Update: Difficult bedtimes with a 5 year old.... tonight I tried this!

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I started a thread a few days ago about being at my wits end with difficult bed times and night waking in my 5 yr old DD.

Tonight I did the same basic bedtime routine we’ve always done (supper, bath, story, cuddle, bed). The “bed” bit has been the difficult bit for about 2 years now and getting gradually worse. We resorted to lying next to her but this still takes a good hour with her constantly messing about. I’m pregnant and so so tired with lack of sleep that I now have quite a short fuse. Bedtimes make us miserable!

Working on the logic that she needs to learn how to self soothe alone in her room at bedtime before we can even contemplate tackling the night wakings I thought I’d try this:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/sleep-problems-in-children/

Scroll down to the bit about older child not wanting to fall asleep on their own. I think it’s for under 5’s really but there doesn’t seem to be anything for over.

So I warned her early in the day that I had lots of ironing to do and I would do that in my room while she falls asleep in her room (bedroom next door). I angled the ironing board so she could see my hands in my mirrored wardrobe.

I followed the “go back and kiss” at regular intervals. Initially just a few seconds in between, then gradually increasing minutes. I made it feel random and natural, like I was ‘just passing’ her room and popped in and gave her a kiss and said “I’ll be back in a minute”. Initially she didn’t want me to leave at all and there was a mini tantrum and (pretend) tears. Then she was talking a lot and I had to remove a load of toys that were scaring her (one of those things was a pair of headphones!!!).

Eventually she settled down and went to sleep!

It took 1 hour in total. So the same as me lying next to her, but at least she fell asleep more independently than she has for about 6 months and I got lots of ironing done.

I’m hoping tomorrow it won’t take as long, but I plan to go in and kiss just as regularly and then gradually wean it down.

I feel like it was a success because I didn’t lose my cool at all. I told her I loved her about 15 times and I said quite a few times “don’t worry, I’m still around, I won’t let anything bad happen to you.” it genuinely seemed to comfort her.

I’m off to sleep to get ready for being awake later, but wanted to share to spread the idea really!

Ok I’m sticking with it. She is just messing around in bed now. Whispering to herself. Nightie has been taken off. I’m just popping in at about 5 min intervals now.

My house will be immaculate at this rate!!

Hoping she settles soon OP, it can take 3 weeks for a new routine to be formed so keep going!

I read and read initially daughter's books, then when the eyes went out I read my book aloud till I was sure she was asleep, then carried on reading as I exited the bedroom....it worked.

God reading this fills me with dread. My LG is crap at bedtime and has been since birth! She is 21 months old now we had a brief period between 16-19 months of her being perfect at going down but oh how that's changed again! I was hoping she had grown out of it but I have an awful feeling she will just be like this for years like your LG is!
I wish I knew why she resisted it so much!

Have you tried anything like a sticker chart with your LG? Tell her if she goes to sleep with no issue each night that she gets a sticker and if she gets three stickers she gets a treat?

She’s still awake, mucking around in her bed.

I keep reminding myself I can’t force her to sleep, my only job is to put her to bed.

And not throttle her.

My LG was amazing until she was 3. Then it all just changed. 2 years on and she’s easier to reason with in many ways. She’s really bright too. But that can work against us. She tries to control EVERYTHING and gets frustrated when she can’t. My only advice is that you devise a system you can tolerate sticking with long term and start it now! Kind of some basic bedtime rules that you never change. Our mistake was changing things every few months and giving into her commands because we were just too tired to do anything else.

Most of the principles of “how to talk so little kids will listen” work brilliantly with her and her behaviour in the day is lovely.

We did a bedtime sticker chart for about 3 months, whereby she got a sticker every night for: Bath, brushing teeth, story, choosing a cuddly toy, getting into bed, staying in bed without calling out, falling asleep alone and staying in bed all night.

She got stickers for everything bar the last 4 every night. So she never got the reward and she honestly didn’t care. Husband wanted to introduce ‘withholding nice things’ for not getting all stickers but there isn’t a lot she cares about being taken away (I have a long story about this that proves my point). And anyway, I just didn’t want the focus of the chart to be negative you know? Just feels a bit extreme. In the end we stopped using the chart as it wasn’t motivating her.

We had a grow clock too, but she learned to unlock it (she must be some kind of genius because it took me ages to work out each night!!) and she could adjust it so the sun would come up. We put it high up on a shelf she couldn’t reach and she simply unplugged it at the wall.

