urgent cc advice need - just put dd in bedroom to cry it out...

[mamachat]

have been trying to put dd in cot for past 2hours as need to tidy up etc befotre bed, so have now decided to let her cry it out.

how often should i check on her and what should i say or do when i enter the room

Message withdrawn

"Please don't use controlled crying on her"

"please go to her"

"How the op chooses to raise her child is entirely up to her."

A contradiction or two there?

"this thread now seems lost to (valid) debate..."

I think poor old mamachat is prob dealing with yet another broken night in her own way and is unlikely to come back to this thread in a hurry. I hope we all made her feel better but I have a horrid feeling we did the opposite.

Sorry mamachat if that's the case

Hi Sorry i dissapeared lat night.

When i went into check on dd again she had pooed for the second time so when I took her out to change her bum, she was quiet and looked sleepy. When I put her back in the cot she didn't want me to leave so I put her down and sat on the floor next to the cot and stroked her leg...

She started falling asleep, when she looked like she was sleeping I tried to sneak away and she started crying.

Then when I tried to comfrt her again by stroking her she was not having it and was crying.

Then I thought ok I will hold her but not bf. So tried that but she started pulling her bottom lip and sobbing.

So in the end I gave in and let her sleep in my bed with access to my breast when ever she faniced...

I think I will just forget about having a life or a clean house and go to bed at 7.30 every night so dd can get a good sleep. And hey who cares if my house becomes full of mice because I never clean or put my rubbish out. Atleast I will never let dd cry - ever....

gagarin - thanks alot for your support, and to everyone else who did not try to make me feel like evil just for letting dd cry.

Day and night I do what ever it takes to keep dd happy, I do not neglect her and leave her to cry alone... Maybe if I did let her cry a little in the past I might not be in this situation now. I am not one of those tough love mothers who thinks children should behave like angels at all times.

But I can not let dd take every last bit of energy I have. Am would quite happily spend my whole night helping dd learn to sleep alone, like I tried to do last night when I sat in her room stroking her leg.

I am not happy to spend all night with my breast in her mouth. Especally from 7 onwards. I do try other methods, I have read No cry sleep solution and tried a few bits from there, but my dd does cry no matter what I do becase she wants the breast and that is the only thing that will soothe her when I am there...

Also she still wants to bf through out the day. I do not have a problem with anyone who is an extended feeder, but I do not want to be. I wanted to bf for 6-12months max. But I continue to bf as dd as obviously attached to it...

I really feel that mn should think about what they are posting when answering someones post that needs advice and support not telling them they are doing the wrong thing.

Also dd has woke up in a good mood today and is happily playing, but i feel guily for letting her cry and like a failier because i still had to bf her all night long in the end anyway...

Oh mamachat I do feel for you. My DS is horrendous with the constant night feeding but he will amuse himself during the day. My DD wouldn't be put down at all though. I had a demanding job but I was actually glad of the break from her!

I have been in tears at 3 a.m with my youngest even though I should take comfort from the fact that I know it will pass, and that he will go on to be a fantastic sleeper and a happy, secure and confident child as his sister did. You have no end in sight at the moment and that is so hard...

I don't think anyone is telling you not to leave your DC to cry ever. Also, lots of us are in the same boat sleep-wise and may have misinterpreted the thread title and OP.

Thanks for coming back and giving us a chance to help and support you

mamachat, I am sorry if I havfe made you feel bad by posting what I did. someone asked for the links to stuff about leaving babies to cry and I posted it, should probably have done so on another thread.
but anyway, if you post on a public forum you ARE going to get differing opinions, not just people agreeing with you.

but anyway, I just wanted to add that trying a few bits from NCSS isn't going to work.
you have to do it all, and keep doing it. EP says that it isn't an overnight solution, you do have to work at it.
I think a lot of people read the book and think, hmm I like that bit, but can't be bothered with this stuff and pick and choose what they think will work.
I reckon if you re-read the book, and do exactly as she suggests, even the bits that sound silly or like they won't apply to you. honestly, it really can work.

Hope you have a better night tonight.

I just cannot see things getting better with dd unless I do something, when she was newborn she only woke 1-2 times a night, but I could not put her down and had to sleep or lie down when ever she was sleeping. Now she wakes up mostly 1-2 hours through out the night. Sometimes sleeps for 3-4hours but this has only happened a few times. Also it is not a phase she is going through as has been happening from about 6months that she wakes every 1-2 hours...

I am just so tired and feel in a daze all the time and cannot get anything done, I just feel like crig all the time...

