Cries himself to sleep

[MamaV]

Hi, I'm new to mumsnet and need some advice. My ds is 4 months old and cries every time he goes to sleep. Until he was 3 months old we used to rock him to sleep, then tried to use the pu/pd method to sleep train him. He eventually goes to sleep after about 15/20 mins (sometimes takes longer) but he basically cries himself to sleep. I don't know what to do, it breaks my heart that he cries himself to sleep everyday and during the day he only sleeps for 30/45 mins so it seems like he is crying for the same amount of time that he is sleeing.

my dd was just the same - it didn't matter if we were with her or not she seemed to need to cry before sleep. Is he cheerful the rest of the time? If it's any help my dd is now 18 months and asks to go to bed - a situation I NEVER thought would happen. Could you leave the sleep training til older?

Hi n welcome :0) I can only offer my experience, with my dd, in that upto about 8 mths, she too always had to cry herself to sleep, even if it was only for 5 minutes, just to let me know that she was still there I guess?! She seems to have grown out of it now tho? I wouldn't worry too much at least he's getting to sleep right?! how long does he go for?

Thanks for the replies guys. Ninja, when he's awake he is really cheerful, that's what makes it harder. It's as tho the crying makes him really tired which put's him to sleep. Lockets, whether he's trying to use up all his energy ... maybe?! Frizbe, he only sleeps for about 30/40 mins during the day and at night he only goes for 3 hours till he wants food (being breastfed) .. sometimes he can wake up 3 or 4 times a night. I think maybe it's me reading his signals wrong, maybe I'm not putting him down at the right time. There have been a few occasions that he has gone off to sleep completely on his own so I know he can do it.

Some babies do just cry themselves to sleep. It's as if they need to discharge stress. My ds cried himself to sleep (daytimes only, very rarely at night) until he was about 7-8m old, but over the weeks I could see that the crying time got shorter. At about 4m, when we started being methodical about naps, the crying lasted 20-30m, but was clearly diminishing in intensity, and within 6w or so it was 10m, stayed that way for a couple of months, then dropped to 5m, then disappeared entirely - oddly enough when we went on holiday and for the first time he slept in a strange cot in a strange room.

Mamav one pretty experienced children's nurse told me that she thought it was a baby's way of winding down after a busy day - the only way they could respond to all the new simulus they'd had. It was based on anything scientific just her observation. This was a comfort to me as dd got herself off to sleep by doing this for 20 mins or so every night for a couple of months.

Good to know there are their are others who have had the same issue and that it will get better. Do you think I Should carry on with the pu/pd at all naps, including night, or leave him to cry in the cot while I'm there just reassuring him? Don't like the thought of leaving him to cry on his own for 20 mins.

MamaV does the pu/pd work at all? Have you tried it much? I think it can take some time and effort. I have not tried it myself and used to use a cradle with wheels until 6 months.

Also do you own a sling - the baby can sleep in the sling and it is a nice form of reassurance.

If you are bf him does him ever fall asleep on the breast? He is still young so you could try and put him down to sleep when he is nearly asleep. It does sometimes take babies awhile to learn to fall to sleep, so doing it gradually may help reduce the crying.

hth, all the best and welcome to MN

Papillon, pu/pd seemed to be working well at the beginning, crying was slowly reducing but things have done a turn now.
Have tried the sling ... doesn't seem to want to fall asleep in it, although it worked when he was younger.
He does fall asleep while feeding, will try putting him down when nearly asleep. Maybe I am not giving it long enough, it's only been a few weeks ... it just gets so difficult with the lack of sleep.

Yes MamaV hard when you are knackered. I started putting my dd in her bed when almost asleep when the moment seemed right and then slowly increased the frequency and level of awakeness over time. As babies can be fickle and changeable I followed her cues for when to do this as she seemed to adapt and learn better that way. Must say I loved the wheels on her little bed too... and used it lots even though all the experts said not too. For me I felt the trick was to use different ways, to show her how to learn to fall asleep. Diversity is not really talked about with babies I guess, more routine, but they can learn lots of variations and hopefully be more flexible about sleep.
I also used the sling just for closeness so that when sleep time came she had already had alot of mummy cuddles.

MamaV, my DS is 3 1/2 months and I find that if I put him down for a nap when he first shows signs of tiredness then he only whimpers for a minute or so before dropping off. If I put him down when he's become too tired then he sometimes cries rather than whimpers, and the more tired he is the longer it takes him to settle. Do you think it's possible that he is too tired when you put him down?

Snoomoon, it is a possibility that he is too tired when I put him down to sleep. I never seem to be able to get it right ... Sometimes he isn't ready to sleep and he lies there smiling in his cot (if I leave him there he will eventually start screaming) and other times he is crying as soon as we enter the bedroom (it's as if he knows what's coming!) He doesn't start rubbing or yawning till he is crying (overtired, I guess) ... my only signal that he is sleepy (that I can tell) is his moaning. Any advice on how to put him to sleep at the right time? Thx

believe it or not the crying will get less when you put him down, my grandson screamed the place down, my daughter has a thread about it on here, so i went round and put him down just to show her that letting him cry was ok each night it got less till end of the week not a sound, as long as hes clean dry, fed winded and warm, he will get the hang of it

MamaV, if your DS doesn't show signs until he's too tired then that's quite difficult. With my DS when he's tired he: rubs eyes, pulls ears, turns head from side to side rapidly, turns away when I try to play with him, etc. Does your DS do any of these?

Also, my DS gets tired about 1 1/2 hours after he wakes from a nap, as regular as clockwork, so it's easy to me to work out when he's likely to be tired. Perhaps you can try and work out how long it takes for him to get tired in between naps?

Looking at your first post, it sounds like you've been doing the pu/pd for a month, is that right? And your DS still crying the same amount of time (15/20 minutes) before going to sleep? If so perhaps the pu/pd method is just not for him. Some babies get more worked up being picked up and put down repeatedly.

Snoomoon, pu/pd seemed to work well at the begining but then the crying got worse and longer ... thought I'd try some CC today but couldn't go through with it he seemed so upset. About the signs .. my DS does the turn the head thing ... will have to keep looking for more signs.

Sorry, that should have been Snowmoon