Put your baby to bed awake - how???

[Stefka]

If I do this he cries. I spend all night rocking or feeding him to sleep. He then wakes up after about half an hour crying. I am guessing he gets a fright finding himself in bed alone when he fell asleep on me. I don't know how to break the habit though. I try putting him down sleepy but he cries.

Thanks - I do think I need to worry less about it. My SIL just had a wee one too and she sleeps 10-8 and she is younger then my DS! I realise all babies are different though.

Last night I must have fed him to sleep 8 times before it worked and a couple of those feeds were about an hour long. It was pretty tiring. Hopefully he will grow out of this as I am starting to dread the evenings a bit.

I haven't got a sling yet no - I was meant to go to a sling meet yesterday but the bloody car broke down so I couldn't get there. Was planning to order a sling today once I had played with a few of them. I think I want a storch though so maybe I will just get it.

Ooooooooooh get a sling, a wrap sling - I had a KariMe but a friend has a Moby which is similar - they're fab, saved me a lot of sleep hassle

i've got a couple you tube links for putting on a wrap sling with teeny babies. I'll have to do that from home.

hurry up and get the storch

I also firmly believe that much of this is down to the personality of the baby. My DD was like your DS and needed feeding to sleep, wheras my DS (7 months) will happily go to sleep on his own (sometimes with a little grumble, not crying, which is only prolonged if you don't leave him to it).

Things like setting up routines and cues will help of course, for me accepting co-sleeping with DD saved my sanity. Also, it will get better and they do grow out of it, eventually!

Stefka - can't emphasise this enough...

get a sling!!!

dd can sleep in one beautifully. course I'm still carrying her but it is so much easier and I can get on with stuff.

A few days ago I painted my kitchen with her asleep on my back.

seriously, skirting boards and everything.

I started out with a stretchy wrap sling by moby, progressed to several home made wraps ( nothing more than an unhemmed length of jersey fabric or fleece) and now have a couple of mei tais which are great for carrying the baby on your back.

get one - please!

actually stefka, I have a home made wrap sling I loaned/gave to another mner and she kindly returned it a couple weeks ago. It is sitting in the cupboard doing nothing so if you would like to try one out before you buy, I will happily post it your way.

Hi Stefka,
I think I have written on a couple of your other threads about day sleeps, crying and so on. My DD2 is 17 weeks and a couple of months ago I was the one starting threads about her refusal to be put down. I just wanted to share my experience- it runs somewhat counter to the overall tenor of the advice you have received here but as someone said above, the same route doesn't work for all babies. Neither, importantly, does it work for all mothers, which is a factor that is often overlooked IMO.

I tried the sling/ cuddle or feed to sleep route but after about 12 weeks DD2 refused to sleep in the sling and got distressed at the very sight of it. (I now have 4 slings, accumulated in a rash of enthusiasm, gathering dust in a cupboard!) I also felt encumbered by it when trying to play with DD1 and, to be honest, just wanted her to go to sleep in her cot. At that stage I began putting her in the cot and leaving her to cry for a bit (and I mean proper crying, not just grumbling). Yes it was horrible but the choice was made somewhat easier by the fact that she cried whatever I did (pick up/ put down; swaddle/ no swaddle; feed/ no feed etc). And I discovered that she would only cry for around 10 mins max then find her thumb and fall asleep.

5 weeks later, I have just put DD2 in her cot awake but needing to sleep (she doesn't really do 'sleepy' in the sense of drowsiness but gets more agitated when tired). She cried quite loudly for 5 mins then dropped off. She now has 3 x 1 hour naps in her cot every day and wakes happy. I still don't like to hear her cry but if I go in, stroke her, pick her up etc (which I do if she is taking a while to go) her crying intensifies. I honestly think she needs to be left alone to go to sleep. DD1 was the same (although I forgot that until my mum reminded me last week) and she is now a champion sleeper.

I know leaving to cry isn't a very popular approach on MN but you have to find a way to get through your day that works for you, DH and siblings as well as the wee one. Personally I could not spend upwards of an hour stroking DD2 to sleep three or four times a day (and n times a night), and I don't think it would help her much either.

