PLEASE HELP 7 mts old not sleeping day or night

[Denisa]

Hi there, I wonder if anyone can help me with my dd's sleeping - or more accurately lack of it. Very sorry it may be too long.She has always been a dredful sleeper, from birth 1.5 hour up every night. This settled at about 4.5 months when she managed to sleep for 4 hours and then 3 hours - seemed wonderful after no sleep at all. After 3 weeks of this dd caught cold and was up every hour and since then went back to her 1.5 hour rutine. During the day, she has max 2 naps lasting 20-45min (even though I would love many more or longer). Last week we tried cc as she does not fall asleep on her own. During the day it took 1.5 hour for her to fall asleep (2 naps in total, 3rd would not fall asleep at all).And she woke up after 30min and would not go back to sleep. It just did not seem worth it after all that ordeal. In the evening, she was crying hysterically for the total of 3 HOURS and still did not go to sleep. I tried to go and calm her down in 10min intervals but as soon as I put her down she would scream even louder ...and the redness and tears (makes me want to cry even now writing about it), eventually we went in and I held her hand and she fell asleep within 3 min. But was awake 2h later. Dummy and holding hand to put to sleep, as we could not go through that crying again. I just don't know how do I do cc every 1-1.5 hour in the night and how long for (1,2, 3h?)We are so, so tired that we have resorted to taking her back in our bad as we cannot go to her bed anymore through being so exhausted. Not that it makes a difference, she still wakes up but then we are next to her - readily with dummy and hand. Funnily enough, when she wakes up, sometimes she still has the dummy, only when she starts rubbing her eyes (while waking up) she pushes it accidentally out, but even when it stays she needs holding hand to go back to sleep. So she can't really always wake up for the dummy as I originally thought. I am so sorry about taking your time to read this looooooooong story, but I am just so despirate. I have become really snappy and even call my husband names as I just depise the whole situation. I say he could do more, but truly he sleeps with her fri and sat and I sleep with her the rest of the week as he needs to have some sleep to be able to function at work. He so tries to help.
If anyone has some advise, please please help. I hoped that cc would sort it, as my friend's baby went to sleep after about 30-45 min of crying, but 3h (and no success)is just a bit too much for me. My HV is of no help at all, when she was 3mts old she said my dd would prob sleep when on solids, not she says it my be teeth, but she already has 2 from 5 months old. I would be GRATEFUL for any advise. Many thanks D :(

Hugs, Denisa (((())))

I just hope somebody else can offer more in the way of advice as I have no idea what to suggest.

Hope you get the help you need here on MN xxx

If you are happy that dd is well, then I really recommend controlled crying.

You don't have to leave them crying for long periods. The trick (or as it worked for me) is to put them in bed, get to the stage where they are not crying. Leave the room. If the crying starts immediately, count 30 seconds then go back in lie her down get her settled again, leave the room immediately and count 60 seconds from when the crying starts.

Each cycle you can lengthen the time that you are out of the room. You should eventually conquer it. It will take time but persevere.

It is sooooooo tiring I know. You will feel much better if you feel you are able to make inroads into the problem.

Go and see a cranial osteopath, as she may have a headache from birth. You GP should be able to refer you.

Ought to have said that when you go in to settle her, once she is in bed DON'T get her out again. I lean into the cot to hug ds and then lie him down again. Don't hang around and chat. This needs to be quite boring for them, comforting but boring.

Thank you so much guys. I am gearing up to the controlled crying again, as last night proved that things can get worse. Did I say every 1.5 hour - more like 45min to 1h up. Not sure whether she's coming down with cold as well, ah.
I will have to go and see my GP as I honestly cannot cope any more. :( Do you think that cranial osteopath would really help?

