Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

Hi, I just want to say a big thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread and especially to arthymum for starting it. Also to artifarti for directing me here from another thread. I haven't posted here before now, but have been following your ups and downs for a couple of weeks and trying some of your ideas. Below is what worked for us. My LO is 7.5 months and is on BF & BLW. She has not been a terrible sleeper, but not a good one either, and I was sick of the 12 and 4 feeds that never seemed to shift. Could I dare to hope that with the support of MNers she would sleep through?

After a lot of trying/broken resolutions etc we have had some success this week with 4 nights without any feeds at all (but a lot of shh-pat) and then she slept through for 2 nights with only one very brief shh-pat. Yee, last night she did not wanke at all! I'm not saying 'problem solved', but it is great to have the confidence to know that she CAN do it. Here's what we did:

• Decided to tackle one waking (12) first, then moved onto the 4am one afterwards.
• Waited until we were on holiday over Easter so DP could do all of the shh-pat, and LO had no expectation of food. (Great for me to catch up on sleep too - the best night was when I slept on the sofa: fantastic to leave all 'listening' responsibilities with DP!)
• Tried to disassociate feeding from sleeping during the day. Got quite strict with Eat-Activity-Sleep. I think this has been very important for us, and wasn't that easy.
• Very regular bedtime routine every day at the same time (30 mins playing nappy-free in the bedroom, feed, book & into bed awakeish with musical mobile).
• In the early days of shh-pat we did feed her if the crying was serious, but pulled her off before end of feed so she mainly got the comfort and not a very full tummy. (This tip is from the NCSS).

Doing this the 12 feed dropped pretty quickly and then we probably had about a week of backward steps before we got the 4am one to go. Where we are now:

• Still doing 10pm dreamfeed, and will keep doing it until am more confident the 12 and 4 feeds have really gone.
• She is still sleeping in our room, but in her own cot. (Previously a lot of co-sleeping just to get through the night, which meant DP was mostly on the sofa as he could never sleep well with her in with us: not sustainable!)
• No teeth yet, so trouble ahead maybe. But hopefully now I can comfort her without feeding her (not sure how!).

Just sharing this hoping it is useful to someone out there, and also I will need to join this thread big time if it all unravels when "The Teeth" get serious. Thanks again for all the advice and for sharing your experiences - it has all really helped me get my strategy together!

And of course I meant wake, not wanke!
Oh dear

Whinegums - that would be funny! Don't think I know anyone in your neck of the woods though (unless you are a friend of mine that has scarpered across the border without letting me know.) It's funny how you find out that people in RL are on Mumsnet - it's happened a couple of times that I've guessed someone or them me. That's why I avoid all the shouty/bumsex threads!

Steaknife - welcome. The sunrises lose their beauty after a while, don't they? Is it the dreaded Teeth? DS was waking up at 5.30 for a while but I found that if I stuffed him with Weetabix/Oatibix at suppertime, he was more likely to sleep longer. Good news about the cat sleeping through though - mine was the first up this morning, scratching at all the bedroom doors.

treehugga - hurray for you and DD and glad we could help with our ramblings. You sound like you and DP have done a great and gentle job - it can be hard to be consistent when you're knackered in the middle of the night. Long may it continue! And ROFL at wake/wanke - that was quite a typo...

Pretty good here although up with the Teeth for an hour and then, after pain relief had been administered, trying to convince DS that 2.45am isn't a great time to practice crawling. Left him to it in the end and five minutes later was asleep - think he was just showing off!

Arti - moggy does do a bit of early morning scratching too, mostly in the litter tray , sounds like she is digging to Australia.

Yes we have teeth pushing through. What is most frustrating is that she will be asleep on me or in my arms and then wake going into her cot and never get settled back again. Taking her into our bed doesn't work as she just wants to hit play with her dad.

This week I am focusing on naps - I figure with night sleep it is either good, bad or inbetween and nothing I do at 3 am seems to matter. So this week it is back to napping in cot. I say back to, DD never really has. But already today we have had a nap of 20 mins and a lunchtime of two 20 mins. Doesn't sound like much but it is a big achievement for me.

Hello All

Hope there were some decent nights.

Maria - are you still out there? Was wondering how your dummy situation was? Sounded pretty grim so hope you are okay.

Awful night round ours, to bed at 8.30, woke at 12.50 and wouldn't settle till 3.30, then woke at 6.45.

We saw the Dr yesterday who recommended feeding before bed, DH wants to use one of those powders you add to milk but seems to have forgotten that DD won't take a bottle.

So I am sat here shovelling in gently trying to get her to eat weatabix with bm and pear. Hmm lovely. She's not so keen and I am not looking forward to cleaning up afterwards.

Steaknife - I have just finished shovelling in casually offering Oatibix with bm and apricot! DS is refusing to breastfeed today, which is fun for my breasts. Not.