This isn't 'advice' because I don't know you or your baby so don't know what suits your personalities. And I'm not criticising the majority approach either, just trying to point out that there is more than one way to crack a nut

Good luck!

Hey kiskidee - it would be great to borrow your wrap! I am nervous about just buying one as money is really tight for us right now. I would hate to get one only to find it doesn't suit me for some reason. My email addy is [email protected]

Thanks for sharing pen - I have thought about leaving him a bit to cry. I find it awful hard though. My DH thinks that I need to do that as does my mother and the HV! I do think he now knows that if he screams I will eventually pick him up but sometimes I wonder if all that picking him up just keeps him awake.

I haven't had time to read this all now (will try later) but does anyone have any ideas how to put an 18 month old down awake?
DD has always been a good sleeper (sleeping through from 3 months-except for illness, disruption and now teething) but she is a very light sleeper and recently will wake with our blooming creeky floor boards or even when we lock the front door!!
I have always fed to sleep and then put her down-mainly as from very early on this was the only way we could get some sleep, but now its so much harder as she wakes so easily and I also have to do it for day time naps (although they are even worse as I have to actually hold her the whole time or she wakes up and then is a nightmare the rest of the day )

I know I should have done something before now but what can I say-I like my sleep!
It all came to a head last night when dp came home from squash and she woke up and he said he can't go on with a) have to make no noise in the evenings and b)then when she wake having to stay with her bent over the cot to get har back to sleep (i'm stil bf but tend not to feed her to sleep again unless she is ill or we are desparate!!)

Sorry for the long ramble but can anyone help withh some suggestions (we tried leaving her last night and she was stood up screaming and banging her head on the cot-she got herself into a right state )
we need some ideas!

ps i hate leaving her to cry (hence the 18 months of not doing so!) so if there are some other ways please tell me [begging emoticon]

sammy it might be better if you start a new thread with your question - click on "Add New Thread" above the top post on the page.

I know on the whole it's best to say 'stuff the parenting books', but on this I really did find the 'No-Cry Sleep Solution' very helpful. I do recommend the book for making you feel as though you're doing something about it all without ever making you feel you're failing.

It was the one book I found that understood how I felt about not letting dd cry alone in her cot. It gives practical tips on teaching your baby to drop off without sucking to sleep, by removing the baby from the breast and laying them down just before they are fully asleep. And if it doesn't work, according to this method you just pick them up and try again. And again. It was quite hard work but it did work for us in the end.

Until dd was a year old, that is, when she got ill and cut molars all in one go and we were back to square one re. sleeping.

I suppose what I want to say is that there are gentle ways of trying to achieve self-settling, but that equally progress is never linear so maybe you shouldn't worry too much at any particular stage. And whatever happens your baby will grow out of this. My dd was a pretty awful sleeper as a baby (I do believe they're all different BTW) but now is 3 and fab about it, settling herself in her own bed and sleeping till 8am usually.

Thanks IAteRosemary-i have done!
Maenad-i might have to go and get that book-i've tried to stay away from all the books but that sound like its worth a go!

I've only just come across this thread and was interested in the link between BF and sleeping. I understand that some people think that you need to set habits early: I did myself with DD1 because that's what everyone told me. I had no confidence in my own ability to parent back then and when DD2 was born I went with the flow. She does still wake up normally once a night (she is 20 months) for a replug of her dummy but settles immediately.Like some of you sometimes I cry and swear at my husband about it all, but mostly I trust that one day she'll be fine. BF her was more important to me and I did it for 14 months. I read a brilliant book called Why Love Matters by Sue Gerhardt which changed the way I view babyhood and mad me feel like c**p about how I interacted with DD1. It's a real eyeopener! Good luck Stefka. I hope you find an answer!

My dd is now 18 weeks and she seems to love being swaddled with arms in or out but likes to be wrapped up - I also put her in an all in one fleecy sleepsuit over babygro so she is nice and warm and cosy - grobags were a complete disaster with both my ds's. if she goes to bed awake i put on the mobile and baby machine thing that makes the sound of waves breaking - it is fab - sends me to sleep too if I sit down for too long! - but it is on a timer so will go off after 15 mins and it usually does the trick. Good luck with whatever you do - I think all babies are so different.

