Update: Difficult bedtimes with a 5 year old.... tonight I tried this!

[peanutfoldover]

I started a thread a few days ago about being at my wits end with difficult bed times and night waking in my 5 yr old DD.

Tonight I did the same basic bedtime routine we’ve always done (supper, bath, story, cuddle, bed). The “bed” bit has been the difficult bit for about 2 years now and getting gradually worse. We resorted to lying next to her but this still takes a good hour with her constantly messing about. I’m pregnant and so so tired with lack of sleep that I now have quite a short fuse. Bedtimes make us miserable!

Working on the logic that she needs to learn how to self soothe alone in her room at bedtime before we can even contemplate tackling the night wakings I thought I’d try this:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/sleep-problems-in-children/

Scroll down to the bit about older child not wanting to fall asleep on their own. I think it’s for under 5’s really but there doesn’t seem to be anything for over.

So I warned her early in the day that I had lots of ironing to do and I would do that in my room while she falls asleep in her room (bedroom next door). I angled the ironing board so she could see my hands in my mirrored wardrobe.

I followed the “go back and kiss” at regular intervals. Initially just a few seconds in between, then gradually increasing minutes. I made it feel random and natural, like I was ‘just passing’ her room and popped in and gave her a kiss and said “I’ll be back in a minute”. Initially she didn’t want me to leave at all and there was a mini tantrum and (pretend) tears. Then she was talking a lot and I had to remove a load of toys that were scaring her (one of those things was a pair of headphones!!!).

Eventually she settled down and went to sleep!

It took 1 hour in total. So the same as me lying next to her, but at least she fell asleep more independently than she has for about 6 months and I got lots of ironing done.

I’m hoping tomorrow it won’t take as long, but I plan to go in and kiss just as regularly and then gradually wean it down.

I feel like it was a success because I didn’t lose my cool at all. I told her I loved her about 15 times and I said quite a few times “don’t worry, I’m still around, I won’t let anything bad happen to you.” it genuinely seemed to comfort her.

I’m off to sleep to get ready for being awake later, but wanted to share to spread the idea really!

I used to do that, but would clean the bathroom. My kids could hear me and the bathroom light was on, obviously, so they felt I was still near to them.

Oh and I have her a banana and milk for supper. Apparently both good for stimulating melatonin.

The HV suggested something similar to me years ago, putting washing away so you're in and out. It doesn't work with my two, they have tantrums because they want to help (aka stay up later). Ironing is a better one because they can't do that!

Fingers crossed it continues to work.

@HollowTalk yes I think that’s my plan of action, to move out of my room and do other little jobs upstairs, a bit further away each time until eventually going downstairs. After all when the baby arrives I won’t be able to completely dote on her. Tonight it felt so much better spending that hour getting stuff done rather than lying next to her gradually become more frustrated! Feels like this is going to work.

I mean, it does mean doing housework when I’m at my most tired each day but as long as I’m making a bit of noise and popping into her room she won’t know.

@trilbydoll @Drum2018

Fingers crossed. My DD was an amazing sleeper and went to bed with no argument at all until she was 3. Then it all changed and the last few years have been really difficult. I’ve tried everything, but never the regular popping in and out.

Ill let you know how it goes!

Following in case this can help with my 2.5 year old horror- an hour and a half tonight and she’s still not asleep - at our wits end and exhausted and that’s before the numerous night wakings begin each night. Good luck you guys!

You can change it to, "Oh I'm just running downstairs to put some clothes into the washing machine" - NEVER make it sound like you're having fun! Be specific boring if necessary. Then go down for 30 seconds and come back. A few minutes later go down for something else and stay twice as long. Repeat until you can watch a film downstairs while she waits for you to come back and goes to sleep in the process.

I need to start doing this with my 7 year old. He was fine until the beginning of Dec when the bloofy elf turned up and nights became very scary. He's at an age where we're telling him monsters aren't real, but Santa is and it's very confusing.

I've tried edging out of the room which hasn't worked but this is the next idea.

God I wish that worked for my DS. He's nearly 6 and we live in a flat so he knows we're in the room right next to him but will he sleep by himself? Will he bollocks...

He's at an age where we're telling him monsters aren't real, but Santa is and it's very confusing.

