Sleep training - do you feel it affected your baby?

[abitfunny]

Just that really. My second son is nearly eight months old and sleep is pretty much non existent. He goes down fine (breastfed) but from the time I go to bed until morning he usually wakes hourly/every other. It is so bloody hard. We’ve fallen into the boob to sleep habit so he has no way of knowing how to self soothe.

I feel like our only option is to try some method of sleep training but am really worried that it might affect him long term. I hate the thought of them just giving up and going to sleep. But then i also hate the idea of me becoming so sleep deprived that I end up depressed.

Would love to hear of people’s experiences?

I sleep trained mine at 13mo and 9mo and it made us all happier. I was less pissed off and tired in the day, they slept through which I imagine supported their development.

The 'sleep training is damaging' idea is based on studies of children who were never responded to - neglect like in Romanian orphanages etc. If absolutely no one ever responds to a child's needs, that's obviously bad. It's a different kettle of fish to sleep training.

My little one is 13 months old and two weeks ago, I finally left him to cry after a year on sleep, getting worse not better, and as returning work was approaching, I went for it. After one night of tears from us both, I am now pleased to say that we are on night 13 of him sleeping 7-7. No wake ups, no going and putting dummy in. Our whole days are smoother, LO is less grumpy, my relationship with my hubby has improved and overall I feel a lot more positive. Didn't quite realise the impact the lack of sleep was having.

I can only see positives at the moment, and I am currently TTC and will now wait so long to do it with any future babes😊

@EnidFrighten unfortunately it's just me - which is kind of how we fell into this routine in the first place as I went for the easiest option which actually allowed me to get some decent sleep in. I've toyed with the idea of a sleep consultant but like you said was put off by the idea that they'd just tell me things I already know but am unable to achieve, if you see what I mean. You've made me look at it in a different light though in terms of having paid for a service and getting a routine to follow which will make it easier to stick to so I may give it some thought though it is very pricey.

I just feel so bad! She's here chattering away not having slept and I feel bad that I get angry and frustrated when things don't go the way I want them to.

What makes it worse is that the night time sleep isn't even that bad, it's just that I want to get her to bed for a reasonable time as she will be starting nursery and I will be going back to work soon so will need time in the evenings to eat and unwind after I've put her down.

Doesn't help that she's currently cutting a new tooth and like I said starting nursery so I think it may not be a good time to try and get her sleeping on her own now anyway with so many changes coming up. But again that may just be me giving myself another cop out :(

@Tee20x I’m so glad you posted as I’m exactly the same. My DD is 9 months and I am always completely mystified (and disheartened) by posts like this that make out sleep training takes one or two difficult nights, that don’t seem to include that much crying, and pretty easily, everyone is happier. Sounds so simple, doesn’t it.

We tried to sleep train using the Ferber method at 7 months and she screamed for just shy of two hours before I gave up. Then the next night at bedtime, she started screaming when I tried to put her in the cot - she was clearly terrified we were going to leave her again. It broke my heart.

So, for those that have sleep trained, what was it really like? Did your LO scream for hours and you just powered through, or was it really as simple as people are making out? Because I am very happy to sleep train to stop the regular night wakings, but my DD just doesn’t seem to stop screaming. Is my DD just extra stubborn, or are people painting a rosy picture of what it really takes?

@Tee20x that's tricky! You might find nursery tires her out enough that she goes to bed easier. But you're right, teething doesn't help!

Is she feeding throughout the night? DD co slept with me to 13 months, she just wanted to be latched on all flipping night and it did my back in and made me resentful.

Basically if she's always been fed to sleep, that's how she thinks going to sleep works. She doesn't know any other way. If she wakes in the night, she'll think - where's that boob gone? I need it to get back to sleep.

Sleep training is just nudging them in the direction of realising they can associate other things with sleep, like their cot, teddy, a song etc.

Like I said, not easy when you're doing it on your own but if you can commit to sticking out a method for a week, you're more likely to see results. I think trying something and giving up then trying again will make you both miserable and drag it all out, plus making you demoralised.

