Could something be wrong with my 2yo? Please help

[Cakeandslippers]

Hello, I'm feeling very broken and sad right now so please be gentle 😔. I can hear my 2yo upstairs having a complete meltdown, it's been constant for over 2 hours now, I've had to come downstairs as I just feel so awful I can't bear it (husband is with her).

She's always been a bad sleeper but since Christmas she's refusing to go to bed, not just refusing but it's a nightly meltdown, and I've never known anything like it, she's like a wild animal, she gave herself a black eye the other week throwing herself around her room (we were there but it's impossible to stop her, she's strong).

We've got a solid bedtime routine and she likes it, she's fine till it's time to lie down and she just won't. Then it escalates most nights to a horrendous meltdown.

We've tried lying with her to go to sleep, she either refuses to lie down or just messes around and it can go on for 2-3 hours. On the advice of the HV we tried just putting her in bed everytime she got out (3 nights of 50+ times putting hat in bed, she screamed a lot it was awful, it seemed to work on night 4, she didn't scream and went to sleep, but after 3 relatively good bedtimes we were back to normal). We've tried the No Cry Sleep Solution, it didn't work at all.

She normally has no screen time after about 3ish, often none after 10am. Naps are hit and miss as she does the same screaming for naps with me so they often don't happen, though she will nap at her childminder or grandparents no problem. Nap situation doesn't seem to impact on bedtime at all either way.

She was getting grumpy at tea times so I started involving her with cooking and it's helped loads so she's eating plenty and happy enough before bedtime most nights.

She's also waking and shouting for dad 1-5 times a night, sometimes settles ok, sometimes has a complete meltdown and normally in between.

We also have a 7 month old who I feel isn't getting the attention he deserves because of this, I never get any time with my husband as the baby also wakes a lot and so we're in separate rooms and evenings are taken up with the 2yo battles. I'm so stressed and sad, feel like we're doing something horribly wrong as she's so unhappy. But I'm now wondering if this is even normal, everyone I know who's had similar issues can at least lay with their child to get them to sleep, she normally just crashes out from exhaustion and I hate the idea she's crying herself to sleep every night, its breaking my heart.

Is it possible there's something wrong with her? Or have we done something terribly wrong? I'm just so sad and tired and I don't know what to do.

I came on here to say get ears checked! Does she snore when she's sleeping?

@alltalknobaby I have thought about this many times over the past year or so but the cost is obviously huge! My husband thinks they'll all just do a variation of controlled crying and so it's not worth the money as we could just look that up ourselves. In your experience did they help with your specific issue or was it just more general cc?

@ginflinger embarrassing I don't know 🙈 I will ask my husband. I rarely succeed in getting her to sleep and he has to do the night shift as I'm with the baby.

Would she sleep with you? We gave up much earlier and just let ours cosleeping until they decided they wanted to sleep alone. Dd1 was 2 1/2, dd2 was hmmm 6. I can't be bothered with bedtime battles, I prefer they are happy

IP although mine both had rank ears, neither were they ever great sleepers. DS never needed more than 8 hours from about 11 months and dd never more than 10.

In the end we went with the flow and accepted their patterns and ahem, our mothers said we were the same . It was much better though when the ears were sorted and it stopped the night waking and sobbing.

if it's any consolation they both started reception free reading and are both at Cambridge

Poor you, OP - this sounds really tough. About sleep consultant, in case it’s useful, we worked with a lovely lady called Lucy Bagwell who doesn’t do ‘cry it out’ and has a very gentle but effective approach - you’ll find her if you google Second Star To The Right. She helped us with our baby who was refusing to nap and didn’t have any bedtime routine but I know she works with older children too. Her Instagram has lots of good advice I think.
Sending you strength! So hard when you have a baby co-sleeping and no respite at all. I hope things improve soon.

@mootymoo I dont know but I'm already cosleeping with the baby who wakes and cries quite a lot so I don't think it's an option really (also i hate cosleeping, i did cosleep with her most of the time till she was 12mo, she was still awful then!).

@RosesAndHellebores thank you, I'm much closer to being able to accept it than I ever have been, I just need to work out how to stop the meltdowns. It's really interesting what you've just said as she seems to be scarily clever, was speaking in full sentences by 18 months, can identify all her numbers and quite a lot of letters (all off her own back) and people who we meet (say at the park) are often v surprised at her age based on some of the things she talks about she only turned 2 in January. Perhaps it's all connected.

I had a very very intelligent non-sleeper too. Nothing I did (and I tried everything) worked. Best thing was "camping". I would make a tent using sheets /blankets over couch in living room and she would sit in there with a book and eventually go to sleep. Might be worth a try. Basically I just gave up on bed time and let her fall. Eventually when she was nearly 3 she started wanting her bed. She's now 4 and goes to her bed by herself, puts her own lullabies and goes to sleep. So it will get better.
Check her ears though. 2nd child had recurrent ear infections, needed grommets, only sign was behaviour and not wanting to lie flat.
I know it's shit. You have my sympathies.

Weighted blanket helped my poor sleeper, she still battled a bit not to have it on when she realised how quickly it was sending her to sleep but she snuggles under it without bother now. We also play a children’s meditation on loop, lavender bath and sleep spray.

One of my Dc never napped during the day from literally birth. She was really bright and well advanced and literally didn’t need a nap. I tried to get her to nap during the day and it never worked. If she did nap day on a long car journey then night time she was wide awake. I would drop Day naps. She is obviously a bright child and maybe dropping the nap will help her sleep. Good luck

Well I’ve never hoped for a child to be ill before..... but fingers crossed she’s got an ear infection and seeing the doctor solves it for you!

