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Sleep

Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler. Need more advice on your childs development? Sign up to our Ages and Stages newsletter here.

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Original poster

Creating new sleep associations

65 replies

Pinkjenny · 10/06/2008 12:02

I have posted this so many times, but am now trying to look upon sleep as something that I need to ensure dd has to keep her happy and healthy, rather than some kind of torture I am inflicting on her.

She has always been a dodgy sleeper, and co-sleeps every night. We used to be able to get her to sleep in the evening, and then she would come in with us later on. But a combination of summer evenings, BBQs and frivolity (!) has resulted in a situation where she comes to bed with me at about 8.15pm. I lie on our bed with her, whilst she throws herself about for half an hour, and then finally drops off. I would be OK with this (although it is far from ideal), but she has tp be up for nursery and to go to my mum's 4 days a week, and is shattered and grumpy.

I tried to get her to sleep in her cot last night, but she got so upset I gave in. Like I always do. I cannot leave her to cry, even at intervals, there is no point pretending I can.

Is there anything else I can do? Dh and I can't have our tea in peace as she grabs food off our plates! She's not hungry or in pain, she just wants to be with us.

Can anyone help?

OP posts:

lazarou · 10/06/2008 12:06

Yeah, my bedtime routine has gone out the window too. ds1 now sleeps with me. I have to say though that it really doesn't bother me, except he is fairly grumpy in the mornings now. Ds2 does the same, and they both end up eating with us even though they have their tea fairly early. I think you will find a few people are having the same problem. Must be the lighter nights and the hot weather.

Sorry, not really any advice there, just reassurance you're not alone.

wonderstuff · 10/06/2008 12:10

I have exactly the same problem. I do find that sometimes she is so tired that I can bath her and put her to bed very early, 4/5 o'clock, she is awake again by 7ish but sometimes it gives us a couple of hours, we had such a good bedtime routine a few months ago...

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 10/06/2008 12:10

Have you pin-pointed what your aim is and how you would prefer to go about it?

It sounds like you want her in her own cot and at an earlier hour.

How old is she?
What methods do you want to use/def not want to use? eg controlled crying.

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 10/06/2008 12:12

Thanks for the support. She has just turned one. My aim is to get her to sleep happily in her own cot (pipe dream, anyone?). I would be happy to let her sleep in our bed, but we have a super KS and to put bed rails all around is not practical.

I definitely can't do controlled crying.

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lazarou · 10/06/2008 12:14

How about letting her fall asleep on the sofa, then putting her in her cot?

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 10/06/2008 12:15

Lazarou - she is such a light sleeper, she'd definitely wake up.

I think I'm probably asking for a solution that doesn't exist.

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ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 10/06/2008 12:18

Does she have daytime naps in her cot? If not, I would probably start there.

Does she have any sleep cues? A feed, cuddles, a story?

If she already has daytime naps in her cot, do you have a consistent nightime routine with dinner, bath, bed?

I can't do controlled crying either

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 10/06/2008 12:20

We'll find a solution!

I think what I'm trying to get at is, does she sleep in her cot at all? Is her cot and bedroom a familiar place to her? Do you have a consistent routine in place?

lazarou · 10/06/2008 12:20

Could you put her cot in your room?

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 10/06/2008 12:20

Thanks ILTMI - its nice to know I'm not the only person that can't. I have read so many success stories about it, but I just can't. Best to admit I can't, rather than keep trying and upsetting her with no end result.

She naps in her cot at nursery and in a travel cot at my mum's (I work 4 days a week). She doesn't have any sleep cues, I was thinking that that might be a good place to start. But she goes beserk as soon as I put her in the cot.

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wonderstuff · 10/06/2008 12:21

You could try putting her in her cot to play during the day and leaving her for short periods, might get her used to the cot and accept that being alone is okay?? Mine wakes up when I put her down but sometimes is happy to turn over and sleep for a bit (we co-sleep at night though because she wakes up so often and always wants milk). I have just got a bedside cot which I hope is going to help us at night.

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 10/06/2008 12:22

Her bedroom USED to be a familiar place to her, but over the past 3-4 weeks she hasn't slept in there at all, which is resulting in the hysteria.

Laz - I suppose we could move her cot into our room, but I really am not sure it would make any difference, she just hates sleep! She's an insomniac baby!!

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Original poster

Pinkjenny · 10/06/2008 12:32

Wonderstuff - that seems like a good idea, trying to get her used to the cot again.

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ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 10/06/2008 12:34

Ok, so she naps in other cots, but not in the one in her own bedroom?

I would start with daytime naps in her cot. It's also a lot easier for you to deal with a bit of sleep training at night when you are tired.

