How do you deal with early wakes?

[MinnieMouse92]

Hi,

I have had one previous longggg thread regarding my little boys naps, but I just wondered how you best deal with early wakes when they happen? He sleeps ok at night, independently settles etc. His naps have gone pear shaped and I assume he is overtired hence the early wakes. I am trying to sort these naps out, but at the same time trying not to consume myself anymore than I already am in flogging a dead horse if it’s just a phase. I just wondered how you go about the day when waking early (5am). As some things I read say not to offer a nap before a certain time, but I struggle with this concept when it’s ingrained that a baby that’s been awake to long and is overtired will struggle to nap well. When he does wake early, he will babble happily in his cot for ages, and doze on and off, so to be honest I never really know when the wake window should start anyway! I just try and keep him in bed as close to 7am as possible. To be honest I am so riddled with anxiety about the whole affair that as soon as he stirs, I am awake calculating when he might need to nap etc, so am awake anyway, but I just wondered what everyone does? It’s all a bit much isn’t it all this…

Mines the same, she’s 6 months but for the last 2 months I can’t get to sleep past 5am.

She goes to bed at 6.30/7pm because she’s literally falling asleep but I feel she’s rubbing her eyes all day. We do a 40min nap around 8 and try for 2 hours at 11.30 then one last 20min nap at 3.45/4.

If I let her sleep longer at the morning nap she’s likely to only do an hour at lunch so it still makes no difference to her bedtime. She also still ears for a feed in the night. We did get this pushed right back till 4/4.30 but it all went to shit.

We're the same. I pushed bedtime to 815pm last night as last nap ended 530pm. Woke 530am 😴 I think from what I seen fatedestiny write and such takes 2 weeks of any changes to make a noticeable difference if its going to work

@Newmum29 it’s such a minefield and I struggle to see any correlation between late bedtime/early bedtime, more day sleep/less day sleep, wake time etc. I knew being a new mum was going to be a guessing game but I never knew the impact of poxy naps! I do think it’s the sheer amount of conflicting information out that can and you feel like even when you’re doing the “right” things and what you feel is best, you still feel like you’re getting it all wrong. I am seeing a pattern though, and it’s that TOO many of us are getting stressed and anxious about all of this. Surely it should not be that way. Especially when you sound mental trying to explain to the previous generation about wake windows etc, honestly my mum would think I was mental. It seems years ago, babies slept when they were tired and that was that… so what’s changed 😂

Oh I totally get you, my friends without kids also get so confused. “What do you mean overtired? Surely if they’re tired they’ll just go to sleep?”

Since she was born naps have been the bane of my life. She’s an absolute joy but between 1-3 months we had to rock her to sleep for every nap. She’d do one sleep cycle then you had to put her in the pram.

We tried everything. Sleep school (I’m in Aus and you actually go to a residential place filled with midwives to help!). Sleep consultant (she was great but it worked till it didn’t). Gentle ish sleep training to teach her to self settle.

It’s such a faff.

😂 😂 Yes naps as bane of life. Literally my mums like just let her fall asleep when she's tired that's what you did, grandparents say the same too ...... Mmmm yes that's good in theory. But if I left my LO she be up all day 😂

FATEdestinyshould a third nap be forced after this time do you think?

No, I would be aiming for 234 2-nap days, with a third nap only if the 2nd nap ends early. I would have forced the earlier morning nap though, in the routine you gave.

Thank you @FATEdestiny. This is where I feel totally clueless, that 2hr wake window worked for ages when he was on 3 naps in the morning, but over time he has been fighting that and chatting away for ages when putting him down and then getting upset, and then when he does drop off only sleeping for 30-40mins, so I started playing about with it, and more often than not then getting a longer nap when out down a bit later. Which I thought when going for the nap transition 2 longer naps would work better. I just don’t know anymore xx

@FATEdestiny

FATEdestinyshould a third nap be forced after this time do you think?

No, I would be aiming for 234 2-nap days, with a third nap only if the 2nd nap ends early. I would have forced the earlier morning nap though, in the routine you gave.