I completely understand what you are going through- I spent weeks thinking that I was doing something wrong because my dd would not settle herself to sleep- only to realise that it is very much to do with the individual characteristics of your baby. If put down awake she will scream and thrash about and although has never been left to cry, is quite capable of screaming for an hour or more with tiredness so leaving her has never really seemed like a good option! I was astounded when I went to a friend's house and saw her pop her baby in his cot and leave him- he drifted off without a grumble! I have had to get my dd into 'bad sleep habits' (cuddling, dummy, swaddling) in order to get her some sleep and me some sanity!

My dd2 is now 10weeks old, will fall asleep after 'last' feed at 7pm, but only alone if on his rocking/vibrating chair. As soon as he is asleep I creep back in and then place him in the cot. He then sleeps through til hunger wakes him again at 10pm (he most definitely is NOT sleeping through the night, much to my shock after DD1 was SO easy in the night).
So, although he's not quite falling asleep unaided in bed, he is by himself. I figure get him used to that first, and then worry about getting him to fall asleep alone, lying still.

Not sure whether this approach would be advisable, and I would probably be told off for leaving DD2 in the chair by himself for that time (I'm never far away, and he is securely strapped in), but it's working for us, and it means I and DH have our evenings back.

Mine are 5 and 3. Never ONCE went to sleep of own accord in cot in daytime. Never go to sleep of own accord now. Hav e given up and gone with the flow. Don't stress yourself by what "the books" say.

I had exactly the same problem with my DD at that age and was worried I'd got her into bad habits by always breastfeeding her to sleep but I just didn't know what else to do as I couldn't bear to hear her cry. Finally my sister sorted me out at Christmas as follows: start a good bedtime routine if you haven't got one already - mine is now bath at 6pm followed by breastfeed in dimly lit bedroom followed by 5 minutes of lullabies while she lies in her crib (sometimes she cries a bit, other times not). Then I say goodnight, give her a kiss, turn out the light and leave the room. She usually starts crying and in the past I would have picked her straight up. However it turns out that what I call "crying" is what my sister calls "whingeing" or "wailing" rather than real screaming - she would cry for a few minutes, then pause for a minute, cry for a few more minutes etc etc - the crying was never for 5 minutes solid. (If she cried for 5 minutes solid I promised myself I would go in but in fact that's never happened.) I know some would disagree with this but it worked really well for my baby and brought some sanity back into my life! She now sleeps really well and can settle herself back to sleep without crying if she wakes in the night, but she nearly always has a little cry when I first put her down - it just seems to be her way. Overall she is definitely happier and less tired (and so am I!) so I don't feel guilty at all. What I would say is don't get too stressed about it - he'll sleep well in the end and ignore all the dire warnings about bad habits as they just get you down. Good luck I know how hard it is.

I haven't read all the posts in detail so sorry if I'm repeating anything, but here are my thoughts:

• I loved Elizabeth Pantley's 'No Cry Sleep Solution'. Whenever I got stressed about the fact that dd couldn't go to sleep without help and didn't sleep through I would read this book and instantly feel better. I think this is the only book about sleep anybody should read! (My dd didn't sleep through once before 10 months old, and at 20 months has only been going to sleep alone for about 7 weeks; it has been hard work, but it has happened).
• love, affection and physical touch are far more important for a 14 week old baby's development than learning to go to sleep alone - that can come later. I firmly believe that leaving your baby to cry is bad news; it doesn't feel right, and that's for a reason. There's a reason a hungry mother's body sends out hormones to suppress hunger when that mother's baby crys... I fear that babies left to cry may be permanently damaged by the experience, as the stress hormones their bodies produce while they're crying affect the physical development of their brain. Read Sue Gerhardt's "Why love matters: how affection shapes a baby's brain" and I am sure you will worry less about any habits you may be forming - habits can be changed when the time is right for both of you.
• I feel that in my dd's case going to sleep alone has arrived at the point in her life when she can make sense of her world in her brain by herself. Sorry, I don't know how to express that very well. You can hear her going through the day as she goes to sleep - she sings songs we've sung, she says the names of people we've seen that day. I just don't think in her case she could do it until her verbal communication & memory kicked in.