Just wanted to add that this is often the worst thing about sleepless older babies: everyone knows how tough it is with a newborn but by this age, when they're WORSE, you don't get much sympathy. Certainly nobody in RL believes that DS has never slept longer than 3 hours, they think I'm exaggerating

thisisyesterday, thanks for that - I do have a copy of the NCSS and did exactly as you describe, picking and choosing. I will go and dig it out now

when i read NCSS I'm pretty sure it said try the suggestions that seem suitable it didn't say do everything in this book...

mamchat - I really feel for you - my dd1 was very much like this and I had DH to help out as well so I cant imagine what you are going through.

I am not an expert on getting babies to sleep but in the end DH and I made it up as we went along but it worked.

When DD1 was just over a year old we had reached then end of our tether. I got a good bed routine going - tea, bath cuddle and a story. Then we put her in her cot and sat just outside the room where she could see one of us. She would then cry - and every five minutes or so we would go in change nappies etc... and lie her back down with a kiss. We didnt say anything so it was clear that nothing exciting was going to happen.

It took about three days to work. The first night was horrible - it took a couple of hours for her to go to sleep fully. The next night was better and so on. We have not had any problems since.

The bed time routine has meant we hardly had any problems with dd2 at all. Unfortunatley they all have to get used to sleeping on their own eventually for everybodies sanity.

HTH

Im not again'st cc, i have used it on both dd's but i wouyld return and settle after 5 mins.

when you return after the first 5 mins, settle her, lay her down and tell her its time to go to sleep, then leeve the room.

Return again after 5 mins (if still crying), lay her down and say its time to go to sleep.

The next time just lay her down and leeve the room.

If my dd was that upset (pulling her hair out ) i would get her out and give her a cuddle, she's upset and needs settling down.

Have you tried standing next to her and rubbing her arm/tummy or back until she falls asleep? If this works you can slowlly reduce the contact each day until you sit next to her cot, then sit near the door and then leeve the room.

i sat on the floor next to her cot for ages last night but she did not drop off, then held her in my arms but niothing would work other then bf...

It's so frustrating isn't it? Knowing that SHE knows you have the thing she wants and can't understand why she can't have it

If you were trying to wean her off a dummy you wouldn't comfort her with two of them strapped to your chest, you'd hide them!

I am seriously considering the method used by someone on here when DS is a bit older - putting plasters over my nips and telling him they've broken

Poor you mamachat. I read this last night but did not have a chance to respond.

IMO, if the parent is happy and relaxed, then the baby will be too. I think that the people who are totally against cc should have stayed off this thread as all they have done is make you more upset and unhappy.

It is really hard to hear your baby cry. I hate it when dd cries, even for a minute. However, she needs to sleep properly, so do you. CC will not harm her. You will be going in constantly to reassure her. She is pulling her hair out as she is angry that the situation has changed from what she is used to but she needs to sleep. People spout on about how cc is so detrimental to a baby. First of all, I disagree and secondly, surely it is detrimental to a baby not to allow them to get a good night's sleep. A baby who is well fed and not ill or need burping does not need to wake every hr to feed.
CC is hard for a parent as n o-one wants to hear their baby cry. However, I know many people who have done it and it has worked very well.

If you want to try again, make sure you have it all planned out and even written down how you are going to do it.
Make sure that dd has a good bedtime routine in place.
Even if you have to go in to reassure her every 2/3 mins to begin with on the first night.
You need to do it properly. Once you start, keep at it as otherwise, she will get mixed messages and it is not fair on her.

We have just ditched dd's dummy which she was using as a prop, just like your dd is using your boob. My dd is 4 mths. we didnt need to do cc, just had to leave her for a few mins, sit with her for a few mins.
It took 3 days. Within a week of giving up the dummy, she started sleeping through the night. I was dreading getting rid of it and she was a bit grumpy but she has soon forgotten about it.

I know that what we did is different, and I had dh to help, but you sound like you are at the end of your tether and you need a quick result.

Your dd will be fine. In fact, she will be happier as you will be much more relaxed and both of you will have had some proper sleep.
Good luck.

Hi Mamachat, just to say keep at it, it will get better.

Once you start it, you have to keep going. I think it is important not to send mixed messages to the baby. So be strong tonight, and try again.

I'm sorry you got a hard time on this thread. The fact it is a public forum is no excuse for people to jump in and tell you you are not doing the right thing for you and your child. You asked for advice, not opinions.

