Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

All these mums of 6 month olds, join us on the Dec 08 Postnatal thread. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/773341-Dec-08-mums-embuggerance-to-it-all-sleep-or-no?pg=14

Some sleep deprived, some not so sleep deprived but all lovely ladies!

Also, I wonder if we could find any of the people who originally started this thread and ask them to return as "guest" posters with the answer to the perennial "boob or no boob at 2 am" question?!

Fufulina - Funny that you describe your DD as a good napper. My DS often does 3 or 4 40 minute sleeps (with a lot of help and judicious use of the sling and buggy) but I am so stuck in the sleep book (Baby Whisperer, etc.) mantra that they need to sleep for at least 1 hr or 1.5 hours that I always describe him as a bad napper. Just shows that it is all relative and maybe I should just be happy with my DS's natural napping pattern!

My newly concoted plan is to wait 15 minutes when he peeps in the middle of the night (obviously not if it is full screamy cries...it is normally just peeping, cooing or low grade yelling). If he hasn't settled himself in 15 minutes, I give boob. This is preferable to last night's approach which was for DH to spend 1.5 hours trying to settle him without feeding (me awake listening the whole time) and eventually feeding him one side, then him going back to sleep for 30 minutes and yelling again, then feeding the other side, then finally sleep. All told we were all up from 2:00 to 5:00.

I am also in a state of panic as I am going to visit my parents in Canada for 7 weeks this summer and staying in their little cabin on a lake. Lovely, but the place is tiny and sound travels, so the whole family is going to be up with us every time he wakes. Last time we were there (in May) he started waking up every single hour because I was using the boob to get him back down as soon as he made the slightest sound. Nightmare. Not repeating this mistake, but also dreading the stress of any kind of sleep training with the extended family as witnesses!

Ah well, at least it is hot and sunny today in London and I don't feel like I have PND today. Knackered and fearful of what the night holds, but at least not depressed!

Hi MomOrMum - I have to look on the bright side! NCSS says naps of less than an hour aren't worth having - but my DD cannot go longer than 2 hours without a nap and the 40 mins seems to sort her out (although is it all connected...??). I too did the trying to settle for 1.5 hours - 3 nights ago. Went back in every 5 minutes and it was horrid. Decided not to do that again. Sometimes she is fine with a quick cuddle - but I have decided that if that works, it works pretty much immediately. And if it doesn't - it won't. So boob it is.

Canada for 7 weeks sounds wonderful. I am holding onto the '7.5/8 month and everything settles down' that I've seen on this thread - but to be fair I did that for 3 months, 4 months and 6 months... . But - your DS could be a different sleeper altogether by then. Also in London and also not feeling the PND fear! Bizarre what a bit of a walk in the park can do - even if the thought of it is unbearable.

FWIW, I think the whole 'anything less than 1hr isn't a decent nap' is bollocks not true. DS often still naps for this, or even less (20-30 minutes) if in his buggy or car-seat and he still appears to be alive. He used to have four or even five naps a day, which used to drive me bonkers but that was what he seemed to want/need (I think it mainly drove me bonkers too because I could imagine the Baby Whisperer wagging her finger at me!) Now he is 'supposed' to sleep for 12 hours a night and wake up bang on 7am - hoho!

I just read the 'birth to five' book my HV gave us, just the sleep bit. Apparently at seven months they don't need food during the night and some go 12 hours without a feed. I know DD doesn't need but try telling her that...
momormum - I found that DD actually slept better when we were at a B&B/at parents' last week. Even when she did cry, I made some comment in the morning and no one heard her apart from me. I think mums have supersonic hearing that's only tuned into their child.

My poor baby is poorly, we were up last night until gone half one. she wouldn't feed or be cuddled, if I laid her down she 'paddied' and kicked her legs up and down almost bouncing across the bed. Spent hours pacing up and down and seriously thought of heading to A&E, even tho no temp or rash.
Finally after 30 mins of proper wailing she settled on my boob and fell asleep.
When she woke up she had a temp and has spent most of the day snoozing and winging.
Another night with no sleep beckons

Ah no! debs - crossing all fingers and toes for you get better soon little one!

