I’ve joked about this but it’s now actually breaking me

[fruityb]

My son is two years and two months. Since turning two he has been what I can only describe as a fucking nightmare at bedtime. Since he was 8 months old he’s gone to bed awake and slept all night without any problems. And would sleep anywhere - so sleepovers with or without us were fine.

Since he turned two he’s been horrendous. He was in a cot still and started waking in the night, which was unheard of. We made the switch to a bed and things got better for a time. This last week it’s been absolutely awful and my anxiety at bedtime is escalating. I’m actually sitting here crying while DH deals with him. In the day time DS is a normal toddler - he plays, he chats, he has a nap, he’s a little bugger at times but generally good company. When he goes to bed it changes. You put him in bed and he starts making noises that lead up to full on wailing. He goes “uh uh uh”
Louder and louder and as soon as you leave the room the shrieking begins. He comes out onto the landing and stands at his stair gate screaming blue murder like something awful has happened. Got him a night light and that helped for one night but we’re now back to this. I dread bedtime massively because this is driving me insane. He will not lay down, he gets back in when you go up only to get right back out again seconds later. We tried putting the stair gate on his bedroom door but he shook it and slammed his door shut which took his door off its hinges!!!

He is screaming like his world is ending. We’ve both taken it in turns to sit upstairs till he goes off but we can’t keep doing that - i was there for over an hour the other night and he didn’t talk to me or bother with me other than to start the uh uh noises if I tried to move.

I feel like my toddler is manipulating us and I know that’s not true - he’s still small I know but I just don’t know why his personality has done a 180! He’s also been really clingy and crying when being taken to CM yet I then have to fight to bring him home at night!! I cannot cope with the shrieking when he’s going to bed. When he’s asleep he doesn’t wake up till morning but it’s getting him to sleep that’s hard. He’s going to his aunties for the night on Friday and I’m seriously considering cancelling it as she has a 6 and 2 year old herself and I cant even think of him behaving this way somewhere else.

My husband is much calmer so he is dealing with it most of the time but this needs to stop. How the hell are we supposed to go anywhere or leave him anywhere when he acts like this?? Part of me wants to put him back in the cot so at least he can’t run out but then knowing him he’d just climb out now!!

We haven’t changed routine, his nap is only an hour which he still needs as he’s worn out by lunch, NOTHING has changed! Why is it like he’s broken in the last month! If you try and leave the room when he’s in bed he just starts wailing if he’s not ready for that. I feel like I’ve tried everything - rapid return, slowly moving myself away, shushing, being calm, winding down before bed... you even mention bed and he just grins and then makes it hard to take him up as he won’t walk but fights if you carry him.

Any advice would be appreciated!!

I just go to bed with the kids and get up at 4am to get stuff done.

Definitely not what's advised but I had twins and they used to fart around for 2 hours every night like this. It's soul destroying. I lie down with them and we all go out like lights.

@fruityb - keep complaining! You sound rung out. My son was a nightmare for so long with his sleep to the point that I punched a wall once when he wouldn't nap. (It was never aimed at him ever, just pure frustration that I felt I was failing as a parent).
I think you've got a husband problem!! You need to sit down with him and discuss the strategy. Him going upstairs with your child and then using his phone or laptop is NOT going to help! Everyone knows the effect that blue light has on sleep surely?
I'm sorry you're going through this. It's hard but it will pass doesn't make it any easier right now though!!

Bye

birdsofafeather
Bye

Ah, Mumsnet at its most supportive. 🤦‍♀️

Wrung out is about the right description. I am frazzled. I am trying but it’s just like banging my head against a wall. I have tried putting him back to bed over and over but my husband gets arsy at him crying and complaining so does it his way and it’s just confusing for everyone.

I need him to just let me do this and if he needs to go out then he can do that. He wasn’t happy about me leaving him for times when he was in a cot so I told him to go out then!

Ds is awesome when he’s awake - he’s fun and daft and everything great. This is just killing me - I’m actually scared of the day ahead as I’ve a full day of teaching and we have visitors in. I’m not right - I’m calling gp about depression anyway.

