Sleep is for the weak part four, we're officially hardcore.

[gingerninja]

Yes ladies we've got a shiny new thread to share our woes of chronic sleep deprivation, to hail all that is gloreous when something works and throw our arms in the air when it all goes wrong again.

One bad night doesn't impress us, we're awake more than we sleep cos we is 'ard I tell ya.

don t think he would sleep
sorry to keep moaning

hello everyone!

i was always too optimistic to do the wakiing up thing, as I always think 'maybe this will be the night he sleeps and i don't want to miss it!' Yes I'm delusional.

But guess what... last night was THE night. Asleep at 8pm, I gave him dream feed at 10 because he didn't seem to eat much before bed. Nothing until a feed at 5.15am!!! Well, I did hear a murmur at 3am, but was only a couple of minutes and back asleep. Does that count???

cupcake, this is a great place to do some moaning. sorry your night was so horrid.

cupcake - moan away!

Morning Tam - ok night!

Amber [sound of cheering]
Well done Amber and DS!

Sorry tam - meant ok night ?

should do something constructive
but im not in the mood for playdough etc

Amber hooray!!! Are you feeding to sleep still?

DS had a nice settled evening, fed at 10.30 then 1ish but was then wide awake in cot, DH had headache so for an easy life we brought him into bed then (wouldn't normally do it til after 4/5), after that he woke at 4 and 6 then up for the day at 7.30. So not great but not awful either as it's easier to deal with him when co-sleeping.

Tapster, my DS slept fine up til 3 months too. Wonder why it goes so wrong then? Still, hopefully means he will go back to it... hope it doesn't take til 8 months though!

And Cupcake sorry for your tough nights. I was kind of hoping that sleep problems go away when you can tell LO to stay in bed and they understand you, but obviously that isn't always the case

no fraid not he has an answer for everything

Hi Bags. Well, with the waking thing it's sometimes a bit tricky to get the right level of waking, as it's a question of finding the balance - it's about gently stirring him so that he turns over but remains asleep, rather than (as I have on occasion) waking him up completely and then getting him back. On the one night where it worked, he slept seamlessly for 7 hours - just that it was at the beginning of his night, which meant that after I went to bed he woke again at 3, 5 and 7. Gaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!! All that lovely continuous sleep and I got none of it! I'm hoping that if I keep doing this for a few days he'll break his bad pattern and get into a new habit of sleeping seamlessly.

Am also intrigued to learn from Tapster that if they've slept well on their own in the early months, they'll get back to it again. This is what I've been hoping for! Apparently their body clock settles into 24 hour time at around 40 weeks (about 9-10 months) - funnily enough lots of my friends who've tried everything under the sun discovered that at this age their babies' sleep settled. So there is hope yet! Also makes me wonder what exactly is the point in any kind of sleep training, whether you use the gentle stuff or controlled crying.

On another positive note my DS is now able to fall asleep without being fed to sleep - when we put him in bed awake (or slightly sleepy) he now needs very little comforting to get off to sleep. So to all you mums out there who are wondering what you'll do when you stop BFing, there is hope.

Hi Mrs TH. Sorry to hear you are having problems. How old is your LO? And when did you stop feeding to sleep?

Meg, yes am generally feeding to sleep at the moment. I went through a period of trying not to do that. But now I'm back feeding to sleep because LO is so active, he will only take a decent feed if he's half asleep at the time! he does know how to settle himself though because if he doesn't fall asleep at the breast I just leave him in the cot and he'll generally go to sleep once he gets bored of holding his feet/cooing/rolling/making high pitched squeals/fighting the cuski, etc.

amber forgot to say earlier for your ds and 1st through the night. you must be so pleased

thanks tamdin,

MrsTH, I find the 2 hourly wake up calls so hard. I remember when three hour intervals seemed like luxury! I find by the time you settle them, get back to bed, get to sleep, its nearly time to get up for the next waking. hope it improves soon. yay for self settling routine though.

Does anyone know when LOs normally drop the late-afternoon nap? DS has just totally refused to have his (woke up from the last one at 2.45). And the last few days have been a nightmare to settle him for naps - up til now he's been having 4 x 30-min naps every day (typically around 10, 12, 2 and 4) after 1.5hrs awake. But there has been up to 30 mins of screaming for the last few days... and complete resistance this afternoon!

