Page 3 | What does crying it out actually mean practically?

sensechec · 19/01/2023 10:57

Blufelt · 18/01/2023 00:50

You need to let your child cry for long enough to realise he’s been abandoned and nobody is coming. As long as he thinks you might respond to his cries with love and attention he’ll keep crying. When he finally gets the message he’s on his own then he’ll go quiet. Romanian orphanages were renowned for being silent, the babies didn’t cry because they knew nobody would come.

The old 'Romanian orphanage' chestnut I see. Ffs it's NOT THE SAME

sensechec · 19/01/2023 10:59

QuertyGirl · 18/01/2023 12:30

Leaving a baby to cry till they're sick is a massive choking risk, surely?

Got to be a huge SIDS risk to this.

Not when OP is probably glued to the monitor watching

sensechec · 19/01/2023 11:01

MissWings · 18/01/2023 16:49

I did CIO when I was a young and informed mum. I regret it, it’s not healthy at all in terms of attachment. I wish I had listened to others on the forums instead of thinking they were a bit wet behind the ears.

What's happened to your relationship with your child since you did CIO? Nothing I'm guessing

sensechec · 19/01/2023 11:03

It’s one of the main memories I have of my early childhood — crying at night, and no one ever coming. It’s come up a lot in therapy.

There's no way you remember being a 6 month old.

I did Ferber with my now 5 year old. He sleeps through the night most nights apart from when he decides to shout for me to rearrange his sleeve, needs the loo, needs his duvet perfecting, had a bad dream. So no, he hasn't learned that no one is coming, he's just learned to fall asleep by himself.

Matleavemummy · 19/01/2023 11:03

what age are you in early childhood? Forgive me but I’m sure a 6 month old won’t be recounting their memories when an adult. 6 years old, sure.

To let a 6 month old cry for minutes at a time, to enable a good night sleep for them and their parents is fine. Would you avoid driving on the motorway incase your baby started crying and you couldn’t pull over? If your child is unable to fall asleep and stay asleep this will do them much more damage in the long run - letting them cry for a bit is fine, for heavens sake.

BestName · 19/01/2023 11:11

LittleMG · 19/01/2023 10:28

I wish people would read the updates, I was with him, taking to him but not picking him up. Thanks to the helpful posts x

Just out of curiosity, as I always wonder this, if you are in there anyway, how are you saving yourself any time? Surely to just settle even if repeatedly is quicker and less stressful than sitting in a room with your child crying until they are sick your OP didn't state much details about age or what you are trying to get your LO to stop doing, frequency times etc.

I personally could never go down the cry it out route despite me desperately wanting my 16m old to just sleep better and in his own bed, so I'm always curious how being there with them crying is better than being with them happy? Long term gain I suppose.

WoolyMammoth55 · 19/01/2023 11:27

Hi OP, not trying to troll at all.

My opinion of CIO is shaped by Philippa Perry's book called: The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read (and Your Children Will Be Glad That You Did) - I got it out the library and found it super-helpful on a lot of parenting stuff.

She quotes an academic study (admittedly I have no other citation except her book, which I returned to the library long ago) which she says proved that there are stress hormones flooding a crying baby - adrenaline, cortisol etc - which measurably lower back to normal levels when they are cuddled and soothed by a carer, BUT which remain high in "self-soothed" babies - even when they've 'given up' crying.

This is compelling evidence that "self-soothing" is a myth. The baby needs a carer to soothe and comfort them in distress - otherwise they will remain very distressed, even if they're not crying any more!

I think it also indicates the potential for long-term damage to babies from CIO. Anyone who has suffered stress or anxiety as an adult knows those hormones are no joke. They can cause inflammation and allergies, as well as raised heart rate. I personally wouldn't CIO for this reason.

Wish you and your baby all the best.

pebbles3004 · 19/01/2023 11:57

WoolyMammoth55 · 19/01/2023 11:27

Hi OP, not trying to troll at all.

My opinion of CIO is shaped by Philippa Perry's book called: The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read (and Your Children Will Be Glad That You Did) - I got it out the library and found it super-helpful on a lot of parenting stuff.

She quotes an academic study (admittedly I have no other citation except her book, which I returned to the library long ago) which she says proved that there are stress hormones flooding a crying baby - adrenaline, cortisol etc - which measurably lower back to normal levels when they are cuddled and soothed by a carer, BUT which remain high in "self-soothed" babies - even when they've 'given up' crying.