Sorry to hijack the thread OP, but just a follow-up question on this if I can @FATEdestiny because this is the problem I’m facing - how to manage dropping the 3rd nap whilst also not having a really early bedtime? As an example, yesterday my day went as follows:

6.30 wake
8.30 - 9.30 nap
12.30 - 14.30 nap

Now, because of the early start and the shorter first nap, using the 2-3-4 approach, I’m therefore looking at a 6.30 bedtime. But I know my LO prefers a later bedtime (as do I). So I tried to squeeze in a late nap, but she really kicked off (hence why we’re confident she’s ready to drop this nap).

But if I don’t get her to bed later, then we’ve got the early starts. It’s a cycle.

Do I have to go with this early bedtime/early rise through the transition and hope that as her first nap lengthens (which it is slowly - today she’s done 1hr 10 and is still napping), we can shift our day backwards again?

And on a linked point - how early can bedtime be to avoid a 3rd nap? So is 2pm the cut off time - if the second nap is 2pm or later, we go for an early bedtime, but any earlier and we have to have a 3rd nap and have a later bedtime?

I’m aware I am probably massively overthinking it, but I’ve worked so hard on her naps and as a result, I have a baby that is well rested on the whole, and don’t want this transition period to lead to any overtiredness.

And apologies again OP for the cheeky hijack!

@canyoutoleratethis not a problem! @FATEdestiny is going to hate us… serves her right for being so bloody good at what she does 😂

[quote MinnieMouse92]**@canyoutoleratethis* not a problem! @FATEdestiny* is going to hate us… serves her right for being so bloody good at what she does 😂[/quote]
Bless you @MinnieMouse92!! She must love us clueless worriers the most!!

how to manage dropping the 3rd nap whilst also not having a really early bedtime?

Bedtime usually does get earlier and/or become inconsistent through the transition (Same when moving from 2-naps to 1-nap). Just accept you gave to be flexible through the change. Once the transition is over and baby is used to 2 naps days, then start pushing that final awake window to move back to a later bedtime.

So focus initially not on bedtime/wakeup, but on a consistent 2-nap daytime routine. Once you have that, then shift your focus to a bedtime/wake time that suits your family. Doing both at the same time will cause you a lot of stress.

how early can bedtime be to avoid a 3rd nap?

That is entirely subjective and depends on how your family rhythms work.

A friend of mine likes to walk her (reactive) dog very early mornings, in order to avoid other dogs. So she's always up, dressed and out the door by 5.30am. So when our daughters were young she maintained a 6pm bedtime because she was happy taking baby out in pushchair at 5.30am. Whereas I was taxiing 3 older siblings to sports clubs 6-8pm every evening, 6pm is definately daytime in our house, not night time. So bedtime for baby was 8.30pm - that gave me much more reasonable morning wake ups.

I'm waffling....

2pm is a reasonable cut-off. Work it from where your tolerance of latest/earliest bedtime is, and how long baby can do awake before bed - and work backwards from that.

I was told that if they nap before 9 they're finishing their nighttime sleep.

@TheLovelinessOfDemons that’s what I’ve read too! But then I’ve also read that putting them down too late after their wake up that you’re then encroaching overtired-ness from the off. I am starting to think there is no right or wrong here 😂 I think I’ll do what Fate has suggested about and structure in 2 times naps and go from there, being flexible with bed time etc. I can’t do this headache and worry about it every single day anymore

I really didn't do any of this with mine, I put them down when they were tired and got them up when they woke up. It only had to be mor structured when DS3 started preschool, as he'd miss his nap and then crash out in the buggy when I picked him up, until I woke him at 5 for dinner.

*more

@FATEdestiny

how to manage dropping the 3rd nap whilst also not having a really early bedtime?

Bedtime usually does get earlier and/or become inconsistent through the transition (Same when moving from 2-naps to 1-nap). Just accept you gave to be flexible through the change. Once the transition is over and baby is used to 2 naps days, then start pushing that final awake window to move back to a later bedtime.

