Cuddling 10 week old when co-sleeping? Pic included

[Crocodilian]

At my wit's end trying to find a way of sleeping while my 10-week-old sleeps. Have been really trying to follow safe sleeping advice but she just won't sleep in a carrycot/next to me, and won't co-sleep lying on her back, but sleeps very soundly when cradled in my arms. Up until now DH and I have been taking it in turns to do four hour shifts staying up with her round the clock with her sleeping on our chests but we're at breaking point.

What is it about cuddling the baby in bed that makes it unsafe? I'm just trying to work out how to reduce risk and whether it's workable as an option. Have attached a picture (random image from Google) of approximately what I did last night: baby's head on my arm, but my arm was cradling her back. I had my bedcovers wrapped round me like a bath towel at my waist so baby definitely couldn't get them over her. Baby had no covers over her and was happy with it. She was nowhere near my pillow. My knees were bent so I couldn't have rolled over her. DH asleep on sofa so couldn't hurt her. What am I not seeing? It's very like what we do when we stay awake with the baby sleeping on us, but just with me lying down and very lightly asleep!

Thanks! Am so desperate to find a way to not be sleeping only when my DH is awake with the baby as we're on our knees here.

Your body sort of locks into place when you breastfeed and co-sleep, plus having your underneath arm stretched out and legs bent mean that it would be quite a difficult manoeuvre to roll in that direction in your sleep! Plus the slightest noise or movement from the baby and you'll wake up. Co sleeping is the norm in Japan and they have very low rates of infant death. The main thing is to make sure you're on a firm mattress with duvets & pillows well out of the way, and make sure they don't overheat as your body will warm them.

I co sleep (5 months) and have done since about day 5. My arm curls round the top of her head and she sleeps on her side facing me. Sometimes she'll roll off onto her back but not always! There are benefits to sleeping this way, your heartbeat and breathing help to regulate theirs and it's much easier for nighttime feeds.

I believe the research shows that how you were sleeping before sat up with her on your chest was probably more dangerous as there is a risk you could drop off on top of her iyswim? If it were me, I would try and make a small change so that she was at least lying flat next to me, rather than cradled. I don’t think you can fully accommodate the safety aspect without trying to change her sleeping position a little bit. It may be that she could respond better to being in her crib if tucked in tightly rather than in baby sleeping bag or you can get co-sleeping cribs. You can also get baby positioners to keep them on their back. Does she have a dummy to protect her airways? Essentially you want to keep her cool and her airways free.

Mine sleeps next to me on her tummy- due to severe reflux she can’t sleep on her back.

My third co-slept (don't want to worry you but he is 7 now and still hasn't spend a whole night in his bed!). I used to put a large pillow between my legs which meant I could t roll over on to him. Then as a pp mentioned, he just used to breast feed as he needed to and I got a full nights sleep, it was awesome!

I did everything 'by the book' for dc1 & 2 and was so sleep deprived, I can't remember most of it!

I tried to post earlier but can't see it - so apologies if duplicating.

I co-slept with all three of mine. But I turned the pillows (just one each) on our kingsize bed from horizontal to vertical and laid them close to the edges of the bed then another 'deep' fitted sheet right over the bed and on top of the pillows. Not as comfortable for the adults as normal pillows, but left a large flat space in the middle of the bed between the pillows for the baby and no risk of pillow going over baby's head. Kept duvet as low down as possible and baby as high up the bed as poss. Non-drinker and not on any medication at the time, so was always on alert to wake up - kept a protective arm between baby and DP because he slept more deeply. I am a natural worrier, but taking all these measures seemed to eliminate most of the risk.

I slept like that but my arm was above her head and she was at boob level: helping herself to milk all night. Also her co-sleeper crib was attached on her other side so she couldn't fall out/might occasionally sleep in it - at 6 months we swapped it for a bed guard. I used to wear thick PJs and had a sheet and cellular blanket rather than a duvet. We started putting her in her own room at the start if the night a 6 months and she slept through the night in her own room at 11 months.

DH was usually in the guest room but otherwise I would between him and the baby so he couldn't roll on her.

