Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

last night was fab. a feed at 2, a cry at 6 for a pooh, awake at 7. un-believable how good i feel. and now ds is at the childminder, so i have the whole morning to bathe and wash my hair ready for my back to work meeting tomorrow. i won't go on about it, honest.

debs - i have no idea if this has any bearing, but last night i put ds in a very lightweight sleeping bag - more of a zip up babygro with mitts - for the first time. i have no idea if that's why he slept. very frustratingly he won't can't tell me. silly baby.

i also try to get ds to have up to 3 hours nap a day - i would prefer in two goes, but will accept four slots if necessary.

chulita - our bedtime routine effectively starts at 5 now that we're weaning - so dinner at 5, bath at 5.30, massage and pyjamas 5.45 til 6, bf and cuddles til 6.30, in bed from then, asleep by 7. sometimes he's asleep before then. i have to say, i couldn't cope without the evening to myself. i regain my sanity! and i certainly wouldn't be ready for bed then either.

btw, i laugh out loud at my assertion "will accept four slots if necessary"!! like i have any say in it!!!

lol staines sometimes when DD has 30 mins instead of an hour asleep I say to DH 'It's ok, I'll let her get up now if she wants' or something equally inane, as if otherwise I could just tell her it's not time yet and she'd roll over 'righto mum, another 30 mins then'. I think we just need to feel like we have some control!!

Another bad night but i am blaming the heat. She didn't settle to sleep until 1 am.
We ditched the slumbersac and she slept in a thin cotton romper. She was tossing and turning for 90 mins until i took the slumbersac off. Even then she was struggling. From 1 she slept til 6.30

Please can I join in! DS is nearly 9m, and I've posted a few times about our various sleep issues! BF and BLW-both going reasonably well.
He has never slept through. I think we have had 2 nights where he has only had one feed. I haven't had more than 4hrs sleep in a row since he was born (obviously, on the nights he slept longer, I was awake waiting for him to wake up...)
I'm reasonably knackered (understatement) but it's kind of copable (is that even a word?) as I'm not back at work yet. BUT planning to return to work (only 2d a week, so nothing major) in September and would REALLY like to be getting some more sleep by then!
I need a plan but I can't think of anything that will work! He CAN self settle (so all the books that say once they can self settle, they'll just sleep right through are lying!), and goes off for his naps now after chatting to himself for 5mins. He sometimes falls asleep during his bedtime feed, but can settle himself when he doesn't. He sometimes wakes up an hour or so after bedtime, and yells for a minute before going back to sleep. Because he doesn't always fall asleep on the boob, I don't think NCSS would work-am I right? When he does wake up properly at night, sometimes he can be settled again for another hour or 2, but some nights he just YELLS AND YELLS. Even if I pick him up and shush him, and rock him and anything else. He will do this for 45mins with me carrying him around trying to soothe him (I think he would have gone longer but I gave in at that point!). If I feed him, he can then be wide awake when I put him in his cot and he'll then chat quite happily to himself before going to sleep, and he has a decent feed, so does this mean he does still really need it??
I have tried a very gentle CC based on the fact that he still screams whether I'm there or not, so have left him for a minute, then 2, then 3 etc, and he does settle eventually but I hate it.
God, sorry this is so long.
Basically, should I just go with it, and feed him when he can't be settle after say 5mins, and hope he grows out of it?! I've been hoping for this for the last 6months!

Hello, can I join? Baby Peb has just turned 6 months and has never ever not-in-your-wildest-dreams-Mummy slept through the night. And of course, all the other NCT babies were sleeping through from before they were born (why is this always the case? is there ever an NCT group where the majority of the babies don't sleep through?).

She spent most of her first 6 months being fed to sleep in a seemingly never-ending feed to sleep - wake up after half an hour hysterical - feed to sleep again cycle from 7 to 11, but a month ago started going to sleep by herself at the civilised time of 7ish. DP and I were gobsmacked to have evenings again and eat dinner together. We actually had to talk. But... as with all things, this too passed and now she's back to absolutely heart-rending cries and sobs and (the new variation) rotating in the cot in distress until she hits her head on the bars. And add to that waking up sometimes at 11, always about 2, and sometimes at 4, and being a bright button up for the day at 6. Or sometimes 5. The little darling.