It’s shit now but it will get better!

I know it’s probably ridiculous to suggest but could you get a yoga mat and do some stretches and meditation before bed? If you can get her lying down deep breathing for a couple of minutes at the end it might relax her and her drop off on the mat?
I tend to fall asleep at yoga so it might work. Don’t even mention it being bedtime as you start or do the normal routine.

Thanks everyone. Your thoughts and kind words are all much appreciated.

After finally going to sleep sometime after 10, she was up again shouting and refusing to get back into bed at 12.30 🥴 and up for the day at 6.30. The baby slept better than normal though so that's a positive.

I'm so sure about dropping her nap, she always seems tired, I'm scared if we abandon them completely it'll just make things worse and I can't bear that thought.

@chanandlerbong01 (love the name!), not a ridiculous idea, might be worth a shot, though I can't see her going to sleep tbh as any hint of it and she jumps up immediately.

Another factor is teeth op. I never fully understood the pain of teething until ds cut a back molar at 8/9 and despite already starting to play front row, sat sobbing for an evening in a corner of the sofa.

GP to get ears checked and if ears are fine I'd try a dose of calpol an hour before bed-time and see if that achieves a 5 hour block which it may well do if this relates to pain.

www.instagram.com/p/CLWCAiIgK_7/?igshid=189169rzer6t6 I thought this might be useful if it turns out not to be an ear infection- popped up on my Instagram this morning.

Sorry to jump on your thread op but since Christmas we have the same problem! We're at breaking point in our house, some nights we can be up every hour.
Going to sleep isn't a big issue but it's the wake ups, to be fair he goes back quickly but it's constant broken sleep. He's absolutely exhausted, obviously needs a day time nap but if he has one he is still up nearer 9pm.
He's 2.7 years, could last teeth really take months to come through?
I find he often has wax in his ears, I find I'm cleaning them more often than I thought I'd have to, today il call the gp for an ear check.
If anyone has any ideas I'd be so grateful.
Op, you sound like you have so much more patience than me!

@Ginandshinythings you do know nothing bigger than an elbow should be put in a baby's ear?

[quote Cakeandslippers]@alltalknobaby I have thought about this many times over the past year or so but the cost is obviously huge! My husband thinks they'll all just do a variation of controlled crying and so it's not worth the money as we could just look that up ourselves. In your experience did they help with your specific issue or was it just more general cc?[/quote]
It was very tailored and absolutely life saving for us. Not controlled crying or crying it out, not Supernanny, very much a bespoke approach with a lot of support and advice. The company we used did a free 20 consultation to chat through the issue (ended up being almost an hour!) so that at least would be worth a shot.

*20 minute consultation

@Cakeandslippers - how is it going? Did you get his ears checked?

Only thing that changed bedtime for us was dropping DS nap. He was only just over 2. Even a few minutes doze at nursery would send it back to hour plus bouncing around.

Thanks for checking in @RosesAndHellebores I haven't yet but I have an appointment, my GP is on leave for 3 weeks and I like her so I was happy to wait. HV is pretty convinced it's not her ears though and actually I think she might be right as we've had a couple of better nights this week... not many but it's a chink of light at least! Will still get her checked. Last night, despite a long bedtime, she happily stayed in her bed all night!!
We followed some of the advice here sty bedtime and revisited audiobooks, we've been playing Beatrix Potter once books are done and she's in bed and even though we have to stay with her, once she's sleepy the audiobook is so far helping her I think. I've also just given up on naps for now, it was causing too much stress for us all, I take her out in the pram and she'll sometimes have 30 minutes but often nothing. It's all likely to change again but I'm hoping in a positive way... we're not there yet but I feel I have ideas and options now!

I could have written your post when my eldest was that age (and we had a young baby also). For us, we solved it by completely abandoning bedtine and instead, wearing her on our backs in a wrap and then transferring her when she was also. We'd already been doing that for naps though. This clearly wouldn't work for everyone, but what it meant was we were able to reintroduce bed time later, when she felt like she could also more independently, and in the end it was done with barely a tear. After nearly a year of wrapping to sleep, she started to object to it, and we asked her if she'd prefer to go to sleep in her bed by herself, she said yes, and she did. That was when she was nearly 3 though.

So for us it was a long road, but we couldn't continue as we were, and we eventually got there.

Sending support - our 3yo went through this just before Christmas. It eventually just burnt itself out after a month or so of nightly screaming.

Her specialty was suddenly getting upset about something impossible - she’d demand a pair of pyjamas she’d had in the past that had been two small and thrown out, or she’d demand to have had a shower when she’d just happily had a bath. Or asked for her Nana to be there (my mum lives 2 hours away). Then came the sobbing, and screaming, demanding these impossible things, and she’d get so worked up she couldn’t sleep - she saw 10pm on more than one occasion. Her little voice was croaky from the screaming.

At the time she was also reluctant to go to nursery despite being very happy there - it was like she was struggling with the transition of home to nursery, awake to asleep.

For her Christmas was the trigger to stop - the change of routine (decorations up, talk of Christmas, stuff going on at nursery) seemed to distract her mind from whatever had been causing the stress for her (and us!) at bedtimes. Bedtimes have been back to normal and she’s gone back to being totally fine about going to nursery too.

Sounds like you’re on the right path