[quote notahugefan]@Tee20x I’m so glad you posted as I’m exactly the same. My DD is 9 months and I am always completely mystified (and disheartened) by posts like this that make out sleep training takes one or two difficult nights, that don’t seem to include that much crying, and pretty easily, everyone is happier. Sounds so simple, doesn’t it.

We tried to sleep train using the Ferber method at 7 months and she screamed for just shy of two hours before I gave up. Then the next night at bedtime, she started screaming when I tried to put her in the cot - she was clearly terrified we were going to leave her again. It broke my heart.

So, for those that have sleep trained, what was it really like? Did your LO scream for hours and you just powered through, or was it really as simple as people are making out? Because I am very happy to sleep train to stop the regular night wakings, but my DD just doesn’t seem to stop screaming. Is my DD just extra stubborn, or are people painting a rosy picture of what it really takes?[/quote]
@notahugefan

We did gradual retreat method. With DD, I anticipated horrors and went out when DH did it the first time. I came back an hour later and he said she was asleep within 10 minutes. It took about a week to get her to not cry at all when put in her cot, she would look happy and chat to herself until she went off. DS was about the same. I don't think either of them ever cried more than about 40 minutes. It was hard and I wanted to tear my hair out, but overall worth it and a lot less crying than if they continued to wake several times in the night and get upset about it.

I did it gently. You have to break sleep training down.

• falling asleep without boob
• falling asleep with no crutch, aka patting shushing
• falling asleep in got
• staying asleep sans boob
• staying asleep sans boob IN cot

If you try all of them at once I suspect it will lead to distress/resistance. I used the Pantley Pull off (from the No Cry book). And stopped feeding to sleep. But I would pat. And he co-slept. (This took about 2 weeks).
Then I slowly over 2 weeks reduced the duration of the patting.
Then I would tuck, one pat and sit on my chair.
Then tuck, one pat and leave the room.
This took maybe a month. So we had gone from feeding to sleep to being able to fall asleep in my bed independently.

I also refused to feed before a set time so say 4 am. So at every wake up I would pat back to sleep. Slowly he started to connect the cycles.

Then once we were consistently sleeping in my bed with one feed and falling asleep alone (so this whole process took 8 weeks?), I introduced the cot. In our room.

He was happy in the cot quite quickly. He then stayed in our room till he dropped the 4 am feed at about a year old.
And then when he had consistently done that we moved him to his own room.
I breastfed till 18 months but he would fall asleep independently and sleep all night.

And got is obviously COT

I can’t prove cause and effect but my experience is…possibly. Eldest never sleep trained, woke through the night to 18 months, only napped on me, all that fun stuff - she was at many times a miserable, chronically sleep deprived baby. Still finds it hard to settle to sleep now aged 10 though does at least sleep all night! But confident and outgoing in life generally.

Youngest trained from early days and as a result she and I were much better rested. She was an absolutely delightful baby and toddler. But she is quite an anxious almost 7 year old and I will always wonder how much sleep training played a part in that.

It hugely benefited mine as he ended up getting proper sleep and so did I which transformed me into a much happier nicer mother.

If sleep training damaged babies longterm then a major proportion of the population would be damaged as SO many people do it. All the actual robust evidence shows if babies have a healthy loving attachment with their caregiver, with lots of consistent attention and affection, then they are not going to be affected by a few nights where they have some prolonged crying at night.

Mine went from waking every 45 minutes to sleeping through until 5am, over the course of one night where he cried twice for nearly two hours each time, from 10pm to midnight and 4am to 6am (with me going in to try to comfort him but that only made him angrier/more upset). It was so upsetting for me and I was so convinced that he must have been traumatised that I couldn't believe it when he smiled up at me and gooed and ga-ed after our 6am feed as if nothing had happened! He was so lovely and happy as soon as he'd had some milk. And then went on to sleep through. He also immediately started going down easily for naps in the day and sleeping much longer for naps after we did the night training. I did the training when he was six months.

It does really matter when you do it as it can be much easier or conversely more distressing for a child depending on their age, as they go through different stages where separation anxiety is more acute. There is data on this. There's a book which has all this in with a really helpful table of when you should and shouldn't do controlled crying but I cant find it now, will keep looking.