So... can I join?

Hello mishkamoo and naomilpeb mish, NCSS has some other stuff as well as the pull-off technique. I think I've probably done most of her suggestions but I couldn't possibly tell you whether it's them that worked or just DS growing up a bit. He's definitely formed an attachment to his frog blanket though (a "lovey" in Pantley-speak) which helps him sleep and if it hadn't been for her then I would have just waited for him to choose his own fave teddy when he's a bit bigger.

Naomilpeb, I too have a rotating baby. DS caterpillars up and down his cot all bloody night. I've put on a cot bumper and have this week started anchoring him down with a cotton sheet tucked in over the top of his sleeping bag (a MN hint). I was debating with a friend recently about whether it's acceptable to put pipe lagging on cot bars. I think it'd be perfect for my little headbanger

Staines, I am so pleased for you! Love the way baby staines has left it to the very last minute to start being kind to you! Everything crossed for a good night tonight and a stress-free return to work for you (how are you feeling about it btw? I am terrified...)

well all i can say is pah. and woe. no time for more detail as i need to paint eyes over my eyelids so that i can appear sentient in my return to work mtg in 3 hours

laters alligators

Good luck staines!!

mishkamoo - my son is the same, can self settle when he goes off to sleep, sometime in the night I hear him wake up and fall back off the sleep, so what am I supposed to do when he wakes up and yells and can't possibly be hungry (say 2 hours after a mammoth feed)? I just feed him back off - at least that way it is much quicker than rocking etc for an hour. It may be wrong but seeing as I know he can sleep if he wants to I am not sure any other method will be any more effective.

good luck staines, sorry you didn't get any sleep last night

Ok so , DD was up pretty much all night last night, had four good feeds, a 2.5 hour play session between 1:30am and 4 and finally got up properly at 7:30 but I fed her at 8am, gave her a bowl of cereal and then she didn't want feeding again until I offered at 3pm and she had less than 5 mins...er...hello? unless my maths has gone completely up the creek that is SEVEN hours without wanting any food. So then of course it begs the question - why does she demand to be fed every 2 hours at night????????? Argh! If I offer during the day she's really not interested but then she drinks all night and I'm so tired that I drove to my friend's house on the wrong side of the road (only 3 very quiet roads away but still...)

Feralgirl What's the technique with the comforter/ lovey thing? Do you just give them to them whenever they are ready for sleep or what?

evening all, ds in bed, just sat down with small glass of wine and big bag of toffee crisp clusters and relaaaaaaaaaaaaaaxing! so ds was an angel the night before last, and the very devil last night.

the thing that throws me off is that i know i can put him down in his cot and he can be happy. he's even learning to like it during the day time. so i tend to think if he's making a fuss in the middle of the night like last night, there must be a reason - surely he wouldn't do it just to upset mummy?? but does anyone else know why he needs to kick me in the tummy and smack me in the face whilst he feeds?

fg - re return to work, i was dreading it, but am starting to think it may be easier than being at home 7 days a week. and then i feel guilty. and feel like having a little cry. and then i can't get ds to nap, and feel frustrated. and then have a great night's sleep and feel like i could take over the world. i feel lots of things!! very confusing, this child rearing. and to think i want to have more! my return to work interview went well though, they have lots of stuff for me to do (spreadsheets and liaising with accounts, reaaaaaaally exciting stuff) but they seem to have missed me and can't live without me, so that's nice.

row - thanks for the wishes. i feel very similar to you, if he wants the boob and it's 4am, i am not going to stand in his way. and then those bloody 'rod for your own back' comments reverberate around my brain. however, i am going to trust that this will sort itself out imminently....or, i'll just be on this thread until he's 17.

chulita for you. baby chulita really is a night owl. it's a long shot, but have you taken her to a cranial osteopath? i took ds for colic and that really helped, am thinking of taking him to get over this last hump of night feeding. (is it the last hump? who am i kidding??) god knows what they do, but i have heard they can help with sleeping through. tbh i would pay a white witch if she said she could get me 8 hours sleep straight. of course, i am also my own worst enemy. every time i wake up and can't hear ds i have to put my hand in his face to make sure he's still alive. that obviously helps him have a good night.

what would i do without mumsnet and my sleepless chums? Big Love from the staines massif.
peace out.

ps, where are my manners? welcome mishka and naomi!