are you sure she's got enough to eat? my ds used to wake up every hour for feeding. then i swapped to formula and now on solids too. made the whole difference!!! took some time to adjust though.
if you think she's full then maybe try something to cuddle. my ds gets a muslin in his hands. he grabs it and even covers his head with it (maybe wear it under your clothes before you give it to her, to rub off your smell onto it)
then i also think cc! tough but it works!
have you figured out a sign she gives you when she gets tired?? my ds always rubs his eyes (i wait for 2 rubs though to be sure...) and then i put him down. i do the same routine every time.
talk to him when i go to his room quietly. put him down (darkened room), dummy in, muslin in hands, music on, i stroke his head and tell him as soon as he wakes up he can call me and i'll get him - maybe silly but it works for us

try to find a routine for yourself. and when you put her down try to keep yourself busy (eg. load the washing mashine, dishwasher) and tell yourself not to see to her before you haven't finished your thing. - seems longer to you than it actually is!! and mostly you'll discover that she's gone off while you finished whatever you did - happens to me alot!

and listen to her cry! many times they cry themselves to sleep! i know, it can be heartbreaking but listen closely and if she isn't in any pain or hungry leave her for a while. they learn it really quickly!!!!

hth

totally new to this - but you have my deepest sympathy !! my daughter was just the same - please look at this website it really has helped me loads - www.continuum-concept.org/

it's a book writen by Jean Liedloff and its brilliant - gave me a real insight into things i've done in not the best ways and how to put things right .

hope this helps in some way - dawny :)

there's a book by Dr Richard Ferber, Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems, which may give you some ideas/reassurance/strength. you can get it from amazon.

Hi Denisa. I totally sympathise, my DS was up every 1.5 hours every night. I went down the cranial osteopath route last week in desperation and it turns out DS,s skull was slightly pulling to the right (sounds scarier than it is and not so much as to cause any damage has i not had him treated. the osteopath did lots of hands on stuff and cleared tension from his head , neck and abdomen. My DS woke only once that night and once eb=very night since (touch wood!) and instead of feeding him i do CC and he ususlly goes right back over. It really will be the best £35 you'll ever spend. I felt like a new woman after a straight 5 hour sleep!! Good luck and HTH x

My ds was a LOT like this. Shit, isn't it? Do you have a daytime routine? For me, it helped to put him down almost precisely two hours after his morning wake up - this seemed to really suit his system (it's a Gina Ford thing, but don't let that put you off!). We woke him after 45mins then put him down again at 12ish - having a daytime routine really seemed to help me get through the day after the horror of the night. My ds was also very resistant to cc at six months (LOTS of awful crying) but at 8months something just clicked and it worked, suddenly. He whinged and grumbled for 20 mins and went to sleep. Miracle!
I tried cranial osteopathy after lots of people told me how wonderful it was for their babies, but it made no difference to ds, neither did a change of diet or formula v breast - but at 8months he finally slept, and funnily enough it was the same for a friend's little boy who was exactly the same as my ds.

Good lord sounds horrendous. Does the dummy really help - praps if you took it off her she wouldn't miss it after a few days so wouldn't wake up wanting it.

Can you afford to get a maternity nurse in for a few days, they are very good at helping with good routines.

If not just decide on what the routine will be and stick to it. Gina Fords are a bit bossy but generally reasonable routines for different age babies.

Our 10 month old got fed up with crying in the night as she always got ignored after had checked nappy was clean and she was warm. Now she sometimes has a moan and a groan a few times in the night, but we just leave her and she goes back to sleep.

Oh, and my ds also woke up crying with dummy still in mouth - it wasn't the dummy waking him.
Re maternity nurse/nanny - a friend with twins did this and it did work for them in getting a good daytime routine. Their nanny didn't do overnights and cost #500 for a week but sorting out the daytimes really helped with the nights.

Thank you so so much. I had a routine prior to your advise guys but now I am strictly sticking to it. Morning sleep, afternoon sleep and bedtime routine. Last milk at night is normally formula plus 3 baby yougurts - she seems to like it like that and also I think associates bottle with night....She slept 3 hours last night and then again 1.5, it's unbeliavable - but obviously she can sleep if she wants. I have a GP appointment for tomorrow and will give the cranial o a go as well (no harm). To be honest I am willing to try anything. She eats a lot during the day (thank God) and does not really want to eat in the night, just holding both hands and dummy if it fell will help most of the time. She does have cold now (murphy's law) as if she knew I was going to do cc again.
But thanks a lot for all the advise, I take it seriously and always try. It is so hard to believe that cc actually works but as soon as the cold is gone we'll stick to it.
Emz congratulations on your good night sleep, I hope this is the end to your sleepless nights.
Ta for now D

Also have to add. That sometimes she is very very tired and as Susiunder...'s little one rubs her eyes but sometimes even when we try to rock her after wailing in her cot, she will still fight the sleep - this is during the day. I refuse to rock the 9kg to sleep in the night - every 1.5h, luckily as I wrote before this is usually not necessary.

