Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

Oh, sorry Chulita, poor baby Chu's bum! What nappies does she wear? I'm so lucky, Feralbaby's bum must be made of sheet steel coz he's never even had a speck of nappy rash!

Last night DH took DS for me which was a lovely idea. We agreed that he would bring DS in to me for one BF and that other than that DH would give a bottle if necessary. I also said that DS is having teeth grief and to administer calpol if he doesn't settle after 20 mins.

So DH spent over an hour shush-patting a screaming baby from 11pm-12pm and finally remembered to give calpol at 1am; came and fetched me at 3.30am to go to DS to do the feed then went to sleep while I was doing it so I had to do the settling; and gave up and came to get me at 5.45am when DS woke for the third time and DH couldn't be arsed forgot to give a bottle.

We then had a huuuuge barny...

She's in BG's and usually has no trouble, I think it might have been something she ate that she then had a big poo and sat in it for a few hours while she was sleeping. She's not had anything she hasn't had before. She often had nappy rash when she was very tiny but not for a while now, not sure what triggers it but this time it's horrible lots of air time is needed! I've had to put her in 'spozzies for today cos I've been slapping on the bum cream and I don't want to clog the nappies up. Rather oddly after not sleeping yesterday, she slept pretty well at the B&B, only waking up twice...hopefully she's been thrown off her crap routine and we can get a decent one going...now if I could only shift this freaking blocked duct...

We use BGs too (but not at night coz DS soaks through them in seconds). I suppose now they're on solids their poo can give them a rash. It certainly has a horrible affect on me; I actually find myself reminiscing fondly about BF baby poo now!

Funny isn't it how being somewhere different can break a habit? DS sleeps brilliantly at my mum and dad's. He's been pretty good the last couple of nights, only woken twice and has started giving us a 4.5 hour stretch starting at midnight. It's fabulous!

Been trying the NCSS for a few days and we are getting better at dropping off to sleep on a night and for naps in an afternoon. Still can't move her off my knee but she is going longer without sucking.
She did however wake nearly every other hour last night so I am shattered today, am hoping it is another tooth.
It will be a long process but worth it when I can oput her to bed and she will sleep more then 5 hours in one stretch

Debs, DS was also a nightmare last night, grizzling on and on and on. I put it down to the full moon...

Chulita - we just had nappy rash this week for first time in months. HV recommended Bepanthen which has worked better than the other stuff I was using. Still hasn't convinced dd to sleep through - in fact, she's just woken up now so must go and have words with her!!!

I worked out the nappy rash was thrush-related in the end...should have sorted it sooner cos she passed it on to my boob AAAARRRGGGHHH!!! It's not been a happy house for the last few days...
DD has settled back into her most annoying 11pm, 2:30am, 6, 2pm, 4pm, 6pm routine that seems to be her fallback. I get fed up cos she has that 6am to 2pm gap in the day where she's not that fussed about feeding and I keep offering every hour or so just to fill her up but she's not interested, and then at night she can't go longer than 3.5 hours...eh? Blatantly she can manage longer, she just gets bored and wants a cuddle I think!

Yes, chulita - I'm sure it's a reassurance thing at night. I only had one interruption from dd last night after she went back down at 11pm but then guess what?!!! Ds1 wet his bed (he has sn but even so, this is quite rare these days) and then ds2 got up wanting a cuddle at 3am (he's 10 and sleeps like a log most of the time). Are my children ganging up on me? Do I have a big sign over my head saying 'No sleep required - runs on batteries' ?

Oh well, fingers crossed for a good night tonight

Marmoset, lol at the batteries idea.

DS has got a new and ultra-irritating habit of just whining and grizzling for no apparent reason until picked up and cuddled, then stops, then continues the minute he is put back down again. He has been doing this for four nights now.

I hate the thought of leaving him to cry but the only thing that stops him is if we leave the room; he drops off within a couple of minutes of us going. Since he sleeps in his cot next to our bed, this has meant that we have been sleeping in the spare room this week but I figure that if all three of us are getting a reasonable kip then it doesn't matter where we are!