And yes I do have a husband problem. Don’t get me wrong he’s a brilliant dad and a brilliant husband but there are aspects that are straining me horribly right now.

I can’t be doing with just being told “drop the nap why won’t you listen” as I only have nap control two days a bloody week!! I’ll do my best but I’m limited!

My DD has been like this since she turned 2 (almost a month) and then the fireworks didn’t help as she was terrified of them.

I’ve found it makes absolutely no difference how long she naps. We definitely aren’t ready to cut those out yet, and she’s tired at bedtimes but just won’t fall asleep on her own.

She’s got a bit better, and now as long as i lie next to her holding her hand as she goes to sleep she’s ok, but I do resent losing the best part of my evenings, being really hungry by the time I can finally escape her room. Sometimes I think she’s asleep and I can creep away but I hear “mummy, hand!” so it starts again.

I think it’s separation anxiety combined with willfull toddlerness that’s struck. We can’t leave her to cry as it just doesn’t stop whereas she used to sometimes cry for a few mins when we put her down and then fall asleep.

I’m pregnant again and hoping this phase resolves by the spring...

@birds you are free to go away and not read this. I need a space to clear my head and this is all I have.

Then move him to a child care placement that won't let him nap if requested
I've asked my dd nursery to not let her nap from a similar age and they did it

Your being silly and darting round the issue

I wonder how long the CM is letting your DC sleep during the day!
Kids this age need to get out more and not sleep during the day if you want a 7pm bedtime to work.
Know your CM's routine with him. I have a hunch there's too much downtime and too much sleep happening during the day, which will leave you with a little boy who is not ready for bed at a reasonable hour.

@birdsofafeather - I really hope if you ever feel like this that someone isn't as much of a twat as you're being. Stfu or fuck off. Plain enough for you dear?

Also, my twins refused to nap from about 18 months. They still messed around like crazy every night. It's more likely separation anxiety than nap problems. In many cultures the idea of putting a young child in a room and shutting the door on them would seem barbaric. It's no wonder many kids get upset by this. Have you tried things like audio books or projection lights on the ceiling to distract him?

OP just wanted to add, sympathy hugs in abundance. I'm long past your stage, but oh my goodness, I feel your frazz! Really, there were so many times when I just had to leave the room and cry/rage into pillows. You sound exhausted and just stretched beyond capacity.
It will get better but this doesn't help you right now.
It's sooo tough. My youngest didn't sleep through the night until he was 3 and it nearly broke up my marriage and the rest. Exhaustion is soul destroying in a household and your feelings are valid.
It will pass. I promise! In the meantime, vent away!
Your CM really, really needs to work with you on this. The naps really need to be dropped completely, I reckon.

You sound at the end of your tether and I sympathise.

It sounds to me as if there is no consistency at all in how you and your husband deal with it, so I'm not surprised there has been no progress.

It's not just that the two of you have different approaches but it also seems that individually you don't have a consistent approach.

I'm not blaming you for this btw as it's so hard to deal with this kind of behaviour.

But I think it's the same as any sleep training, you need to agree on the approach and the rules and stick to them. Firstly you need to have it out with your husband. See if you can agree on something but if not see if he will agree to try it for a limited time eg a week and if no progress you agree to changing approach.

FWIW (but this is just one approach) my rule would be that he has to stay in his room at bedtime and all night - no going downstairs and no going into your bed in the night. If he needs reassurance you could sit there with him or sit out on the landing. If he's having really unsettled nights you could maybe put a mattress in his room and take turns to sleep in there with him if needed. Then hopefully his sleep should improve and you should be able to phase it out. But IMO the golden rule should be that he has to stay in his room and sleep in his cot, you can be there to reassure him if you want (or go in at intervals à la CC). If you sometimes give in and take him downstairs, take him into your bed or get into his bed, he will just keep screaming in the hope that this might be one of those times you give in.

If your husband really won't listen then you could get a sleep consultant, he might listen to someone else! Or just ask him what is plan is, my DH never had one so he had to go along with mine!!

PS I'm not convinced it's a nap issue and I think he will be even worse at bedtime if he's overtired.