Hope it works and you have a better night.

Hooorah! two good nights! sunday night terrible (woke 3 times, not bad but awake for long time, fed once), Monday night pretty good (slept 7 till 3.30 for feed, then slept till 6.30), Tues night great (soke breifly at 11.30, awake for while but settled self then slept till 6.30 and woke happy as larry). I feel great. Forgotten what its like to have more than 3 hours sleep. I was expecting a bad night as she only had a tiny bit of her bedtime bottle but sh eis full of suprises. I could really get used to it but I am trying my hardest not to get my hopes up. We have been here before, having a few good nights every few weeks it seems. Every time I say to DH (and I am quoting so I am not actually saying it now, so not tempting fate)"isnt she sleeping well at the mo", it all goes pear shaped. But who knows.....

Excellent news nicnic. Fingers crossed for tonight...

Hi can I join the sleep deprived gang??!!
I'm new to MN but have been lurking a while to get tips on bf and getting my daughter to sleep for more than 3 hours at a time!
I have a 5 yr old ss, a 27 month old son and a 10 month daughter.
My daughter still bf and weaning, goes down around 6 ish, wakes up between 9-10pm for a bf and then 2-3am for bf and then through to 5am.
Can handle this ok when she settles straight back down but recently she hasn't been as shes been poorly.
Husband suggested that her non-sleeping through the nite is due to being bf and that she doesn't have a dummy whereas the two boys did have.
I'm holding out that she will sleep through in our own time
Is it possible that I'm not producing as much filling bm now shes 10 months?
She's not taking food with lumps at all as she gags and then flat refuses so still on purees.
Don't want to stop bf but wondering if ff would be more substantial than what I am giving her?
Anyone else had this sort of situation??!!
Thank you in advance for all advice.
If I don't reply straight away, it maybe that my girl wakes up!!

Hi Hammy Sorry about your sleepless nights! I don't think your breast milk will be any different and so if you don't want to stop BF then don't. Babies don't really need any formula once they're about 12 months and you're nearly there. I was beginning to think the same as your DH but my DS is only BF and does sleep through, so it's absolutely possible. And dummies can come with their own problems - read back to Maria2007's posts and you'll see what I mean. Does she eat much solids/BF during the day? How hungry does she seem at the night feeds?

Grumpy baby so must go now!

hi all

I don't post all that often (too exhausted, ha ha!) but this seemed a suitable thread for me to join in on.

My DS is nearly 11 months old and has slept through the night twice, woo hoo .

I suppose it's all my own fault, rod for my own back, blah blah blah as i refuse to let him cry but there you go. He wakes up, sometimes he's hungry so I feed him, sometimes he wants a cuddle so I cuddle him. I'm fed up with MIL and others asking about his sleeping and asking 'I wonder what's wrong with him?' when I say he still wakes at night. He's a BABY, that's what's 'wrong' with him!!! A good night is 2 wakes up, a bad night is 3 or 4 plus a refusal to really settle again after 4am....ah well, this too shall pass, repeat ad infinitum

anyway, just wanted to say 'hi' and good luck for all with another evening approaching!!

Hi all!
Well that was a weekend with little sleep...AGAIN!!
Artifarti - She's eating 3 times a day (jar of dinner and pudding at lunch and dinner as well as breakfast) and 2 milk feeds in between as well as bf morning and through the night.
I've found the last two nights really hard going as now she's settling badly and then when she wakes shes not self settling.
Last night it took me 3 hours to get her back off and then she woke again at 345am!
An hour and a half I cuddled her/fed her back to sleep but as soon as she went in the cot she started screaming. After several attempts at this - out of desperation - I had to leave her to scream/cry for about 10 mins, while I sobbed outside her bedroom.
When I went back in, instead of picking her up I tried shush-patting her and after about half hour she dropped off, only to wake 5 mins later so had to repeat the shush-pat. She did go off but then woke at 345 and my husband went in and cuddled her back to sleep, as he said he's not farting around shush-patting at that time of the morning.
So feel its down to me to really take this sleep issue and sort it out as he has less patience then me when tired.
CC seems like not an option as she screams so badly...any one please suggest urgently some techniques that I can try tonight?
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the help x

Oh, poor you Hammy, that sounds awful. How do you feel about co-sleeping?

You could put her down as usual, but when she wakes in the night you could take her into bed with you to bf and then both nod off. Leave the sleep techniques until you're a bit more rested yourself?

Hi Madamestripes
We tried the co-sleeping when she was ill for one night and then tried again the following night when she was better but not settling and she hated it!
Think I'm gonna take a big book into her room and sit it out tonight...

Hammy that does sound bad. Poor you. You're right, it doesn't sound like CC is right for her or you right now. We have only ever done shush-pat here so don't know what else to suggest really. I think if cuddling works for your DH then that's fine too. Whatever gets you all through the night at the moment. How long has it been since she was ill? She's not teething is she?