Artifarti, Fululina and MomOrMum - My DD only naps for 40/50 minutes at a time too. Very rarely at home she'll go a tiny bit longer, and if we are eg. driving or pushing the buggy at a good pace she might too but generally that seems to be all she wants/needs. She sleeps - not solidly I hasten to add, lots of wakenings, but is in bed - from 7 to 7 so that adds up to 15 odd hours which is perfectly normal I think. I keep thinking she ought to have at least one longer nap but you can't make em, the little buggers darlings, can you?

Chulita Are you going to try CC this weekend then? I'm ashamed to admit that I've been doing it for the last three nights. It got to the point that DD would only go to sleep if fed her, including naps, and even if she'd fed only an hour before. So I was feeding her stupid number of times a day not for hunger but to get her to sleep, and couldn't leave her with DH at all. That and she was waking 4/5 times a night, sucking for about 2 minutes and going to sleep again, so I knew she wasn't really hungry.

I'm lucky because I swore I wouldn't do it, felt awful, but after one night trying to get her to sleep and having her wail in my arms for 45 minutes it turns out if you leave her in her cot (with patting/ checking etc) she'll go to sleep in, at the outside, 15 minutes. Which to my mind, maybe wrongly, is less cruel than endlessly picking her up and putting her down again, which just winds her up more.

Night 4 now. Fed her about 6.45, Put her to bed awake. Rolls over, goes to sleep ... . Last night she went down at 7, woke and cried twice I think between about 2 and 4 but it wasn't howling, it was grumbling. Fed her at 5 because I was going to explode otherwise. But all in all it's going quite promisingly so far, and she's also going down much easier for morning nap (the others we tend to be out and about anyway) - 2 mins or less of grumbling and she's asleep.

I feel awful letting her cry but tell myself that baby that sleeps better = happier baby. Am I kidding myself?

kiwi I am deffo going to try CC starting tonight I think. DD always goes to sleep well around 6 but after that no night is ever the same. Today I fed her solids at about half 3 cos she's not been taking much on her bedtime feed so I was wondering if maybe I'd been filling her up too close to bedtime She had a good last feed and I've not heard a peep yet...time will tell though. I'm going to make sure DH knows to stop me from feeding unless I'm fit to burst!
About the letting her cry, it's like people have said before, if you were driving you'd have to let her cry but you'd sing or let her know you were still there. I just have to remind myself that if I sleep better I'll have more energy in the day to clean the house so when she starts crawling she won't pick up last month's leftovers in the carpet...it's all for her good really

Ha ha! Just realised I wrote 'definitely...I think' watch this space!!

everyone with 45 minute nappers - i thought this was a baby's sleep cycle and therefore a decent sleep??? it's all ds gets most days - various 45 min naps, though i have been making a concerted effort to get him into the habit of sleeping in his bed.
chulita - i'm always promising myself that i'm going to do this or that tonight differently and then waking up with ds in the bed and he's been there all night....i also often hallucinate or dream, or something, that i actually have 2 distinctly different babies. daytime ds is so accommodating and easy going, it often seems the night time version is a different person entirely. he's still lovely, but it definitely feels like i've got twins at 4 in the morning!

Okay, I am throwing out the sleep books and just hanging with you lot instead. I have been driving myself crazy about the 45 minute naps! Grrrr....

honestly, where's the justice? dh trying to do his 'bit' today, put ds down for his nap in about 10 min, with no crying at all.....for an hour and a half in his cot. so now he''s even more comvinced that i've just had a six month holiday!!! typical.....

did i kill the 6 month old sleep thread??

I think we're all outside cos it's so sunny!

BTW - I totally caved on Friday night and fed DD at half 11 and woke up at half 6 with full boobs and a very quiet little girl. She didn't wake up til gone 7!!! Last night she went to sleep at 6pm and slept til 3, had a ten min feed and slept til 8. I haven't done anything different but I wish I had so I could make sure I do it again today!!

So Friday night was even worse, she woke at 10 and would not sleep for 2 hours then woke at 3 absolutely boiling. Gave her calpol then wandered about with her for an hour until she cooled down then rocked her to sleep. FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MONTHS. I couldn't believe it when she dropped off and i put her in her cot and she stayed asleep.
Dr said she has a viral throat infection so she is on calpol and ibrupofen. Starting to feel better and is currently shouting with daddy.
We haven't even tried to do any sleep 'training' so will probably have a bad week but at least she is better.

haha, dh and i are really not sun worshippers.

congratulations on baby chulita. it sounds like she's just getting into her stride re sleeping - maybe we're all just going to find that they morph into perfect sleepers naturally and we all worried for nothing......

