Last straw for toddler sleep he just bit me

[User24689]

Just end the end of my rope now. 2.5 year old has never slept. It gets better for short periods and I consider him finally sleeping through then slips back again. We've had periods of cosleeping in our bed, periods of me falling asleep in my bed.... Aside from the bedtime routine which hasn't changed since he was a baby, consistency hasn't been great because I am so fucking tired I do whatever works at the current time, until I'm more rested, then get really firm and get him out of habits, then he slips into a different habit and before I know it I've made a different rod for my own back. Never done any sleep training as felt it would be so distressing for him as he is so, so attached to me.

I'm absolutely fed up with it. For the past few weeks he has slept through with maybe one wake up but then woken at 5. I then get into his bed and he does another hour cuddled into my neck. During that time I have to sleep with him constantly pulling my hair. He has done this his whole life and I have been really firm about stopping it but I am so tired and so used to it I can actually sleep while he does it so during my most tired times I drift in and out of sleep while having my hair pulled.

This morning, at 5.30, I was deep asleep and woke up because he bit me, hard, on the nose. I know this sounds ridiculous but it was honestly terrifying and made me cry. I didn't know what was happening. It was only momentary and then he was grinning at me and I was so shocked I asked him if he just bit me and he said yes. I told him how upset I was and how much he hurt me and that he must never, ever do that again. Then I left the room and he started screaming.

I feel utterly shit this morning. I feel like I have poured everything into getting this boy to sleep for the past two years while DH is totally unaffected (he won't accept DH in the night) only to be treated like that. I know he's only two. Am I overreacting? Where would you go from here?

How do I get him to fucking sleep on his own.

I would start by putting him in with your DH, shutting the door and leaving him to scream.

Have you tried a sleep consultant? My ds is nearly 3 and his sleep has gone up and down since he was born. Like you he's had periods sleeping with me, me sitting on his bedroom floor for hours etc. I know how frustrating it is. Everyone talks about the sleep deprivation with a newborn but you don't expect it to last for years :(

I never sleep trained as I find it cruel. If he gets up at night time I still sit with him now, but I sit myself further and further away until I'm outside the door and he can't see me anymore. I then tell him I'm just outside if he needs me and he seems happy enough with that (and then I go back to my own bed). I no longer have him in bed with me as he used to fidget and kick and I had no sleep. If he wakes in the night upset and asks to come in, I now sit next to his bed after a cuddle and wait for him to fall back asleep. It seems to be working although he's now started getting up for the day at around 5am which is another issue!!

I hope someone comes along with better advise. I could use some myself!!

Honestly: I would go away for a week and get your husband to sleep train (controlled crying). It will be brutal doing it at this age but what you have been doing clearly isn't working..

Then you need to sleep train him! You both need to sleep train him, which means he learns that Mummy wont appear the minute he starts playing up!
It will be tough, but you have admitted that you have no choice!

Thank you all. I need to hear this!

I have gone away twice. Once when he was 18 months, for 4 nights. That stopped his hourly waking.

In February, I went away for a week. He slept through the night. I returned and he stopped.

It's me thats the problem.

He is extremely stubborn. He can throw almighty tantrums. I could let him scream all night yes, but firstly what damage could that do in terms of the rest of his behaviour/ wellbeing and secondly how is my 4 year old meant to handle that?

Your lack of back bone it the problem. He's 2.

Sleep train him now while there's no school for 4yo. Sometimes as parents you have to be cruel to be kind.

Sleep training is a catch all term for lots of different things. @kittykat above says she's never sleep trained then goes on to describe gradual retreat. However at 2.5 you're going to be really up against the stubborn and personally I don't think gentle techniques will work. Your choices in my opinion are more of the cold turkey variety. The list I can think of are, send your dh to deal with him. Keep gently returning your ds to bed. I've seen a couple of TV nanny's shut them in with stair gates. Or you go down the reward approach. I think personally it depends on your ds personality but try sending your dh in. Whatever you do you need to stick to your guns at least 2wks.

I think at two and a half, he's going to be very cross if you sleep train him, but it's not going to do him any damage. At this point, your own sanity is more important than his wish ( not need) to have you close at night. I suspect that you getting a decent night's sleep would also be great for him as you will be able to function better during the day and you will resent him less. I would strongly recommend that you bite the bullet and sleep train. When he ups the ante, as he will, you need to remind yourself that he's just cross but he will be fine.

I would sleep train.

You need a backbone. Sorry.

I suspect 2.5 is a bit young for this but just in case you want to try this. If you think the not sleeping is a psychological thing then you could try something called bedtime tokens / bedtime passes. Start with a family meeting, draw up some sleep rules, get your child to suggest and draw them to give them some ownership. Then make loads of tokens together. I mean loads. If the child gets up or calls you in then that's absolutely fine and allowed, but costs 1 token. If there are tokens left in the morning, the child gets a reward. We used playmobil, I bought a camping set and split it all up, put the names of all the bits in a pot and Dd got a new piece at random every morning she had tokens left. For first few nights the child needs to succeed so you need more tokens than they will use, so you're setting them up to succeed. Put them in a pot by their bed. My Dd used more than 30 the first night. When they're in the swing of it, start to gradually reduce the number of tokens. It took us a few weeks to get down to 6. Dd started to fail a few times and had to try. We got stuck at this level a while. Eventually we got down to 3 and at some point the system was gradually forgotten. 30+ down to 1 or 2 was a lot bloody better.