I slept in a c shape, no pillow, bedclothes tucked low down under me, ds in a sleeping bag, v pillow as a prop behind me as a slight cushion for my head and hips. Cot with side removed along side the bed in case he fell. He was iugr and fed constantly to catch up. It was the only way he would sleep. My husband was banished to the other side of the bed, behind me. I used to tuck ds in the curve of my arm.

That's how I slept with all of mine from similar ages. My 3 year old still sleeps like that now, as do his big siblings (8 and 10) if they come in for a cuddle.

It's hard isn't it. Well done on doing your best.

Have you heard of an owlet sock? It might help though can't be relied on.

I co sleep - when I can I sneak out of the bed into another. I use an adult size cellular blanket, as it has holes. I worry I might pull it over me accidentally

Do you think your little one could have silent reflux or CMPA?

I hope you both get a good night's sleep.

I co-slept when mine were very little but I wouldn't be happy with my arm under the baby due to it pushing baby's chin towards her chest.

I did it, with arm above baby. I slept between baby snd DH , as he rolled over without thinking, which isn't safe. I never drank alcohol; that is a definite danger, and neither did he. I'm a pretty light sleeper, too.

Hi OP

I understand how exhausted and worn down you are. But I fear you are getting some really bad advice on this thread. I read your post yesterday and didn't reply but it's been on my mind all day, so here goes.

In my opinion, there is a strong majority view on Mumsnet that is pro-cosleeping, and many posters feel really strongly about it and will defend it passionately. I fear that this has clouded their views and, based on my reading of the replies, I think many posters are offering advice and experience that does not take account of the very important information in your post. They are comparing nestling/stretching your arm out on the mattress above the level of the baby's head, with what you are doing - using your arm as a pillow for the baby.

I'm really sorry to say this bluntly but what you are doing is simply not safe. A baby this young, with extremely limited mobility and head control, needs to be laid flat. Propping up the head like this can pose a risk to the airway. This risk is increased by the fact that you are propping up the head on your arm, and you cannot exclude that you will move, twitch, shrug, or adjust your arm in some way while sleeping that may increase the angle of the baby's neck or cause the baby to roll into an unsafe position.

Similarly, your previous method of the baby lying on your chest unfortunately isn't safe either.

No amount of exclusive breastfeeding, anecdotes about the Japanese, or references to cave women will change that. We know that the safest sleep position for a baby is on a flat surface. I am afraid that I would not take any comfort from the experiences of earlier posters.

If I were you, I'd look at a feeding option (pumping or formula) that could mean you could take the nights in turns with your partner or another adult. I'd also try options like slightly elevating the cot mattress in case reflux is the issue, and introducing a soother. You could look up sleep cycles and ensure enough time has passed for your baby to get into a deep sleep before withdrawing your arm. I'd also ask your health visitor or GP for support and other advice.

I feel awful typing this because I know how desperate sleep deprivation is. But allowing you gain false reassurance about a dangerous situation is not going to help. I really feel for you; I do.

I am so desperate :( :( Haven't slept as described in my post since writing my post and I won't ever again thanks to the advice you've collectively given me but Christ everything is so hard. I wish I'd never had her. She deserves so much better than a useless pile of shite like me for a mother.

Everyone who's saying it's not safe for the baby to be sleeping on me, is that because of the risk of me falling asleep or for some other reason? If for some other reason then does that mean generally slings for naps etc are unsafe?

I take an equal share of all nights with my husband staying up with her but obviously we're limited by his work so there aren't enough hours in the day and none of it solves the fact that she very seldom sleeps anywhere but on us. He couldn't possibly be doing any more and we still can't cope between us.

My mental health is through the absolute floor and I don't know what to do. Health visitor knows I'm struggling and I'm waiting for my CBT referral to come in. I'm suffering from crippling insomnia now as well - by some miracle I got her to sleep flat on her back in the bed for two hours this eve and I couldn't switch off at all and just lay there watching what could have been a huge chunk of sleep disappearing. Then she woke crying and would only settle in the unsafe position in my OP and even though I waited until she was in a deep sleep, she woke up and screamed when I put her back on her back.

I don't know why I'm even posting this as I just feel like there's no hope and I just have to magically stay awake for the next 8 months until she's big enough to co-sleep with when cuddling.