So should I try putting him down more spaced put during the day...?

maybe 11am and 2pm would work
depends on how early a day you have
my little monster ended up with an late morning one and didn't ever have a afternoon sleep after the age of one.
that was a hard sleep to drop

He wakes between 7 and 8 most days, so don't think he could make it til 11. Perhaps I will try leaving 2 hours between naps, ie 9.30is, 12ish, 2.30ish and move bedtime forward a bit...

(should have said, cupcake, he is 4.5 months)

still tiny
enjoy the rest when you can

Back after my work weekdn to find that DS slept fine for DH last night - late night but didn;t feed till 3:30 then asleep till 9am [shock and

He's struggling to get to sleep now though - DH is trying and I can hear the yells from here . Another tooth through and another one making a brave effort, plus he has a very snotty cold.

Having seen that he can go through with only one feed, have agreed with DH that he will deal with any wakings till about 2, then I take over - if I go to him he just wants to feed.

OK DH back and he's asleep - fingers crossed...

good luck

Hi my lovely siftw friends and welcome Mrs TH

We had a fabbo time at the wedding, but somebody got a little tipsy, dont know who that could have been
dd woke once for a feed then slept til 7am

EP the little tyke!!!!

sorry to those who've been having crappy nights.

amber yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

more tomorrow, sorry gotta dash xxxx

Amber for your sleep through.
Bags for your improvements
Meg, Mine changed naps all the time and really only settled into 2 substantial naps at about 7/8 months (amazing how quickly you forget!)I would say at that age they should still need another nap but they don't know what's good for them do they? You could just put him to bed early and see how it goes.

cupcake. Put in a call for popsycal, she has a toddler who is a nightmare sleeper and may be able to offer some advice. One of her threads is [[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=5&threadid=327520&stamp=070613095652 here

Effie, good plan, hope it works. We too have a plan after a particularly rotten night. Tonight we have put DD to sleep on the floor (!) During the day she sleeps on a travel cot matress on the floor in her room and seems to sleep quite well. She used to sleep on it in the living room but I've moved her upstairs. Anyway, plan is that if she wakes tonight I'll go in and settle her there, lay with her if necessary but the hope is that we'll break the cycle of her expecting to come into bed with me every time she wakes. I love co-sleeping but she doesn't understand why she can't go to bed with mummy if she wakes earlier than i want to go so we'll see if this helps. Not sure we can do it for long because I don't think it'll be long before shes crawling.

Tipsy Tibsy

MrsTH, how old is your LO? Our teething symtoms are irritability and crying, chewing, trying to bite me (!), slight raised temperature. I think they seem to suffer in different ways tho. And mine started at about 4 months but didn't get her first tooth until 6 months.

Hi MegBusset, my DS is 7.5 months old. I've been working through a book called 'The No-Cry Sleep Solution' (since sleep is the main issue here I'm sure many of you know that book!), which advocates taking very teeny, baby-sized steps to get you from where you are to where you want to be. It requires real dedication and I have the luxury of still being on maternity leave, so I can focus on getting his sleep right both day and night.

Following this method has taken AGES as you go at your baby's pace. At 5 months he went through a developmental change which turned his previously bearable sleeping patterns into the Nightmare on Elm Street. He's had 2 colds since then, which has interrupted the plan, but I'd say the first time he showed a consistent tendency to fall asleep without BFing was last week. Weaning has made a huge difference to this, as well.

By the way if anyone on this thread has an unweaned baby with sleeping problems, once he/ she hits 17lb (if still under 6 months) it's worth considering weaning them early. I didn't know this at the time (thanks oh-so-unhelpful HV), and my DS started waking lots due to hunger. Oh the benefits of hindsight.

Thanks for your support, Amberjee. I really hope all this hard work pays off and that he buys me some lovely diamond earrings when he grows up!

Effie - [sympathetic emoticon] why is it that they often behave themselves when we're not around? We've recently designated Saturday mornings as 'me time', when I go off to the gym to try and get back into a shape (hmmm, I wonder what that shape will now be?). The first time I went I was out for 2.5 hours. My DS had been napping badly all week - no more than 30 mins at a time. Guess what - he slept for Daddy for 2 solid hours, leaving my DH just half an hour of stress-free playtime! It's just not fair, is it?!