Hie, I must say I am completely dismayed and so so down. Just went to GP, who suggested that the problem is me...Apparently, I am stressed out and depressed and the baby can feel it. He suggested not to breastfeed in the night at all and feed her solids (in the night) instead, as I desperately need to sleep (good observation). I have to say I have never heard of feeding baby solids in the night and cannot see how this will help with my sleep, preparing food. Also he does not know the area very well and cannot recommend cranial o. I explained that I was not stressed before this and that I coped well until recently but the lack of sleep is getting to me. He just suggested I need to find harmony with the baby and nobody could help me with that but myself. My husband was present and could not believe it himself.
Never mind I have ordered Ferber and as soon as the cold is gone will start with cc, but am really worried that I will not cope. My friend puts her baby to the childminder for one day a week to get some rest and my dh encourages me to do the same, but I am afraid they will not like her not being able to sleep.

your GP sounds an arse on every level. excellent you and DH spotted this (no small achievement when you're totally knackered) so you can disregard his advice. yes, brilliant idea, get your child used to being fed MEALS at night so she wakes up expecting a hot dinner at 3am. that'll really sort out the problem.

you WILL cope with CC, if you've reached the point where you really need it. and to me, it sounds like you're there. ferber is good, reassuring, and kindly. get DH onside totally (make him read it too), commit to it (no wobbling) and sooner than you think you will have results: a baby who CAN sleep, and is immeasurably happier on it. take care -- have faith...

can't help with the cranial osteopathy, i'm afraid. someone else might have more ideas.

agree - he's a grade A arse. Don't worry about the childminder - they will have seen this before - they may even have some tricks you haven't even thought of! Solids in night really, really stupid idea.

Agree about the childminder. If you can afford it I would go with it. Both my children started sleeping better once they started nursery for 3 days. With DD I think this is because she has more routine rather than being dragged around after DS all day.

I am glad it's not just me who think it's bonkers. I wonder whether the GP would like to cook a meal at midnight. I will try the childminder, maybe you are absolutely right and she may help. Thanks for the support. I thought I am loosing it.

agreed! sounds like a very silly idea to me to feed solids at nights

maybe try to fill her little tummy with her last meal in the evening. i try to finish off with something pasta/rice - and 1 joghurt of course

maybe she has wind and wakes up? i tried to cut out joghurts for a few days; but didn't make any difference! but maybe your dd can't cope with anything just yet?

keep going and soon you'll figure out how to help your dd! does she have bottle? maybe try dilute formula quite a bit and try that?
i can only give you some ideas, all the little ones are so different!!!!

fingers crossed

God what a stupid doctor.

Were starting cc soon and ferbers book is good.

Theres a website that lists all the registered cranial osteopath in your area. I cant remember the website but post a message and someone will find it for you. We paid 27.00 for 1 hr. I cant say it worked but it was worth a go.
Hope things get better for you. It does sound to me that its lack of sleep that is causing you to feel like this. Believe me I shout at DP all the time due to tiredness and were only awake every 4 hrs.

Thank you so much ladies. Did cc ala Dr Ferber as recommended by many of you on wednesday, as aloha suggested to wait till 8 months. And really, something did click and it works. We bravely ditched the dummy, no rocking, no co-sleeping, her room. Must say followed all the advise at once. It works dd now sleeps after 3 days 12h. I hope it stays! MANY MANY THANKS.
One more question - will the crying before falling asleep get any better with time?? I cannot keep puting washing machine on in the kitchen every day to keep sane, LOL! Please let me know. Thank you so much, it seems like thanks to you my New Year's wish came through.
Happy New year to you all. Denisa