I would also go cold turkey and sleep train by sending Dh in to him. He will do everything in his power to resist but you’ve just got to bite the bullet. It’s the summer holidays now so your 4 year old will be fine with a few nights broken sleep if they are even disturbed by it.

Just spoken to DH and he's said basically the same, that ice got no backbone and it's all my doing. That he doesn't help in the morning because I dictated how it works at night and he's resentful. I do everything for them. Just feel like a shit mum and wife and I wasn't strong enough to have had them but now I have to deal with the consequences or theyre going to grow into awful people

You say he sleeps through now but wakes at 5am? It really isn’t unusual for kids to wake early, some just do. If he has 10 hours sleep, that might be enough for him. Maybe try going to bed earlier yourself so you are ready to get up when he does. It’s shit OP but part of having kids unfortunately!
As for the biting, hopefully you made your point that was not acceptable!

I could have written this.

I have no advice.

I've tried sleep training (silent return for nearly a month and not once did it take less than 75 returns, the number didn't go down at all, it just became the new routine).

Mine doesn't pull hair, he scratches my face. I tell him to stop and move his hand every single time. He is back trying to do it within seconds. And I stop him again. Every time.

I'm now considering a large baby gate and physically locking him in his room. I haven't had a full night of unbroken sleep for 2.5 years.

@sandysmam I spent a year getting up at 4.30 i know it is part of having kids.

Currently he wakes once, at around one, I resettle him and then he wakes again at 5. He isn't ready to get up. He is sleepy and wants to hold me to get back to sleep for another hour or so.

I could fight back against this by making him get up when he wakes up at 5. He would be miserable. I take any extra sleep I can get.

100% get a sleep consultant so you have someone to support you. I did this and it was a lifesaver. There are different techniques you can use but they will guide you and you can speak to them whenever you are feeling like you want to give in.

I think your confidence is shattered and you need to rebuild yourself. You know this already but of course you aren't a shit mum, everything you have done is to try and be a lovely mum. But now the best thing to do is to teach your son to have a restful night. Have a heart to heart with DH and get back on the same side.

Good luck

It sounds like you and your dh disagree on parenting strategies across the board. You need a serious sit down and chat about your boundaries going forward. You have to be a united front with your children otherwise they will pick up on it and play you off against each other.

From this thread you sound like the one who doesn't want to put boundaries in place. In the long run this isn't helpful for your children. You don't want out of control teenagers believe me!

You’re not a shit mum and wife. Was your 4yo a reasonable sleeper? My firstborn slept really well and when we later had a terrible sleeper, I was unprepared and just thought that eventually it would resolve itself. And I clung to that belief for a long time.

Tell your DH that you didn’t realise he was feeling so excluded (don’t apologise though - he’s an adult and he could have brow aches this with you) and agree with him that it’s time to sort it and make a plan together. Preferably one that involves him doing bed time and all the wake ups.

You matter and you need/deserve some physical boundaries. You need some sleep. The hair pulling would drive me nuts and the nose bite would really have distressed me. It probably will be a bit of a disruption to your 4yo for a short time, but the end pay off will be worth it for the whole family. Good luck!

OP He’s very securely attached to you, so I wouldn’t worry about damaging that. He will, however, be very cross and it will get worse before it gets better.

Is your DH up for a week of very broken nights? And are you up for staying in your room with headphones on, no matter what? I think you know that’s know thats now - but are you both prepared to do it.

OP I don't think it's your fault at all, some kids are crap sleepers and you've got to do what you need to do to get by. Solidarity from me. My 5.5yo doesn't sleep through more than a couple of nights in a row, she was up twice last night and up for the day at 5:50. I've just had a serious word with her that she's old enough to understand she can just turn over and go back to sleep without calling me. So, I think you're dh is being a bit of a dick there. However, I do also think you need to draw a line under everything until now and have a real go at improving things. Try to strike a line firm but fair. Your ds will be better for more sleep and so will you.

• broached, not brow ached.

Know that’s the solution (sorry, weird auto correct)

I think people are being a bit harsh, I'm sure you're trying to do what's best for your son, and the fact you are so sleep deprived means your decision making is probably a bit muddled.

I also think you need to come to terms with the feeling that by leaving him to self settle you are not abandoning him, you are helping him. He needs uninterrupted sleep too and you will be doing him a kindness by helping him learn to sleep without you. You will be able to be an even better mum if you are properly rested and operating at full strength.

You're a good mum so don't beat yourself up about that. Just find a sleep training programme, there are loads out there, and stick to it. It will work and it won't take long. This time in a month you'll all be sleeping normally and things will seem so much better.

I've also worked with a sleep consultant and although I didn't learn anything I couldn't have read, dh found the support invaluable in getting us on the same page and seeing it through. We spent £250 and she worked with us twice, filled out a big form of info, had a Skype call, she drew up a plan and talked us through it, then lots of support via Internet and a couple of extra calls too.

My ds was like this but without the hair pulling etc. He ofter got up in the night and came in to us and always was up at 5 am - albeit happy and ready to start the day !
At 2.5 we started with a gro clock , it took a while but it did work.
However I think with your ds it is an attachment issue ,as others have said , dh needs to get involved and then after that maybe introduce a glo clock / reward chart ?