noticed they didn't sell well at first but now he keeps selling out. Now I know why!

I hope you managed to get some sleep last night, how old is your dd?