Obviously I am going to have to clear all the crap out of DS's room and the time really has come to move my baby out

Ok so feeding for comfort...how do you break it? Last night I was hopeful cos I'd expressed a huge bottle of milk since DD's dropped her 10 am feed and DH said he'd give her the 2am feed. So...she wakes up at midnight and after 20 mins DH goes to give her the bottle, she drinks about 1oz and just plays around so he puts her back in bed, wide awake and clambers back into bed. DD then screams/cries off and on til half 1 when I finally get up and stick her on the boob and she has a good suck on one, half sucks on the other and goes to sleep til about half 5. She had a clean nappy, no nappy rash and she obviously wasn't hungry cos the bottle of ebm didn't interest her all had to be poured down the drain. What do I do?
We're going away on Monday night for our anniversary and my parents will be looking after her for the night but if she won't settle without boob...help!!

Chulita - It's a tricky one, I think. My DS used to wake me up at 1 and 4, regular as clockwork, suckle for about 5 mins and then go back to sleep. I threw a (very tired and emotional) wobbly one night at the 1am feed and sat by his cot for 1.5 hours, refusing to feed him before finally giving in. I hasten to add that this wasn't planned and he wasn't upset by it, just a bit perplexed! The next night he slept through that feed and a few weeks later dropped the 4am one of his own accord. So she will doubtless grow out of it. [probably not the answer you want to hear, right?!]

With regards to your parents looking after her - babies are strange creatures and often behave differently for other people. She may be okay with the EBM or she may get upset but I'm sure they'll be able to soothe her back to sleep one way or the other. Enjoy your night away!

feralgirl when dd1 was sleeping through she would wake everytime we went in our room, never mind got to the bed. We slept downstairs for about 2 months until we got her bedroom decorated.

Chulita DD1 wouldn't take ebm as well but that was when I was with her. If you are not in the house then she won't be able to smell you. Is there anything else she like? Parents could take her out in her pram or in the car to help her settle.
The NCSS suggests letting her feed then as her sucks slow and she is starting to drop off take your nipple out and tuck your finger against her chin until she stops rooting. If she gets annoyed then put her back on boob and try again. I've been doing it about a week and it is starting to work.
She has slept from 9pm to 6am twice this week.

You could also try having a comforter toy, tuck it inbetween you when you breast feed and let her play with it. Gradually she will associate the toy with comfort and you won't have to feed

Ooh yes, seconding Debs's tactics from NCSS. I do both and they seem to have worked. His frog blanket is rank though where he sucks it all night!

He did a 5.5 hour stretch last night. Only woke twice, once coz he was properly hungry and once for a cuddle. Lovely.

He's eaten bugger all solids today though, just played, so I'm not expecting a repeat performance.

Good idea on the toy, she's got a bear blanket that she's only allowed in bed and she looks for it at naptimes, I might try giving it to her while she feeds. Last night she had a huge bowl of porridge at tea and then a full bottle at half 5 so I knew she wasn't hungry when she woke up screaming at half 8. DH gave her a cuddle but she wasn't happy til I took over and as soon as I was holding her she was quiet rather suspicious. I put her in bed and did controlled crying, I only went back in twice which was a relief! She then slept til midnight, I fed her and she slept til half 6. I know CC isn't popular but if she's only crying cos she wants me to cuddle her it's going to be a long night if I keep picking her up! We'll see how it goes tonight...

debs and feral - I'll be trying the toy too, although we have had slightly better nights this week. [crossing fingers and toes]

chulita - if it works, it works!

Agree with artifarti - enjoy your night away. Granny only has to manage one night so even if it's disturbed, they'll survive and your night away will set you up for weeks

Oh horray, I love this club so much. I don't regard my 7 month old baby as particularly bad: if he's not teething or got a cold he wakes twice to be fed and a pooey nappy change. But obviously, the issues pop up every couple of weeks for about 10 days at a time.
However, I am still knackered and have only been getting max five hours a night for the best part of a year (much less at the start, obviously)
One HUGE gripe is my husband who sets his chuffing alarm for 6.30am, wakes the baby, then doesn't go to work for another TWO hours. Every little 30 minutes matters when you're scraping together a patchwork "night's sleep". I've lost count of my angry gnashing mornings when I could just commit violent acts due to unnecessarily early waking.He tells me to go back to sleep, but I'm not such an "alert" sleeper I cannot just drop off, esp with baby moaning through the walls.
My mum says baby should sleep through and 'what the hell am I doing feeding him at all in the night', but I don't see many offers from relatives to come and listen to him cry himself back to sleep for the only three hours left of the night.
Nights just seem like an assault course sometimes and at the other end there's yet another 16 hour day of babycare ahead.