Row78 - Please, please tell me you have found the answer to your question? Because I have the exact same one. DS sometimes sleeps through from dream feed to 5 or 6. Sometimes shouts a bit but settles himself back down. But sometimes escalates to a yell only a couple of hours after a feed. I have tried a couple of times to do the rocking, shhhh/patting thing but it has escalated to a full hour or hour and a half fit. Feeding back to sleep is so much easier. But am afraid that the more I do this, the less he will do the settling thing on his own! My new plan is to send DH in with water, but haven't tried this yet.

Hi everyone! Lurking regularly but feel I should start posting. I usually moan about my sleep woes on the Dec 08 Postnatal thread, but should really join this sorry party too.

DS was 6 months on 16th June. He is a terrible daytime sleeper, sometimes an sort of okayish nighttime sleeper. I have read every sleep book known to man. 3 weeks ago we weaned off the dummy and did a bit of pick up/put down sort of training. Since then we have had some good nights, but they seem to be totally random and mixed in with very bad. Plus my expectations have now been raised by the decent nights, so the bad nights make me very very and . Am trying to just enjoy the good but not having much luck overriding my natural angry tendencies!

Kiwi - We have had luck with the lovey concept. I gave it to him whenever it was time for sleep (nights and naps) a couple of months before I wanted to get rid of the dummy. He has a little bunny type thing and also a muslin. I wore the bunny in my bra when I was feeding a few times, to get the scent of me/milk . He seems to sometimes choose to suck on the bunny and/or the muslin to get himself off to sleep.

Naomilpeb - I have a rotating/caterpillar baby too. He still doesn't really roll (never has from back to front) but he does shimmy and rotate and end up with his head jammed against the bars and his feet sticking out. Then if I try to go in to just turn him around he thinks I'm about to pick him up and gets excited...and when he realises I'm not picking him up he goes mental.

Comiserations friends!

LOL Staines. In seriousness, for the first time since having DS I started reading about PND this week after a bad night. And then after a good night I am obscenely happy and couldn't be having more fun. We seem to be on a one night good, one night bad routine. This kind of emotional roller coaster can't be healthy?! Luckily DH has realised the extent of my sleep deprivation and has given me two nights (last night and tonight) off. Me with ear plugs. Him with bottles of EBM. Last night what did DS decide to do? Sleep straight through from the dream feed to 5:45 am of course.

Hi MomOrMum - welcome, have seen you on dec 08 thread - now i'm going to get even more confused as to which thread i'm moaning on!!!

Had a slightly better night. She was a monster for boob but did sleep well inbetween the many wakings.
I think part of my problem is I feed her in bed then leave her to go into a deep sleep before moving her when I come to bed. This usually results in her waking for a quick feed. Am going to try moving her into cot as soon as she has finished feed to see if it helps.

She has had 4 naps today which is so unlike her.

NCSS can be used on both types of feeding.

MomOrMum - I feel exactly the same. and how weird that your reply to my post has appeared before it?!

Debs it definitely helps getting ds into the cot before he goes off properly, it's just that i often can't keep myself awake. and am not looking forward to travelling down the hall to settle him at 4 am, especially when i get back to work! still, will cross that bridge when we come to it, no doubt.

Thanks for all the welcomes and comiserations to everyone as well. Last night Baby Peb eventually went to sleep on the boob at 8.30 after much screaming, thrashing and She was up again at 11, 2 and 4.30. But at least she then slept till DP's alarm went off at 6.45.

staines I know exactly what you mean about them sometimes choosing to settle themselves and sometimes not. It's most frustrating. And I'm with you all on the feeding at night. Yes, I could try and trick her with water/let her cry/shh-pat but I WANT TO SLEEP so I don't. And if I sometimes leave her longer than a couple of minutes to see if she'll go back off, she's wide awake and wants to play after food. Grrr. If I grab her as soon as she squeaks and stick her on she'll be back asleep in fifteen minutes. It's just exhausting that it happens so often. But yes, the old rod and back issue rears its head. My boss once confessed she bf her little one to sleep till the blighter was 4!! Sorry, no one wanted to know that.

momormum well done for the good night's sleep. do you reckon the whole having a bottle thing might have helped?

feralgirl thanks for the protection of rotating baby tips. I've tried lining her cuddly toys up along the sides but she just picks them up and throws them out of her cot in disgust (or does she think she's setting them free?) so I think a cot bumper it is. Might wait till after MIL (lovely but paranoid retired midwife) has been to stay though.