Sorry can't be more help but come back for tea, cake and sympathy whenever you need to.

[shuffles to front]

Morning everyone, small announcement here: DD slept from 7.30 til 10 to 6 this morning. Well, she had a couple of half-hearted squawks, but these only lasted a few seconds and she settled herself back to sleep. However, I'm still waking every 2-3 hours!

I know she's not likely to do it again tonight, but she has been getting much better in the last month or so (i.e. waking only once in the night as opposed to 5-10 times just a few weeks ago).

She's done this all by herself, so I don't have any tips- just a few observations:

Her sleep improved at the same time as she learned to crawl and went into the cot in her own room. She had the room to roll onto her front which seems to be her preferred sleeping position.

She still has the dummy, but can replug it herself. I think this is probably the most important development/skill/whatever....

Looking back, I think my mistake was listening to those baby guru books which suggest that a 3 or 4 month old can have a dream feed at 11 and then should sleep through til 7 (ha!) I remember almost every night I would shush her while she thrashed her head from side to side and was generally unsettled for hours. I should have just fed her so we could both go back to sleep. Eventually, that's what I started doing but I could have made it easier on both of us if I'd never bought into that guff (I still get worked up thinking about it. )

Anyway, DD has just woken up, so I'll be off now (but am sure I'll be back tomorrow to say it was a one off). Good luck everyone...

MadameStripes - hurray for you! Hopefully it will continue. Your observations are interesting - DS's sleep also improved when he could sleep on his side/front and then got even better when he started crawling (also at the same time that he started stuffing his face with food).

The dreamfeed was always a disaster for us - he just seemed to see it as an 'extra' and then still wake up at 1am and 4am.

Things still good here although The Teeth are back with a vengeance and so waking up time veerryy early. Still, can't complain.

Yay MadameStripes - what fantastic news...gives hope to us all!

Artifarti - hope the teeting passes quickly so you can once again sleep through sunrise!

In the Hammy household, not sleeping is still an issue
On Monday night, she went down fine then woke up about half 9, so I fed her, put her back in her cot awake and shush-patted her for 5 mins and then just sat next to the cot until she dropped off. She slept through till 515am! Which was absolutely fantastic!
But then last night she wouldn't settle after bedtime feed, after a lot of SP she did go and then woke up at 830, went down 45 mins later then again at 11.30 and wouldn't settle for me, my DH, through SP or husband cuddling, and eventually crashing out on her floor in a vain attempt for her to sleep. At 4am I took her into my bed as we were exhausted so truly ballsed it up
Think she's cutting another tooth but it seems that we're always blaming her nightly drama down to teething. I feel shes just suffering with them, however I still want to implement some sort of sleep routine but how can I if shes constantly teething?
Again my DH blamed it on bF and made me feel even more crap.
I even had to come out of her room at one point for a few minutes as I felt I was just going to 'lose it' not harm her in anyway but just feel like screaming out of sheer frustration. Starting to feel like I have no control, crap mum, crap wife as I'm so bloody tired any personal time for me and Dh has taken a backseat and trying to maintain a professional work head on as I'm well aware that our company could make more redundancies and me being the main bread winner losing my job would in effect lose us everything.
My DH feels the pressure as he has less patience then me, starts huffing and puffing when the kids aren't 'behaving', his dad died 10 weeks ago, so he's dealing with his grief as well as other things so daren't put any more pressure on him, particularly when he says things like 'Can't handle this much more'.
Have told him if its too much, then leave as I don't want him with me out of obligation or duty. However thats not what he wants, he just wants the kids to be good, everything to go along nicely and the little money tree at the bottom of the garden to be continously fruitful.
Sorry ladies...I've kinda digressed...and breathe.....
So congrats to those who are having 4 hour stretches of sleep at a time and to those who aren't, I really do feel your pain!
Here's wishing to settled and sleepy babies!

Oh Hammy it sounds like you have so much to cope with at the moment. But you are not a crap mum or wife - if you were you wouldn't be up half the night trying to get DD to sleep or supporting DH with his grief. And you wouldn't be on Mumsnet trying to find a solution to it all. We all feel like we're going to lose it sometimes, especially when tired - many's the time I've been face down on the bedroom floor, crying and muttering 'FFS, just sleep will you!' It's not because you're crap, it's because you're human.

DP and I have questioned ourselves over our always thinking it's teething with DS - but I really think it is. It goes on for ages without any blardy teeth showing up but they're moving about in there. I think if you have a baby that's a good sleeper anyway, then teeth don't always bother them. But if you have a baby that's still mastering sleeping skills, then teething is always going to throw a spanner in the works. Do you use any medication? We find that a dose of Calpol/Nurofen then a bf to calm him down usually does the trick.