My son is an extremely loving and happy 4 year old now :)

@notahugefan it's really difficult isn't it. I'm not adverse to sleep training if it was just a few days of crying and then a better sleeper, but I fear (from what I've already seen) that DD is stubborn and resistant (a lot like me haha) and it will be a long slog.

Like the few times I've tried to get the ball rolling she just doesn't seem to settle down. The latest was 1.5 hours of on and off crying/screaming. A lot of it is due to anger and frustration that she's not getting what she wants - I don't mind that cry too much. But it's the ones where I can genuinely hear that she's upset and just wants a hug that reduces me to tears.

How i wish it was just 10-20 mins of crying and then she just fell asleep.

I'm thinking I may wait for a few more months - with DDs teeth coming in and her starting nursery and me going back to work, I think it will be too much upheaval :(.

@EnidFrighten she does feed throughout the night - some nights more than others and it literally feels like she's attached to me all night and my boob feels like a deflated pancake. Other nights where she only wakes up 1-2 times she may just have a quick feed and go off to sleep.

Of late, she's been resisting naps during the day and night time sleep is completely out of whack so I'm wondering if that's due to the teething or if she's trying to drop down to one nap - though it seems quite early to be doing that. But I think last week she had one nap a day for 6/7 days. Again today, she's finally asleep having refused her morning nap so I'm not sure what's going on at all.

She is able to get back to sleep via rocking/swaying so she doesn't always have to be fed to sleep.

Ideally I wanted to have this all sorted out before this stage as I know when I start working it's going to be a lot harder - but here we are!

Also another question to everyone - with the sleep training, how do you deal with night wake ups. I'm assuming you still have to do whatever method of sleep training you used to get them to sleep. So if CIO do you just leave them to cry at night? If Ferber do you start doing that in the middle of the night?

Or does sleep training tend to just magic them into sleeping through the night anyway?

My sons are much older, adults now, but I was always a zombie at night. When they woke and cried, I would feed them, change nappy, and then put them back to bed. I hear people talking about how their child wants attention when they wake in the night, and I wonder if mine were easier to sleep train because I was so out-of-it in the nighttimes and it was not fun for them when they woke up. You may need to minimize interactions at night before trying to sleep train.

Did it at 8 months, a bit of crying that first night but that was all. I did a sort of version of Ferber, so controlled crying, but shortened the intervals a bit so she wasn’t left so long. DD has slept brilliantly ever since. I think she was fundamentally able to sleep for long stretches, just wasn’t doing it because of habit, and it didn’t take long at all to break the habit. She was exactly the same happy baby in the morning as she’d been the day before, and had a much happier mother. 3.5 years on and I’m yet to witness any ill-effects.

Obviously all babies are different and what works for one won’t work for another. But the idea it “damages” them isn’t founded on good scientific evidence so if you do decide you want to try something, don’t let that be the reason you don’t. (Or you might decide not to, which is totally ok too. Either way your baby will be absolutely fine.)

I did it when DD was 8/9 months old, she was breastfed and had stopped falling asleep on the boob consistently so was still rocking which was wrecking our backs and it was a farce as you'd get her to sleep then she'd wake being put down. It was taking 30-60 mins each nap time to settle and 60 mins at bedtime which was just too much for us personally.

Did Pick up Put Down initially which helped her to learn we were right there if she needed us but that she could fall asleep alone. Then eventually moved onto CC for a couple of minutes a time increasing until she realised that she could cry and we would come back in but there would be no rocking, no playing, just quietness and shushing and patting.

Now at 15 months she is able to fall asleep independently and will sleep 6.30/7 - 6ish most nights bar illness/teething or regressions.
When she is in one of the above she can cry if we leave the room but we will still leave for a couple of minutes as occasionally she will shout cry (not really very upset more annoyed) for a minute then sleep. If she doesn't settle we go in and cuddle as usually there is an issue in that case as we know she can self settle so something is stopping her. It was a slog and a battle and heart wrenching at times but I am useless without sleep and I don't regret it. She is happy, confident and securely attached to me and DH.