Baby Peb is right now asleep after screaming the house down and eventually falling asleep in my arms. She was absolutely boiling poor poppet. Maybe I can blame the heat for her recent behaviour and not myself .

MomorMum If he starts to suddenly sleep through I'll let you know and we need not worry anymore! The HV was saying I had to stop it but I am clinically sleep deprived and when I try other ways it fails. I'll worry about when he properly on solids, because I don't think the small amount of carrot he currently has will make a bit of difference, no idea why people say starting them on solids helps when it is such a small amount to start with and low calorie veggies.

I also have a caterpillar, revolving baby, but he also rolls over as well. So sometimes he wakes me up because his legs are stuck sticking out of the bars, sometimes his arms, the other day he woke with massive dents in his head from the bars that took all day to disappear and he also wakes me up because he has rolled over (but then wants to play). I'm now placing a towel at the bottom bars to stop the legs getting through, I know this is probably bad from a SIDS point of view but he a motion sensor and I need to reduce pointless wakings! I should get bumpers really....

Kiwi, I did just what Momormum said. Wore the blanket in my bra for a day, slept with it and I have it between me and DS when I feed him before bed (he holds onto it and it stops him clawing my face and sticking his fingers up my nose). I only have it as a sleep cue though, so it doesn't leave his room.

Re. the whole "sometimes they will, sometimes they won't" thing with sleep, I figured with DS that the times that he wouldn't sleep were down to growth spurts or him being too tired in the evening to have fed properly. I always just fed him back to sleep and he seems to be getting better all the time.

He's going through a good patch at the moment but I'm counting on it all going to pot when I go back to work as, obviously, noone else apart from me will possibly be able to make sure that he sleeps and eats properly during the day!

I've got a cunning but ever-so-slightly-faffy plan to turn DD from an owl to a robin.
Step 1. wait for DH to be off work for the weekend.
Step 2. express and feed DD with a bottle as often as possible during the day
Step 3. load DD up with weetabix/toast/cheese
Step 4. cc all night without fail, even when I know that a 5 min feed will get her to sleep again.

I am sick to the back teeth of getting up just to stick her on the boob for 2 mins so she can go back to sleep. She won't feed all day, so she's shown me umpteen times that she can go 8 hours no trouble without food, but then every 2 hours at the mo she wakes up and whinges. I'm threaders with it so this weekend I'm going to try and nip this in the bud.
(I'm all strong and determined now but we'll see how it goes, my resolution has a tendency to crumble at 2am...)

Hi all - have been lurking with intent - hoping that I wouldn't feel the need to post but the last few posts have really chimed with me... Worried about having PND which I know is tiredness, and even managed a small cry yesterday morning when DH was particularly nice to me... DD is 6 months old, and naps well in the day - 4 small sleeps of about 40 minutes every couple of hours. Sometimes she even manages a good long 2 hour nap. In bed asleep by 6.30. BF plus just started BLW. We have had 3 occassions of 8 hours straight sleep, and we were in a good 12.30/4.30 up at 6.30 routine for ages then 2 glorious weeks of one feed at about midnight. But now she is Little Miss Inconsistent and is all over the place. Last night she woke up at 10.40 and then 2 and then wide awake at 5.30... The night before she woke at 1 and 3 - needing food - although to be fair I do always give her boob in the night. She has never only gone 2 hours without a feed at night and am so keen that she doesn't get into that habit...

She settle well after feeds and self-settles for naps. Arrgggh! In constant dilemma whether to 'do' anything about it or just roll with it as when she went to only one feed a night we hadn't 'done' anything to get to that point. So will she just eventually sort herself out???

Agree with everyone that all the tiny babies of friends sleeping through at 11 weeks is soul-destroying.

BUT - in my NCT group of 7 babies - only 2 are now sleeping through, and one of those only in the last few weeks. This thread has been a life-saver at 5.30am. At least I know I'm not alone! Anyway - ramble ramble.