Hey guys. We're off on holiday tomorrow, god knows what sharing a room is going to do to us/her... that and eating out in the evening and trying to get her to sleep in buggy and ... blimey I've never been so stressed about a holiday! Anyway good luck all, back in a week... hopefully having had some sleep at some point...

staines - until 2 weeks ago 45 minutes was all mine would do, since then he does the occassional longer mid day nap (like twice a week). If he only has the short nap at lunch I just make sure he has another one in the afternoon to get him through to evening. He will only ever do the longer nap in his cot, so to be honest I prefer that he can survive on 45 min naps so I can go out and do things rather than be stuck indoors. I stopped worrying about his nap lengths ages ago, I'm too tired to try to get a baby to sleep that doesn't want to sleep in the day as well as the night. On the otherhand he wakes up a lot in the night time - so it is probably best to just ignore me :-).

MomOrMum I'll try to find the time to get onto that thread later - would be lovely to see how everyone else with dec babies are doing, though I hope they won't all be sleeping through like every other baby on my NCT course :-).

kiwipanda - have a great holiday, it's amazing how lack of sleep makes you not want to go away, as you know it will only get even worse! We're not going anywhere until september, when I hope that the sleep will finally be better.

Hello all.

I went back to work today so have spent the whole weekend stressing about that and doing stuff in preparation. Also DS seems to have actually turned into a reasonable sleeper and I didn't want to appear smug!

We're down to one waking at 4am ish, I feed him and then we both go straight back to sleep for a couple of hours. I found that if I didn't feed him then sure, he'd go back to sleep but he'd then be WIDE awake at 5am. It sounds as though baby chulita is on a similar track as well which is fab.

I put it down to the mild CCing that we did a couple of weeks ago and having moved him out of our room. Both felt really harsh at the time but he and I are certainly happier for a reasonable night's sleep.

I'm going to bow out of the thread for the moment and concentrate on work (boo hiss!) but there's every chance I'll be back in the future. It's been lovely and I'll see you all on the forums.

P.S. Staines how was your first day back? Mine was hell. I had an argument with my boss and DS spent the afternoon screaming at my poor dad

fg so sorry you had a rubbish day. can i suggest that things can only get better?? fingers crossed that they do.

sounds like ds has slipped into a similar sleep pattern, waking at 12, 4, then 6 (could do without 6, though will prob come in handy with return to work) and it's certainly an improvement.

ds going into his own room this weekend, waiting on blackout blinds and curtains. then i might sleep with my husband again! mind you, he's so big and sweaty in comparison!

anyway, i go back tomorrow, am working tues through til friday mornings (friday at home, hooray!) and i have the pleasure of public transport into london tomorrow morning. the commuter train...in the heat...oh joy! will let you know how it goes, but i am optimistic. ds wears me out - give me a spreadsheet any day! (i don't mean that, if i had a wife i would stay at home, no worries, but it's bloody hard work looking after a baby full time on your own. full respect to sahms)

ps, one weird thing, i had terrible insomnia last night, constant dreams about ds drowning in an inch of water etc etc. i wonder what that could be about?

Well, don't worry. I haven't been away because my baby is magically sleeping or anything. Simply that I was in the throes of a 2 day hangover . We went out and left DS with a sitter for the first time on Saturday night and I overindulged (ahem). But, surprise surprise...here is his night when the babysitter, a random stranger from sitters.co.uk, had to settle him to sleep: Bottle and bed at 7:00, quick feed at 11:00, awake at 6:30. What??? Of course since then we are back to bottle (dream feed) at 11:00, feed at 3:00, up for the day at 5:30. Not ideal, but I guess not the worst it could be.

Amazed at those back at work! No way could I function. Although there have been moments recently where I have thought that maybe his naps and sleep would be better sorted by someone other than me (hand me a spreadsheet any day, and let a nursery work on the mystery that is his napping pattern!).

Staines - I too have had insomnia and the other night had a dream that I went out for the day and didn't realise for hours that I had left DS at home. I rushed home and he was asleep on his change mat (as if that would ever happen!).

Row - Good to see you on the other thread! No worries about all Dec babies sleeping through. Definitely not. There are certainly some, but lots of us facing prolonged sleep deprivation!