My husband starts work at 5 every day and is up at 4. He goes to bed at 8 by which time he is exhausted. Bed times are shared between us but he often resorts to sitting in her room or lying next to her because he doesn’t have the energy battle out a ‘system’. And since I fell pregnant in November I’ve been lying next to her every night because I had terrible nausea in the evenings.

But lying in bed with her for sometimes up to 2 hours is ridiculous isn’t it?! And with a baby arriving in July, we just need to get this sorted.

I think..... she’s asleep!

I told her I had to read something for work. I turned my bedroom light off and put my lamp on and started writing this post. In that time she has fallen asleep!!!! Yay!!!

Great! You stuck to your guns and it worked. Fingers crossed for a settled night

It was good! She woke up at 6 in her own bed!!!

Yippie!!!!

My turn tonight so hopefully it will go well and she’ll be asleep slightly earlier.

Great news!

I had to do this with my daughter. My cousin recommended the approach. The things I told DD I had to do so as to make it sound like I was doing boring stuff she couldn't help with included: wiping the fridge door, cleaning the bin, cleaning the bathroom (I did actually do this one) sorting books, going to the toilet (she questioned why I needed to go so much), folding sheets and towels, organise the shoes and plump up cushions on the sofa.

She was a nightmare at going to sleep on her own and DH was sceptical at first (whilst still complaining about how difficult it was to get her to go to sleep on her own) so I took over bedtime for a while. Initially it meant every night I was in and out of her room at ever increasing intervals but I think it was within 10 days or a fortnight we had the routine sorted and then DH saw it worked and we reverted back to alternate nights. He used to tell her he was cleaning the car boot .

Anyway. Sounds like you've hit on something she can understand and will work. Well done!

@Huntlybyelection so good to hear a success story (with both your DD AND your DH!!). Loving the excuses for popping downstairs!!! I’ll definitely be cleaning the bin at some point!! Lol. Tonight it’s cleaning the toilet and maybe sorting out my bank statements!!

I can’t help myself. Need to update..., bedtime tonight has generally been much smoother. A few mini battles but not like last night. She’s currently in bed and I’m going in and out whilst ‘tidying’ upstairs.

Hope this doesn’t take too long!

Well done 👍

She’s talking incessantly!!! I can’t wait to have the opportunity to close my eyes in a silent dark room. I’m genuinely struggling to stay awake. So why on earth is it so fun and exciting to stay awake?!!

That sounds like great progress. I also give my son milk and a banana every night before bed.

My only suggestion would be not to say “don’t worry, I won’t let anything bad happen”. To me that sounds like you’re saying there is a possibility of bad things happening but you’ll stop them. Since there isn’t actually anything bad that could happen I would just avoid mentioning bad things. It will only put ideas in her head about what all of those possible bad things might be (monsters under the bed, burglars at the window etc etc).

Don't respond, or if you need to say in a monotone "go to sleep DD". She's trying to draw you into conversation. Be present but completely minimise your interactions, that means no eye contact and minimal responses.

When it's dads turn do it, do it together. Show him that it works and how to do it

The talking has stopped now. She thinks I’m reading on my bed (obviously I’m not, I’m just browsing the internet on my phone!!) O e told her I’ll pop in between chapters but if I hear talking I’ll leave it another chapter. It seems to have worked.

I just really want to go to bed!!!

Thank you for the last lot of advice @LadyEggs @FraglesRock @user1480880826

It’s so good to finally have some strategies.

I’d genuinely thought I’d left it too late and was destined to wear the rod I’d made for myself forever more!!

I think she’s asleep!! About 20 mins earlier than last night.

A bedtime with no shouting, crying or tantrums!!!!

HURRAH!!!

!

I would but I’m pregnant! But got some orange presse stuff in a gin glass.... lol

Well done! It’s so hard to change entrenched patterns, but you can do it! 🍾👏

Whoops. Forgot about that, sorry. I can have one on your behalf, if you like?

I'm so impressed - well done op!
I was going to suggest music or a talking book.
My 11yr old still has music going to sleep.
Steven fry has a very calming voice

So fantastic to read. DS1 was an awesome sleeper right from birth. Then he got to about 6 and bedtime nonsense started. Constantly coming downstairs with one excuse after another.

He's now 8. We've worn him down by consistently sending him back to bed but he was struggling again tonight. However this time he apologised and said 'I'm sorry I keep coming down, I'm just really struggling to fall asleep, could I please borrow your Fitbit to do the breathing'. I set it for five minutes and that was half an hour ago, so it's obviously taken his mind off it.

Sounds like your routine is progressing well!