I would start with making sure her bedroom is a safe and known place to her. Have you got a chair in her room which is comfortable for you to sit in?

When your dd starts showing signs of being sleepy (rubbing eyes, slow blinks etc) both go up to her nursery, sit in the chair and have a cuddle. If it helps sing a nice quiet song (rock-a-bye baby, twinkle twinkle) or rock her etc etc.

When she has dropped off put her in her cot. She will probably wake up so stay quietly in the room until she does. When/if she wakes up and looks at you like she needs you, pick her up and repeat the above process.

Keep your cool, she probably won't sleep very much the first few times you do this, but the aim at first is to make her feel safe in her room. So if when she wakes up she see's you, she knows she's safe - even if she's not that happy about being in a cot!

If you keep doing this on a regular basis you should find that each time she falls asleep it will be for a longer period of time. Eventually you will probably be able to put her straight in her cot and just pat her to sleep.

The best thing you can do is be consistent and give it time to work, as it is a big adjustment for your dd.

Once you've cracked daytime naps, tackle the night time. Again be consistent, have a dinner, bath, bed routine (these are great sleep cue's) that you stick to.

I hope this is of some help to you. Remember there are no hard and fast rules, adapt things that work for you and your dd.

Good luck xx

wonderstuff · 10/06/2008 12:38

I would find out what she does before she drifts off at nursery and at your mums, she may have some sort of pattern you can replicate at home? I do feel for you mine goes through periods of really fighting sleep, I never know what to expect from her and am always taken aback when she sleeps well

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 10/06/2008 12:38

ILTMI - and will you come round and pat my back while I do it? I seem to have lost my 'tough love' stance over the past few months, since I went back to work really, the guilt, the guilt...

And I guess I need to do this all night? I can't really start and then take her in with me, can I? I do like the idea of starting with daytime naps. That was a really useful post - thank you. x

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Original poster

Pinkjenny · 10/06/2008 12:40

Wonder - nursery either do CC with her or they put her in the pram and wheel her round the garden. BTW - nursery think I am the softest touch they have ever met and that I am hilarious when I start crying and saying, 'its my fault she won't sleep'!

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wonderstuff · 10/06/2008 12:46

Bless you, I can't bare to let mine cry either Its not your fault, some babies just find it harder than others, how old is she?

only1malteaser · 10/06/2008 12:48

Instead of putting her in your bed can you not get into her cot with her? Will be a bit cramped but just getting her used to her own surroundings with you there to start with.
Then once she is happy with that wean yourself out to sitting on a chair beside her cot but still touching, holding hands. Then go from there to no touching. Making sure you are still there until she is sound.
This is how I did it with ds1, he did cry a bit but once he realised I was still there was ok. He now goes to bed himself after a story. He sometimes even stays there the whole night .
It really doesn't take long once they see there are new rules but you do have to stick to them firmly.
Good luck

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 10/06/2008 12:49

She's 1yo. I feel like its my fault for confusing her whole routine, now the poor thing doesn't know what is going on. But she knows that if she cries for long enough, mummy will give in, which is me being cruel!

I have tried to relax about the sleep ishoo, and keep her up with me, but every solution I have found is just a quick fix, and I don't really feel is addressing the actual problem. The 'solution' then becomes another part of the problem.

I genuinely feel that it is affecting my marriage, as dh and I spend no time together at all, and I really feel she isn't getting enough sleep.

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ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 10/06/2008 12:50

I'll send a few tough love and back pats your way [grin} I remember doing a bit of sleep training with ds and I got so frustrated, but I stuck with it and it worked.

Guilt is a horrible thing. Just see it as helping your dd to help herself. She won't be so tired, she'll learn to get herself to sleep, and you and your dp/dh will have time ALONE together!

LadyJogsAlot · 10/06/2008 12:54

can you not put her to bed and leave the house so you don't hear her crying?
get someone else who is a bit stronger to listen and go in at intervals instead.

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 10/06/2008 12:56

The op doesn't want to do cc.

wonderstuff · 10/06/2008 13:01

I always end up with dd with us until I go to bed because I get so bored in the bedroom trying to persuade her to go to sleep for hours on end. I figure that at some point she will sleep alone, it is just a phase. I was 2 before I slept through and my dad was 18mo, I'm sure that we are just a family of poor sleepers.

Original poster

Pinkjenny · 10/06/2008 13:11

Wonderstuff - that's exactly what I'm doing now. Its just the fact that she is so tired during the day, and also that she gets so hyper when she is downstairs, it must be hard for her to switch off when we go up. She fell asleep on our bed last night on my legs with a bottle of Infacol in one hand, and a bottle of face cream in the other, that she had been banging together.

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