That's it really. Just a big plea not to feel under pressure to do any 'sleep training' just because the books/experts say babies should go to bed awake. If you don't mind helping with the sleep process, go with it and try to have faith that things will end up where you want them to be; it may just take longer than books/mothers-in-law et al lead you to believe it should.

Stefka your baby sounds like mine . All I can do is reassure you that things will change. They do get used to being put down and eventually will settle without boob. DD is 15 months old now and I managed to stop BF altogether a few weeks ago and we just cuddle her to sleep. I know it seems like forever but it will change x

I too am the mother of a baby that will not settle by himself and I have got soo stressed about the whole indepenent sleep thing (have just ordered 'no cry sleep' book).

My DS just screams hysterically if left on his own or even if I sit next to his cot and has done so since he was born. I tried the baby whispering patting / shushing thing diligently for about the 1st 7 weeks of his life (he is now 14 weeks) but it just winds him up and I would spend 1-2 hours shushing while he howled, (feeling dreadful and often crying myself!) for 15 -20 minutes of fairly restless sleep.

I can't bear to listen to him howl and I find the levels of hysteria that he works himself up to actually quite frightening. The only thing that works is cuddling / bf in extremis and then I can get him to sleep peacefully (use GF bedtime routine, works brilliantly) in his cot at night (thank heavens) from 7 - 6 with only one wake up (most of the time anyway)but day time naps are a totally different story as although he will go down sometimes, often he wakes as soon as I lay him down
.
A friend whose baby is almost exactly the same age as my DS has had fantastic results with the whole sleep training thing that made my DS so angry. Goes to show that all babies really are different people! Wish my DS would respond well to training but am begining to realise that he is probably never going to. Lovely that it works for some people though, good for them

I agree that 14 weeks is early. However the 'leave the to do it by themselves school may be OK for some but it is no good if you are going back to work, have other children that need attention or just do not want to feel like a sleep deprived zombie. DS was not a self -settler at all would wake up and scream if transferred to crib, only fell asleep while breast feeding etc etc etc. I was completely sleep deprived and even crashed the car ( noone injured) one day when he was about 4 months. i tried a combination of things picked up on Mumsnet and in various books

1. sleep diary/record helps you to see if pattern emerging
2. co-slept for a while just to get some rest, help baby to put weight on and give us all a chance to recover
3. used cot as a play area with soft blocks musical mobile etc several times during day to get him used to it and not see it as a scary place
4. establish routine with bath massage then same lullaby CD playing every night while bf to sleep
5. Put down for naps awake but sleepy after a feed and patted shushed Did cry first time for about 10 minutes but whingy tired cry then fell asleep. Found it easier to do this for naps only at first as I was less tired myself.

Eventually fell asleep happily on his own (after about 3 days) Didn't sleep through til 7-8 months when I stopped night feeds and sent DH in with a bottle of water but that's another story.

Have you tried putting him down awake for his daytime naps and getting that right first? I have found it much easier to try and implement 'good habits' at the daytime naps when my DS is much calmer, and then transmitting over to bedtime...

This may sounds shocking but you could try to put baby to sleep on it's tum. I had a very preemie baby who when she finally came home would not settle at all (from having permanently slept). We had a rocking crib and I tied a piece of ribbon to it, and lay on the bed pulling the ribbon to rock whilst trying to sleep. As soon as I stopped rocking, she wailed. V stressful after a while. I had seen the nurses in the neonatal ward put her on her tummy from time to time, so I went for it. She settled SO much better after that. It is easier for them to bring up wind, to settle tummies etc on their tummy. One of the consultants at the hospital said the main concern with sleeping on the tummy is the baby overheating, so that is something I watched carefully. It might sound terrible to some, and if that is the case, you go with what seems best for you - your instinct. It worked for me. Good luck with it all. I've got no 2 on the way and am not looking forward to no sleep again!!