Keep at it, and update us later.

mamachat, have a look at this support thread.
They all seem to be in a similar situation to you
and are trying a slightly softer version of CC (amongst other things).

mamachat I just had another thought of what might work, gradual withdrawal method.

you said that last night you sat by the cot but she didn't go to sleep. was she quiet though? and happy that you were there?

was just thinking that if she'll be ok with you sat in the room and not feeding/holding her then you ought to be able to work with that.
put her to bed, settle her down and then just sit with a book. resettle her if she gets up or cries or whatever.
it might take a while for her to fall asleep (hence you needing a book)
then you just gradually move where you sit further and further away from the cot until you're outside the door.
you can sort of bang around a bit, or murmur to yourself so she knows you are still there even though she can't see you.

again, it would take longer than CC or CIO, but might be nicer for you than having to leave her crying??

Just a thought but I weaned my dd at about this age from milk at night (was giving it to her every time she woke up ). Her understanding was v good at this age. I told her she could have water, but not milk - and yes, she cried (not excessively) but she did understand. I slept with her so I knew she had cuddles and me. Harder I know with bf. But do explain to her what she CAN do - eg 'you can cuddle dolly' as well as no bf. I agree that it will be very hard for her to learn to go to sleep without sucking but she will learn a new way. Maybe try modelling/playing/pretending during day (in fun way) how she will go to sleep ('look, here's dolly. you lie down and cuddle her, then stroke her hair, close your eyes. mummmy will stay for a minute then you go to sleep, night night!' - 'oh look, i came back' .

I don't think crying is unavoidable - and not necessarily a bad thing if she is comforted, but for me, it has to be crying because she is sad I have said no. Not out of fear/uncertainty, if that makes sense. And certainly not as part of any timed technique.

Mamachat, you poor thing, it is ridiculous that you got such a hard time. It's an emotive subject, but you shouldn't be made to feel like shit or that you have to justify your parenting. I completely agree with you that you are helping her by teaching her to sleep. You're obviously completely in tune with your dd and you need to decide what's best for her, and you need your life back a little too, for both your sakes.
DD1 was a poor sleeper and woke frequently through the night, at 6 or 7 months we did cc with her: night 1: 1 1/2 hours crying, night 2: 40minutes crying, night 3: 10 mins crying, night 4; straight through. From that day forward she slept through the night 3 or 4 times a week, and the waking nights were nowhere near as bad as they had been previously. She started sleeping through every night when she was 14 months old, when she felt like it. I have to say, I think it would be much easier to do with a younger child, and your dd sounds pretty assertive!
I can tell you about the methods in the millpond book if you like, or if you'd prefer, I can send you my copy, but I will need it back as I'm pg atm and forsee problems in the future; I do not give birth to good sleepers.
If you'd like it, I think you can CAT me, or you could put an email address here.

It's bloody hard, isn't it? And you're doing it on your own too which takes strength of purpose. You haven't got someone saying to you, 'give it another 2 minutes and then go up', as when they're crying 4 minutes it feels like a VERY LONG TIME!

Hope it goes ok tonight.

Hi Mamachat, hope you have had an easier night tonight

FWIW, DS was an appalling sleeper when younger, I tried the NCSS (yes, everything in it) for months and months with no success whatsoever. Then after I was so tired that I fell down the stairs (with DS) I realised that something had to change. I did CC and within three nights DS was sleeping through and has slept well ever since.

NB for those who say "they learn that you won't come if they cry", DS isn't slow to cry out in the night if he needs something! (eg if he's stuck in the corner of the cot) But on the occasions that this happens, he goes happily straight back to sleep... by himself. He is also the world's happiest and most affectionate little boy -- much happier since he started sleeping properly (me too!).

CC is not for everyone, it's true. I can't guarantee it will work with every child, and if you're not sure about it there are other methods you can try (I think someone else has mentioned gradual withdrawal). But if you do choose to do CC then do it with preparation, make sure she has a good routine and strong sleep cues, this will make it easier for her to catch on.

Good luck, whatever you choose to do

Mamachat, I hope you have a better night tonight, I really feel for you. Good luck.

Thanks for the support everyone. dd is asleep in my arms and has been for nearly an hour, i cannot put her down again tonight as she jumps up when iput her in the cot...

I would be happy to do the withdrawal method but she will only settle with the breast. went to see HV today who recommended a book which i will read and try, but i do agree i do need to be prepared before trying anything. and feel strong enough to carry it out...

mamachat-she will get there eventually.i hope for your sake its sooner rather than later!
when my ds2 was having trouble sleeping we were encouraged to keep a sleep log so that we could see his progress and keep diary of sleping patterns,it really did help.
it is so stressful when your child doesnt sleep,you feel you cant function.fingers crossed for you.