Does it need to be a 7pm.bed? Mine have had a period where they do need naps but also go to bed a bit later, then when they drop the nap they can go a bit earlier. It's also much much easier to start a good routine if they're tired to begin with - and you won't necessarily lose out, if it's 8.15 with all the messing about, a planned 7.45 sleep would still get you more of your night back, plus your sanity!

We also found audio books helped at this age. My DSs would get the night time snuggles and lights out, then if they were calm and in their beds they'd get to play an audiobook. If an adult was in the room, or they were out of bed, the audiobook went off. Then we did sticker charts for staying in bed all night, and 5 stickers meant buying a new audiobook (you can do this via Amazon or get lots v cheaply on eBay second hand, some libraries also have them. I'd use my phone, with a timer or 15 minutes). My middle two still love audiobooks!

Oh OP, I really feel for you. Our toddler did exactly this shortly after he turned two and it was exhausting - sobbing, screaming, the works. I can empathize with the sounding like something dreadful was happening as we had the same.

For what it's worth, we didn't drop the nap (have a newborn; may actually die without it) but we did do the supernanny thing and it worked a treat. That being said, my husband is a sucker for a crying toddler and it took a while (and a number of serious chats) to get him on board, as he kept going in and confusing the hell out of the situation. In the end I think I broke down and explained how ridiculously exhausting I was finding the whole thing and he realized how much it was getting to me. We agreed that what we had been doing clearly wasn't working so it was time for a new tack.

I gave him earplugs, told him I was handling it and just needed a few nights to make it work (and if it didn't, we could try his way) and within a couple of nights we were set. Toddler still manipulates his Dad at bedtime but knows there's no nonsense with me now.

So hope things improve for you soon

She's been told this
Keeps making excuses she can't change it

I’m sorry but who the hell are you to say you’ve told me this - as if I’m a kid with a problem??? Go away if you don’t want to see this and stop talking at me and about me as if I’m fucking stupid.

I am frazzled, this is hard and we’re struggling. I am having it out with my husband later. I’ll do this alone if I have to - am just going to keep returning him to bed and see how it works. If it doesn’t well do it his way instead and I’ll go to bed lol.

He is out a lot with his Cm - she’s great and they go places and do things and he’s with other kids as well. I don’t think he’s sleeping For hours as she tells me when he has been. I’m happy with him there so uprooting him is not something I am going to do.

I just needed some sympathy and some supportive words - not being scolded.

You’re right we need to be more consistent but I’m just so tired I just keep thinking anything for a quiet life!! But it needs to stop - I know that. And he needs to stay in his own bed so that will change too.

Were you my school bully? You sure sound like one. Please leave my thread if you don’t have anything constructive to offer.

Oh OP, this sound awful.

I'm with NameChange30, you need consistency and simplicity so you and DH can stick to it and DS understands it.

No bringing him downstairs.
No phones or laptops within half an hour of bed, I can't sleep if I've used my phone for even a few minutes immediately before bed.
Super Nanny approach of being boring and calm but not engaging.

I think I would keep the nap, but aim for a 7.30 sleep time instead.

I remember when DD was this age that positive reinforcement counted for a lot eg "tonight you're going to be such a good boy at bedtime, we're going to have a lovely story and we're going to talk about all the lovely things you did today and then you're going to go to sleep. I know you can do it, you're such a great boy" etc.

We did half 7 bedtime on Wednesday and he was asleep in ten minutes all night as I stayed up there. Last night not so easy!

It’s just so hard when he wakes at 1am and you think what’s the quickest method!

One day I’ll laugh.

Absolutely it's hard. DD's sleep nearly killed me, and we didn't have the problem at the start of the night, we were really lucky in that she always went to bed without issues.

Do you think the rest is doable, the staying in his own room, and no sitting on the landing with a phone etc?

You can get those little night lights that plug into sockets, if you think the darkness is an issue. We coloured one in with a sharpie to make it less bright.

Have you got a gro-clock? That could help to back you up, "it's still blue, it's night time. Back to fucking sleep" etc etc.