Hi OP,

I can’t offer any advice but I just wanted to say please don’t be so hard on yourself. You are doing your very best and you are a good Mum. If you weren’t you wouldn’t be so worried and trying everything to keep your baby happy and healthy.
All I know is this stage isn’t going to go on forever even though it seems like it will.
Take all the help you can get from midwives and HV’s. I really hope the CBT helps.

Do you have any family or friends you could bubble with? They might be able to help give you a couple of hours break so you can sleep.

I slept like that with my baby. But my bed was firm and I used a tight fitted sheet, tucked the duvet under me at waist height, turned the pillow vertically and pushed it as far away from the baby as possible, and made sure there was absolutely no loose fabric. Then I slept with my baby flat on his back at breast height with my arm above his head. I don’t recommend sleeping with your baby propped on your arm, the angle of the neck can make it difficult to breathe and they can’t adjust themselves. They need to be flat on their back.

@WonderousWizzyWeWoveYouSoMuch

Just bumping for you, OP. You're not a useless pile of shite. I co slept with DS. Side cot but he wouldn't sleep in it, so I had him flat in the bed and me curled around him. He is the dearest boy but he was a terribly hard baby. He has trouble with gluten and some other grains so I think that might have been part of the problem. I did go dairy free myself very early on. Could she have silent reflux?

He was pretty good being held, and reasonable at sleeping on me during the day (I couldn't move or he'd wake), but I never once successfully put him down for a nap. He'd just nap on me or in the car (only if the car was moving though I could park up with the engine running for short periods) or if we walked but he'd wake a few minutes after I stopped pushing the pram and only go back to sleep the very odd time. My first baby so I didn't realise it wasn't normal. I was being put under a lot of pressure to bottle feed and I didn't feel that was going to help but I didn't know what would help!

Do you get much wind up after feeds? With DS it was like he was creating gas all day and it built up to cause a lot of pain at night. He'd hardly have any wind during the day and at night would do huge burps and sometimes he'd get some sleep after that. Sometimes he'd fall asleep, wake up after 30-40 minutes and I'd spend an hour trying to get the wind up, massive burp and he'd sleep.

It will get better and you're doing your best.

Can you work out a time table with your DH? How long will she sleep on him? Can you get a few hours sleep by yourself while he has her during some part of the day when he's not in danger of falling asleep?

It's encouraging she did sleep flat for a while today. I know it's terrible you couldn't sleep when she was. I honestly don't think we're meant to be isolated in our homes with tiny babies, we should have people around us who have been through it and will take baby while you sleep.

@Apileofballyhoo Thank you I've wondered if my DD might not tolerate dairy, and cut it out but she still has the periods of random crying as if in pain. She might have silent reflux, she rarely burps when I burp her and sometimes trumps a lot and sometimes cries after a feed, but very often feeds to sleep and stays asleep beautifully after feeding so long as we don't try and put her down, although we're not necessarily holding her upright, so I don't know if that fits.

She usually sleeps really really well so long as one of us is cuddling her so it just feels like she needs holding 24/7. If we could afford a night nanny everything would be perfect.

DD would sleep on DH willingly 24h a day but he works and needs rest so he can work. He takes her for at least 4 hours every 24hs so I can sleep but even though I'm only getting this tiny amount of sleep it's regularly taking me an hour to drop off and I'm permanently exhausted. He's only getting 4-6h sleep a night himself and works an intellectually complicated job that requires him to concentrate so he's struggling and stressed too.

I've never been a very sociable peson but the lack of human contact and support, particularly from people who have had babies, feels so painful.

agree with Sycamore above.
sorry you are feeling so low, OP.
what happens if you put her to sleep in side-cot attached to your bed, with you hand stretched out, touching her.
her on her back, of course, and you on your side facing her, and v close. she may cry for a while, but do try it again.
all the best.

but a night nanny would not cuddle her all night, would she.
so think about that. there must be a safe way through this time.

Thanks @alexdgr8 - what happens (and I've tried it lots) is that she cries harder and harder until I pick her up. It's possible if I left her for a very long time she'd cry herself to sleep but obviously that doesn't seem like a great option.

If I knew a safe way through this time I would be using it. I'm absolutely losing my mind here.

i think you have to try it again. try to soothe her without lifting her up, keep her in side-cot.
i know it's difficult, but it is in part conditioning.

give your GP a call in the morning.