My children have never slept and it’s tearing us apart. Please help.

[2020in2020]

Another night of tears and shouting. We have 2 DD’s aged 7 and 4 - yes, that’s 7 and 4 years old. Neither has ever reliably slept through the night and it has now got to the point where I start to physically shake at the onset of bedtime routine as it causes so much anxiety.

We have tried everything. They co-slept at birth, in cot at 6 months. Controlled crying, gradual retreat, gro-clock, god knows how many night lights, reward charts, bribery, punishment, moving them in together, moving them back apart, redecorating bedrooms, new beds... literally everything.

They both struggle to fall asleep. The 4 year old has to have someone with her but she can take up to an hour to fall asleep, and always wakes in the night and either comes to us or I go to her bed.

The 7 year old can read herself to sleep and has slept through occasionally but it never lasts and recently she’s started claiming she can’t fall asleep.

It’s making all 4 of us absolutely miserable. I can’t seem to find anything UK based about older children not sleeping and sleep training has not worked. Believe me I have tried. We absolutely can not afford a private sleep consultant and I’m not convinced it would work. Does anyone know if I went to the GP they could give me anything? I spend most nights in tears and as I write this my husband is crying with my 7 year old as they had a huge argument as we actually came to bed early and she woke us up. I honestly can’t cope with this anymore.

[StinkySaurus]

Hope things are going better OP.

To all the posters suggesting OP goes to the GP, I went to the GP about sleep issues When my one was two and was told just to shut the door and walk away. Completely unhelpful and dismissive. Do people actually have a positive example of talking to the GP about sleep?

[Harrysmummy246]

@2020in2020

Sorry lots more replies as I was typing!

I would be happy if they stayed in their rooms quietly, but I worry about them getting enough sleep. We do get out and about walking the dog most days and they both do a physical activity once a week.

Thank you for all your messages.

I do think my DH could help more, he rarely puts them to bed and when he does he just tries to fob it off and tells them to go to sleep and immediately comes downstairs. I get that he might be trying to change it but he KNOWS they won’t and I always end up just going up to deal eith it. Christmas Day was ruined as this happened at my mums house. I said I wanted just one night where I didn’t have to do bedtime, he said he would but he just put them in bed then came straight back down. Obviously they cried so I had to sort it out and I just stayed with them until 10pm by which time I was done with the evening. And when I try a new technique he doesn’t get involved. We have had marriage problems last year and this was something I brought up, he promised to help but he doesn’t really. I do feel for him as he gets stressed out by this too.

So it's a DH problem as well.

DS is 3y6mo now- We started alternating nights for bedtime some time last year and after a few when I had to just go out so I couldn't hear anything and so DS knew it really meant daddy was doing bedtime, that element has improved hugely.

He can still take time to fall asleep but we have a routine of bath, story, he 'reads' to himself then tuck in, Moshi story on and blow kisses with 'night night sleep well, see you in the morning'. For DH, it's always been this way- he was pretty much told to leave DS alone the first time he did bedtime. For me, I've been gradually retreating from cuddling in bed to holding hands in a chair to now I generally snuggle while we read then do the night night routine.

The bedtime parent then watches over the monitor from our room, occasionally going to rescue a teddy (never occurs to DS to get out of bed?!?!) or take him for a wee. It's getting to the point we could actually, probably, come downstairs and leave him to it so we take a little longer to respond to the daft prevarication, or once we can see he's stopped messing about and is drifting towards sleep (so once the headstands etc stop)

It is hard but it is unfair for it all to be on you

[Harrysmummy246]

And yes, I have had to gradually stop myself just climbing in with him when he's woken in the night. If he needs us now, we go back to 'blow kiss....' and he snuggles back down.

Moshi only goes on when mummy and daddy are going out of the room etc.

But it's all been gradual.

[persistentwoman]

That's great news OP. Well done to you both.
If I might - remember, consistency is the key. The same (boring) message and ignoring all attempts to distract you both from your aim. Children do it all the time - they learn very early on that if parent wants them to do something, a quick diversionary tactic gets the parent away from the original request following wherever the child leads.
So stick to your guns - be deeply boring in response to any tactics - repeat and return to bed, ignoring all whataboutery. You know from last night that all the chaos and drama is learned behaviour. You are now helping them unlearn that and adopt behaviour that is better for both their health and wellbeing - as well as yours.
Good luck tonight.