This is compelling evidence that "self-soothing" is a myth. The baby needs a carer to soothe and comfort them in distress - otherwise they will remain very distressed, even if they're not crying any more!

I think it also indicates the potential for long-term damage to babies from CIO. Anyone who has suffered stress or anxiety as an adult knows those hormones are no joke. They can cause inflammation and allergies, as well as raised heart rate. I personally wouldn't CIO for this reason.

Wish you and your baby all the best.

What I would like to know from that research, are they using that from babies who were literally left on their own for as long as it took to go to sleep, i.e. baby had no idea whether mum was even in the house anymore?

The vast majority of people on here who have said they did sleep training have said they were outside the room and going back in at regular intervals and not letting baby get hysterical.

I did it. My little boy now goes to bed very happy (he even takes the lead on his routine and tells me he's ready for book and milk) and goes into his cot happily. I can see and hear him on the monitor singing and playing with his soft toys, singing abc's and twinkle twinkle to himself. He sometimes will take his sleeping bag off and throw it out of his cot (he's recently discovered he lives throwing EVERYTHING) so I'll go back in and he'll have a huge grin on his face and very proud to tell me he took it off and "throw far mummy, look!" To me that doesn't sound like he's got cortisol raging through his body...

Puppers · 19/01/2023 12:08

The fact that people who do this have to euphemistically refer to it as "sleep training" says it all really. It's just leaving your baby - who is biologically designed to crave closeness with their caregiver - until they learn that they can't depend on you to fulfill their needs and fall asleep on their own. Just awful and neglectful.

Also not sure how advocates of this method are all so confident that their baby is sleeping completely uninterrupted all night long. That would be very unusual for an infant. What these people actually mean is that their sleep is uninterrupted by crying. The baby will still be waking, they just don't cry because they know you won't come. It doesn't mean they don't still need you.

sensechec · 19/01/2023 12:11

WoolyMammoth55 · 19/01/2023 11:27

Hi OP, not trying to troll at all.

My opinion of CIO is shaped by Philippa Perry's book called: The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read (and Your Children Will Be Glad That You Did) - I got it out the library and found it super-helpful on a lot of parenting stuff.

She quotes an academic study (admittedly I have no other citation except her book, which I returned to the library long ago) which she says proved that there are stress hormones flooding a crying baby - adrenaline, cortisol etc - which measurably lower back to normal levels when they are cuddled and soothed by a carer, BUT which remain high in "self-soothed" babies - even when they've 'given up' crying.

This is compelling evidence that "self-soothing" is a myth. The baby needs a carer to soothe and comfort them in distress - otherwise they will remain very distressed, even if they're not crying any more!

I think it also indicates the potential for long-term damage to babies from CIO. Anyone who has suffered stress or anxiety as an adult knows those hormones are no joke. They can cause inflammation and allergies, as well as raised heart rate. I personally wouldn't CIO for this reason.

Wish you and your baby all the best.

This has since been debunked

SalviaOfficinalis · 19/01/2023 12:17

Puppers · 19/01/2023 12:08

The fact that people who do this have to euphemistically refer to it as "sleep training" says it all really. It's just leaving your baby - who is biologically designed to crave closeness with their caregiver - until they learn that they can't depend on you to fulfill their needs and fall asleep on their own. Just awful and neglectful.

Also not sure how advocates of this method are all so confident that their baby is sleeping completely uninterrupted all night long. That would be very unusual for an infant. What these people actually mean is that their sleep is uninterrupted by crying. The baby will still be waking, they just don't cry because they know you won't come. It doesn't mean they don't still need you.

My DS don’t cry in the night because he rolls over and happily goes back to sleep. He’s not just lying there awake and silently all night. If he’s ill or teething he will wake up and cry, and I know there’s something wrong because it’s not his normal behaviour - so obviously I go and see him.

Everyone “sleep trains” their baby. The difference is that some train their babies to only fall asleep if they are being fed/rocked/stroked etc.

Others train their babies to be able to fall asleep alone.

The first few days are hard, yes. But my DS goes to sleep within seconds of me putting him in his cot (without crying). He must be pretty relaxed to fall asleep so quickly. He’s nearly 2 and has been doing this since 6 he was months.

Superfoodie123 · 19/01/2023 12:18

Do some research. Its not good for your baby. They release cortisol and various other stress hormones when you do CIO. This doesn't stop when they stop crying, they just learn you're not there for them, that they cannot rely on people. Anxiety stems from somewhere for a lot of people. My kid didn't sleep well either. Co sleeping helped massively.