Grrrrr

Thanks.

xxx

Heehee cuppasoup, you're in the right place!! Why don't you set your alarm to go off while you're feeding your LO and let your DH try and find it
I think everyone's mum says baby should sleep through, but some do, some don't and none of ours on this thread do so it's obviously quite normal!

So relieved to find this thread today - my first visit to mumsnet. My 9 month old is still waking at least once in the night (after regular 10.30/11pm feed), and often twice. Will only settle with BF and won't take a bottle (even tho he will drink water from a beaker!). I'm knackered! Health visitor's advice was for husband to give baby water - it hasn't worked. I'll be trying the comfort toy and 'finger on chin' thing tonight. Fingers crossed. Thanks for the advice.

Hello Cuppasoup and wearymum. And everyone else too. How have your weekends been?

Hurrah! DS only woke twice last night; he went from 7.30 until 1.00 without a peep, refused a feed, then I think I woke him at 4.00 because my left boob was about to explode. I dunno how long he'd have gone if I hadn't been wriggling about so much. He then went straight back to sleep until 6.30.

I moved him into his own room today so my wriggling can't wake him up any more. I'll just have to take the breast pump to bed with me tonight(DH'll love that, I'm sure).

[tired wave]

I've just started gently sleep training my 18 month old BF'ed DS who was/is waking three or four times a night. Have been using this as a guide ( www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp )

DH and I are desperate. I'm half sorry/ half relieved to find so many others in a similar boat. I work FT and I'm a grumpy zombie with a filthy house and a to do list as long as my arm because I'm just TOO TIRED to do anything else.

Last night things were already a bit better having got to the cuddle to sleep but no BF part. We'll see.

I havent had a full night sleep in 18 months. I am knackard! Not only does he often wake in the night he is up between 4 and 5am. I have tried everything, i thought he may grow out of this but now not so sure. I never have the energy to give him 100% and i am always playing catch up with the housework. Always wanted 2 children but dont think i could cope now! After reading this i know i am not alone. X

CCFC can you get anyone to help during the day so you can have a catchup nap?
Babies often wake in the night up until 2 so you are nearly there. When my ds was waking like that I started going to sleep when he did at about 8.30, I didn't see dp much in the evenings but at least I was rested.

We are getting better with the falling asleep on a night and last night she slept from 9.30 till 7.30
(ducking for cover from all the missiles being sent my way)
Probably won't be the same tonight as we don't get 2 nights the same.
We are getting better naps during the day as well and I think that is helping her sleep on the night.

I am taking this as a very slow journey. At 4 months she would not go to sleep until midnight. It has taken me 5 months to bring bedtime forward to 8.30.
And she takes at least 2 settlings before she is properly asleep

Sending champagne and flowers to debs - congrats on a full night's sleep!

We seem to be in a new routine of dd getting up at 3am and then 6am, so that is definitely getting better. I am weaning her off bf and onto formula just now and she is having 3 little meals each day now so maybe that's helping but I would like to keep the early am and bedtime bfs going.

Not sure if 'welcome'or 'commiserations' is the right word for cuppa, weary, ccfc and babbity but nice to see you anyway! Hope you had restful weekends!

Babbity, I've just read that link, it's lovely! Sounds a lot like the NCSS which is what we've been doing with 6mo DS. I'll be looking at it again in six months when I need some more inspiration for what to do with a 1yo who still doesn't sleep!

Debs, I am tres tres but well done you and baby debs Did she do it again last night? Are you ready to graduate off into the land of the living? (rather than the twilight world of the sleep deprived zombie)

ccfc, I'm so sorry you're having such a rough time. I'm sure that he will get there eventually. I can't offer advice as you've been doing this for a year longer than me but am sending all the tea and sympathy I can muster.

feralbaby is (touch wood) doing OK. He went from 7.30 until 2.00 last night but then took an hour to settle after I fed him. He's been a bit weird - shouty and fidgeting - about BFing because he's on bottles during the day now as I'm back to work in a fortnight (boo hiss) and I think it's confused him a tad. He didn't really need to be fed at 2am but I did it anyway as I wanted him to have a nice chilled out BF. He woke again at 5ish too and I fed him again for the same reason. Seems to have done the trick coz he BF fine this morning and this evening. Might try a bit harder to settle him without feeding tonight.