My DD was exactly like your DC. At around 12 months I tried both gradual retreat and controlled crying to no avail (hours later no closer to sleep and both of us really distressed) - she’s one of that small percentage of really stubborn DC that it just doesn’t work for. I’ve got to be honest I didn’t really like the idea but tried out of desperation as I was so worried she would never sleep because of the ‘bad habits’ I’d created. However, I don’t think either of us were negatively affected beyond those two nights that I tried it, and had it worked I’m sure I’d have been happy with my decision.

As someone well through the other side of it now (although DC2 is due very soon, hoping for a sleeper this time!) I can say that you don’t necessarily have to sleep train. If you want to try it for your own well being then go ahead. If you are leaning towards trying it because of fears of future habits and it doesn’t feel right to you, then don’t. I really wish I hadn’t stressed so much and just concentrated on getting all the sleep I could by the methods that worked for us (feeding to sleep and co-sleeping from the point she was too unsettled in her cot). Yes I was shattered, but for me the worry that I was getting it wrong was worse than the disturbed sleep.

DD is now 4. She was a poor sleeper until she no longer needed a daytime nap at 2. She did improve a bit when we stopped breastfeeding before this, but not massively. At 3 and 4 she went to sleep easily but needed one of us with her and usually climbed in with us at some point every night, but without waking us. Now, she gets a story and a kiss, she’s left alone and is asleep very quickly. Mostly sleeps through but occasionally comes to us for a cuddle then back in her own bed, or climbs in with us for half an hour before we get up. She just got it when she was ready. Sleep train if it works for you but don’t stress about the future if it doesn’t or you decide it’s not for you.

@Tee20x

Also another question to everyone - with the sleep training, how do you deal with night wake ups. I'm assuming you still have to do whatever method of sleep training you used to get them to sleep. So if CIO do you just leave them to cry at night? If Ferber do you start doing that in the middle of the night?

Or does sleep training tend to just magic them into sleeping through the night anyway?

You treat wake ups the same as going to sleep at night.

I think you need a routine for naps as well as the night - being up for too long in the day can counterintuitively make them resist sleeping at night as they are overtired. Fresh air and exercise helps too.

I know none of this is as easy as I'm making it sound!

Yes and both kids sleep so well now. Also they absolutely haven't learned that no one is coming for them or anything, if they are unwell or need something, they cry or come into us just fine

It's actually helped me understand if my son actually does need something. Once he learned to go to sleep himself it means if he is upset or unsettled now I know something is wrong and I can lie cuddling him or whatever he needs

Sleep training improved both of my DC's lives, along with mine and DH's. We did DD when she was 14mo, and DS when he was 8mo. I couldn't have carried on for another day, either time, and with DS I did it a lot earlier because I knew how bad it could get.

They're 7 and 3 now. Neither of them have any recollection of it at all. They're happy, secure and sleep perfectly from bedtime until at least 7am. We went from waking every 30-45mins to sleeping through.

It's not pleasant at the time, and it doesn't always work, but when it does it's a miracle.

We did CC btw, settling then going in after 1min, then 2, then 3, etc. We agreed to never go over 10mins (planning to just redo the 10) but we didn't get over 8mins.

You will get lots of different views OP. We did CIO as I was at my wits end with hourly wake ups. DD was 10 months old and we’d been waking hourly since birth practically. I tried everything beforehand- gentle methods, gradual retreat, PUPD, the lot. Nothing worked. Ferber did work but it was very traumatic for me as DD cried for about 5 hours. She eventually slept well after a couple of weeks but any small change, we were back at square one - 5 hours of crying on the first night. Changes included illness, teething, staying over somewhere else, anything. I was very consistent and did it all by the book. In the end I gave up and co slept and she started sleeping through after I night weaned her at 13 months.

I’m just writing this as sometimes it’s not as straightforward as some people have it. Your baby is an individual and some take much longer or don’t take to it at all.

I did (using a gentle approach) and the children are absolutely fine (as far as I know). I believe that sleep is so fundamental to brain development and mental health that I wouldn't not do it. Some of my friends believe that it is detrimental to babies to do this. Do whatever works for you

She was an absolutely delightful baby and toddler. But she is quite an anxious almost 7 year old

If she was going to be anxious because of the sleep training it probably would have appeared earlier on instead of taking years.