Superfoodie123 · 19/01/2023 12:20

sensechec · 19/01/2023 12:11

This has since been debunked

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Who debunked it?

Emmamoo89 · 19/01/2023 12:27

I only let my son cry it out for 15 mins tops. I definitely wouldn't do it to the point he throws up. Just no

WhatAmIDoingWrong123 · 19/01/2023 12:28

Children in Romanian orphanages were not otherwise well cared for and well loved children. Yours is a very unintelligent comparison and best ignored.

HaggisBurger · 19/01/2023 12:31

pebbles3004 · 18/01/2023 10:00

All. Of. This.

Show quote history

Agreed.

FLOWER1982 · 19/01/2023 12:33

Wow, I can’t believe what I just read. Poor thing. You do realise they can choke on sick? Crying themselves to seep is not soothing in any way. He got so distressed he was sick??!! Wtf.

ShirleyPhallus · 19/01/2023 12:36

I always ask this on CIO threads - do people who oppose it think that those babies have had it never ever cry again about anything?!

sensechec · 19/01/2023 12:43

ShirleyPhallus · 19/01/2023 12:36

I always ask this on CIO threads - do people who oppose it think that those babies have had it never ever cry again about anything?!

I think they do! 'Like Romanian orphans' despite having loving and conscientious parents

sensechec · 19/01/2023 12:44

@Superfoodie123 www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/11/leaving-babies-to-cry-does-no-harm-study-finds

'Mountain out of a molehill'

cheeseontoastplz · 19/01/2023 12:55

I hate these posts. Why have a baby? Baby's cry. They want your love, warmth, comfort. They need it!

Leaving a baby or child in fact to cry, is utterly neglectful in my opinion.

How would you feel if you were utterly besides yourself, to the point you THREW UP, and the one person who is meant to keep you safe is just sat there watching you. Disgusting.

Pick your god damn baby up. Co sleep. Cuddle your baby. Comfort them. They NEED it.

My 19m old doesn't sleep through. I am sleep deprived on the daily. But hearing her cry for me?? Jesus. You all must be made from stone.

Emmamoo89 · 19/01/2023 12:58

cheeseontoastplz · 19/01/2023 12:55

I hate these posts. Why have a baby? Baby's cry. They want your love, warmth, comfort. They need it!

Leaving a baby or child in fact to cry, is utterly neglectful in my opinion.

How would you feel if you were utterly besides yourself, to the point you THREW UP, and the one person who is meant to keep you safe is just sat there watching you. Disgusting.

Pick your god damn baby up. Co sleep. Cuddle your baby. Comfort them. They NEED it.

My 19m old doesn't sleep through. I am sleep deprived on the daily. But hearing her cry for me?? Jesus. You all must be made from stone.

Sometimes people have to tho. A sleep deprived parent is a dangerous one. You need to keep yourself right for baby. Happy mama equals happy baba

Bestcatmum · 19/01/2023 13:00

From what I've read it doesn't mean leaving them to cry for hours.
Let them cry for 10 minutes then cuddle then put back to bed and repeat. You don't leave them to cry until they go to sleep.

Mummyof287 · 19/01/2023 13:01

Blufelt · 18/01/2023 00:50

You need to let your child cry for long enough to realise he’s been abandoned and nobody is coming. As long as he thinks you might respond to his cries with love and attention he’ll keep crying. When he finally gets the message he’s on his own then he’ll go quiet. Romanian orphanages were renowned for being silent, the babies didn’t cry because they knew nobody would come.

I'm really hoping this is a sarcastic post!

Mummyof287 · 19/01/2023 13:08

LittleMG · 17/01/2023 21:44

Hi everyone, yes we’re having to
cry it out. I can’t do it anymore. It’s so awful my little boy doesn’t understand why I won’t do what he wants.
how long will this take? hours days?
how many times a night will I have to sit here like this??
Ive done some research and I’m
in the room with him I can’t just shut the door on him. But no one says practically how long he’ll be able to cry for all night?? HELP XX

The reason you feel like you 'can't do it anymore' is probably because as a mummy you are not programmed to want to leave your baby upset and not comfort them!

Controlled crying with intermittent comfort and reassurance is one thing (although even that should be a last resort IMO) but CIO is emotional neglect....yes you're in the room but sitting there ignoring his cries and offering no comfort actually probably feels WORSE for him.....Imagine you were sitting in a room with the person you love most crying, and they sat ignoring you...wouldn't exactly be making you want to cry less would it.

Please don't let people get in your head and make you feel you have to do something you clearly know in your heart isn't right.