Have you tried buying into the idea of the monsters and providing him with something that will protect him/stop them coming into his room? Like a special toy or something?

I might try this with dd2 who's also 5. It was 10pm by the time she finally went to sleep tonight. I was trying the reading kindle in her room but not in bed with her the last 2 nights but it doesn't seem to be working....

Well..... she stayed in bed all night!!! I’ve woken super early anyway because I’ve had a whole night of uninterrupted sleep. It’s probably just coincidence but I’m SO SO happy!!!!

I had a weird dream about only wearing one shoe to a wedding.

@HollowTalk thank you. I’ll definitely use that technique for going downstairs.

Hope this can work for other ‘older’ children and selfishly it’s quite good to hear there are some other 5/6/7 year olds who are playing up.

I literally went back seconds later initially. She actually loved it. She tried to control it a bit (as with everything) and dictate when I came back but I somehow wriggles out of it.

Either way, a FULL NIGHT OF SLEEP!!!! I feel like a new woman!!!

Well done OP, sounds like process. I haven't slept 😭 Five year old came in, one year old woke up at 3, when I think I'd nodded off at 1:30 and now the one year old is still awake. And so is the five year old. I will need copious amounts of caffeine to survive.

@junobug re a pp suggesting you buy-in to monsters and give your DC 'protection': if you don't want to row back on "there are no monsters", you could give them a guardian toy "even though there are no monsters but if there were, this toy would do the protecting."

I have hazy memories of doing this with our oldest, and it working. He is quite logical, so this matter of fact approach suited him. (TG we didn't have the elf on the shelf.)

Amazing OP. Good luck for tonight!

Junobug you could try 'Monster Spray'. Decorate an empty spray bottle with a label (literally paper, felt tips and sellotape), fill it with water (add colour/scent if you like) and spray liberally around the room at bedtime.

OP congratulations on breaking the habit! Now, whatever you do, don't go backwards. Your DD is learning to self settle which is what it is all about!

@LadyEggs I’m NEVER giving in again. With a baby arriving in July I’m on a mission to get this sorted in the next 6 months.

My daughter ended up coming in my bed at around 5.45. She went straight to sleep though till 8am. Mad rush to get ready for school! So I guess that’s technically a night waking. But my focus at the moment is the bedtime routine so I’m still winning on that front.

It’s DH’s turn to put her to bed at night (we take it in turns just because it’s such a nightmare). He’s a bit about my new system. Should I make him do it and risk him getting it wrong? Or do it myself until it’s more established?

I think you both need to be really on board with it for consistency, so if he's not quite there and is likely to go back to the old method then you'd better do it for a week or two and get him to watch so that he sees how you do it. Also, with the waking in the night we talk about the robot parent - take your child back to bed and only say "back to bed DD" in a monotone. Don't engage in any conversation, cuddles etc. As low key as you can be to discourage it.

Sounds like you are doing great!

Ok, he has agreed to do it. I’ll be on hand to hand over should he lose patience with it.

@LadyEggs Would you recommend tackling the night wakings now? Or leave it a few weeks to get her used to this new bedtime?

I’d do it now before it becomes a habit. It might be a few nights of pain but for long term gain (hopefully!)

She’s been doing it for 2 years so already a habit!

Daddy’s bedtime already going badly. She’s being very defiant, refusing to do anything that he asks. He is not a push over by any means but she can be very very stubborn. He is starting to lose his cool.

However he gave her CRUNCHY NUT CORNFLAKES for supper (facepalm) so she is probably on a sugar high.

So I think it’s likely I will take over.

His conclusion will be that my new system doesn’t work.

Sometimes I feel like I’m battling BOTH of them at bedtime. And I feel almost certain that these stressful bedtimes result in her being more likely to wake in the night and come into my bed for comfort.

I know nobody wants a running commentary but I feel like I need an outlet. I basically had to start again, reset the whole bedtime. Gave banana and warm milk. Re-brushed teeth. Tucked up in bed. Started the kissing thing. She’s not really playing ball tonight.

Very frustrating!

Don't give up!! It could be anything - not as settled, not as tired, not in the same mood - keep going though, it really will be worth it. My dd was rubbish at self soothing but I used to say goodnight to her then go off to do little things and always came back when I said. My mini celebration was when I'd worked up to having a cup of tea 😂