And don't think you've ballsed it up by taking her into your bed. I think at the moment you all need to do whatever it takes to get you through the night in one piece. Breast-feeding, co-sleeping, pain relief, whatever. Give yourselves a week or two to try and get as much sleep as you can and maybe forget about the sleep routine.

How is the weaning going - you said she wouldn't take lumps? Will she take any finger foods? Maybe she'll play around a bit and then start to take lumpier bits for herself. Or gradually make her favourite food lumpier - with DS it was porridge, he was so desperate to eat it, he didn't care that I was making it lumpier and lumpier by the day! I give him a bowl of 1/2 an Oatibix with milk and fruit for pudding at suppertime. He loves it and I'm sure it helps him to sleep (although a lot of people on MN will disagree with me, I'm sure).

Anyway, I'm wittering on now. Hope you have a better night tonight. Try and make some time for yourself (hard I know with three kids). But even 20 minutes in the bath with a magazine is something. And repeat after me: "I am a great mum. I am a great mum. etc etc."

Thanks Artifarti - uve helped me in my wobbly moment and given me the reassurance I so needed to hear.
I guess I am a bit of a control freak and when I can't fathom what on earth to do next when shes screaming her head off at 3am it makes me feel so pants.
I guess what stresses me even more is when I know DH is going to start huffing and puffing when she wakes up with comments like: 'here we go again'
Don't get me wrong, he is supportive and does help with trying to settle her, but comments and unhelpful suggestions just make me want to tell him to bugger off where all is happy and un-stressful. I feel myself cringing as I know he's going to start going on when she's grizzling or my ds isn't behaving, I guess I feel responsible and that this so-called family life that he said he wanted/wants, isn't actually what he wants.
I guess I'm stressed enough tbh and starting to feel like I'll just do it on my own, I don't need help when I so obviously do
Moved onto stage 2 jars ( I know, bad mum giving jars but I seriously do not have any time to make meals from scratch) which is hit and miss but refusing to go back to purees now, so lets see how this goes! Fingers crossed!
Anyway thanks again for listening to me offload...I am a great mum....I am a great mum....(repeating in head whilst I go off in search of vending machine that will give me strong coffee and a mahoosive chocolate bar

DP and I are both control freaks and it is no exaggeration when I say that we were terrified of DS for about the first four months! And he was a fairly easy baby! My DP is great but also used to get huffy and puffy too, worried about how he'd function at work with the lack of sleep (he's freelance so would become convinced that no-one would ever employ him again if he did a bad job). Like you, I was on broken egg shells at the slightest sound from DS and felt totally responsible, until finally one day I burst into tears and said something like "Do you wish we'd never had him?" DP was mortified and sooo upset that I thought that. I'm sure your DH adores you and DD but sounds like he is stressed out too. These babies are bloody hard at times. Do you and DH ever get any time together - could you?

Hope you found your coffee and choc - someone's just woken from nap so must be off for now...

Hi there artifarti and all sleepless mums - I've not posted for a while but it's great to hear that there's been some success stories in amongst the tough times... But could I ask you all for some advice? My little one has started crawling and although he does go down awake now (I thought that was supposed to be the answer to everything?!!!) is basically grooving around all over the place in his cot - on his front, side, trying to clamber out - he even fell asleep clutching the bars last night! He's comfy on his side but when on his front he just pushes up and yells. At the moment I sit near the door until he falls asleep, and flip him over when I need to. But it's hard work when he doesn't settle (last night I was in there for 40 mins or so)! I think he's waking himself up by falling asleep wedged against the bars then bashing himself when he moves... any advice? is this a phase? will it ever end? will he sleep through again? (he's done it twice!)

hi everyone,

I joined this thread when it initally started, but been having a few peeks since then. Just to say congrats to anyone whose LO or older ones (!) who have started sleeping through the night. I've decided to take the advice of a few of the ladies who posted here first and resigned myself to the fact that DD2 is a bad sleeper as no matter what I've tried (water instead of milk etc) just hasn't worked and have come to accept that waking up 2-3 times is the norm and anytime she does sleep better is a bonus...

....

UNDERaveragemum - eek, why the demotion?!

Sounds like a phase. When DS first learned to roll onto his tummy, he couldn't get back again and he'd wail and we'd have to go and reposition him. I think it lasted about a week. He also had a habit of falling asleep with an arm or leg stuck through the bars! Still does this sometimes but not so bad. I think they say that all you can do is give them loads of opportunity to practice crawling during the day and the novelty will wear off! I think some people also tuck the end of their sleeping bag into the cot so they can't wriggle but I think that would drive my DS insane! Wait until they all start standing/walking...

Amani Sorry things haven't got better but you do sound as if you are coping better. You are indeed superwoman. It will happen...