So focus initially not on bedtime/wakeup, but on a consistent 2-nap daytime routine. Once you have that, then shift your focus to a bedtime/wake time that suits your family. Doing both at the same time will cause you a lot of stress.

how early can bedtime be to avoid a 3rd nap?

That is entirely subjective and depends on how your family rhythms work.

A friend of mine likes to walk her (reactive) dog very early mornings, in order to avoid other dogs. So she's always up, dressed and out the door by 5.30am. So when our daughters were young she maintained a 6pm bedtime because she was happy taking baby out in pushchair at 5.30am. Whereas I was taxiing 3 older siblings to sports clubs 6-8pm every evening, 6pm is definately daytime in our house, not night time. So bedtime for baby was 8.30pm - that gave me much more reasonable morning wake ups.

I'm waffling....

2pm is a reasonable cut-off. Work it from where your tolerance of latest/earliest bedtime is, and how long baby can do awake before bed - and work backwards from that.

That all makes perfect sense, thank you!

I wish I could remember what I did! DS3 was definitely in the buggy by 8.20 to take his brother to school from 4 months, so he'd naturally fall asleep.

Another 2 nap day yesterday (9.00-10.30 & 2.00-4.00), bed at 8pm and woke at 5.45am. It worries me that he’s only getting about 9.5hrs sleep overnight, I feel like that isn’t enough for him x

Hey @MinnieMouse92! Unfortunately I have zero helpful advice about that early wake, but I just wanted to reassure you that you’re doing amazing with naps, so please don’t be too disheartened. I know it’s hard, but you’re clearly doing a lot that’s right!! x

Thank you @canyoutoleratethis. It’s not even that early to be honest and I am awake anyway, I just worry about the overall hours of sleep for him. I’m over worrying it, I know I am, I just don’t know how to stop. Hope things are ok with you and your babe

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you. My Bub miraculously slept through till 6.30 the last 2 nights, no idea why..

Thank you @Newmum29! Had a good few 2 nap days, I have been sticking with putting him down at 9am regardless of how early he wakes, been getting 1.5h nap then, and again at 2pm, been getting 1.5-2hrs again then. Was pushing 8pm bedtime but he was really really tired, did 7.30 the last 2 nights and had a 6am wake yesterday and 6.30 today! I am not holding my breath though (touches all wooden items around me 😂). Just feel a bit less stressed knowing when I’ll be aiming to get him down for a nap rather than constant maths in my all day long! So glad you’ve had a couple of later wake ups

How's it going for everyone? I still have good old 530/6 wake ups zombie feeling right now.

I been looking at old threads and heard that adding a dream feed can help discourage the wake up as they may be hungry but not hungry enough to take a full feed..... 🤔

Hey @Fancyties! Still hit and miss here too, got down to a good 2 nap day and reasonable wake time but it’s all gone a bit haywire again, naps questionable and 5.15 wake this morning! DS does have a cold though, and he’s really trying to learn to do stuff so just trying not to stress about it… going away for a few days tomorrow, I know from a holiday when he was 5months that he does not sleep well away so there’s always that to look forward to 😂

I did a dream feed u til he was about 6months old, it really did wonders from 3-6m but stopped when he went into his own room, he didn’t really want it and I found it actually disturbed that first chunk of good sleep he was having. Have you tried it to help with the early wakes? X

Hope you have a lovely holiday! Oh no still hit and miss. Hard to not stress isn't it.

Yep I was the same stopped it at 6 months but she was still in our room when I stopped it. Haha I have to say I'm too scared to try it as thought it may disturb her too much I do have 730pm till 530am so I can't complain too much. But still would like a little later. I do get an occasional night feed but that's pettering out.... Jinxed myself now.

I have started moving everything 15 minutes later in the hopes that I can get later mornings, also with the time moving back at end of month I'm being prepared. As she was having her morning feed at 6am, so now I have got to 645am and pushing naps 15 mins later etc. Also I'm hoping to add a supper after evening bottle when I get there in hopes that it may help x