Jo Frost’s “controlled timed crying”?

[TLH0307]

Please don’t judge...I just need at least 2 hours of sleep at night. I’m currently getting none with my 6.5 month old. That’s no exaggeration, she wakes as soon as I start to nod off, she’s been waking every 45 minutes now since she was 4 months old.

I hate the idea of leaving her to cry so I’m reluctant to do it, but the timed controlled crying technique means you only extend the period of crying by two minutes each time (if I understand it correctly? My brain isn’t functioning at present) and people seem to swear by it. Has anyone done it? Does it work? I can’t imagine leaving her to cry even for 2 minutes but we do so much activity-wise during the day that I really am desperate for just a few hours of sleep at least, I’m running on empty and not sure how much longer I can cope. She nods off as soon as she’s in my arms, so she is tired - just can’t stay settled in her cot.

I co-sleep from about 5am onward and she settles but only for 90 mins or so. I feel uncomfortable co-sleeping as I want her to be as safe as possible, so it’s not an option for me overnight.

Please don’t tell me it’s bad for them, be assured I will absolutely not leave her for any prolonged period, I’m about as anxious and overprotective as a first time Mum can be... 😣 I just want to know if anyone has done it and did it work?

Thank you, from one very tired, anxious, clueless mum (who already feels like she can’t do very much right, so please don’t tell me I’m awful for considering leaving her to cry for a bit). 😣

He slept through on the third night and forever after!!

Gosh. Never got a cold or had a nightmare or had any teeth come through? Odd.

I have far too small a baby to sleep train (eight weeks) and don't know what I'll choose to do, if anything, in the future. At the moment I can't imagine listening to him cry and not doing anything, but then I've only been sleep deprived for less than two months - let's see what another four does to me! But I do find all the predictions of dire consequences if a child is left to cry a bit overdramatic. We don't insist that the possibility of a child crying is eliminated at all costs in other scenarios. For instance, should I stop taking my baby in the car? He could start crying then in a scenario where I can't possibly pick him up - yes, obviously I talk to him, but from his perspective I'm denying him the comfort (and possibly food) he wants. But no one suggests never taking a baby in the car in case they cry and aren't comforted and it damages their brain forever. A friend of mine had to be admitted into hospital when her baby was little and the baby cried and cried and wouldn't settle for anyone else - now, obviously that is not ideal, but would anyone really tell my friend that, sadly, her baby will now be damaged for life after that one incident?

The anti-any-form-of-sleep-training-at-all always seems to be based on the idea that it's wrong because you're choosing to let them cry and in the other scenarios you're forced to. But that makes no logical sense - the baby doesn't know the difference. The only difference is a moral judgement about the parent not being sufficiently self-sacrificing.

Show me research that shows sleep training has zero negative effects for any child throughout their lifetime.

And this is a ridiculous demand. You can't ever prove a negative like that. You can never prove that anything has no negative effects, you just know that it has no known ones. But that's true of everything. By that logic you could never make any parenting decision (including cosleeping - which I do! - and any other form of attachment parenting) as you can never prove it has no possible negative effects at all.

The anti-any-form-of-sleep-training-at-all always seems to be based on the idea that it's wrong because you're choosing to let them cry and in the other scenarios you're forced to. But that makes no logical sense - the baby doesn't know the difference. The only difference is a moral judgement about the parent not being sufficiently self-sacrificing

There are those ones who it’s easy to be cynical about (seems like the martyrdom matters more than the baby) but then there’s the reallllllly terrifying ones who insist that yes if they are driving and the baby cries they will immediately find a place to pull over to comfort them, that no they will not even go for a quick wee without the baby because it might cry for 1 minute. That they immediately demand the return of their baby from doting grandparents if there is even the slightest whimper and the grandparent can’t immediately calm them. That they never put their baby down even if they need to cook or something because the baby might get upset. The amount of pressure they put on first time mothers who don’t yet realise from experience that it’s not a big deal if a baby cries for 5 minutes is horrific. When I used to go to baby groups the amount of dangerously exhausted women with far too high expectations of themselves was tragic. Seriously tragic. It’s not necessary.

@crazycatlady I totally agree with all your points and really like the chart you shared.Wasn't suprised to see Sarah ockwell Smith devised that! I don't really understand why whether people should leave a baby alone to cry is even being debated in this day and age!! :-/

I am wondering if any of these people would fancy being placed behind bars on their own, whilst watching the person they love most in the world walking away as they desperately cry for comfort? Then the person comes back a little while later, and just as they feel a glimmer of hope that they are going to be given the comfort they need to help them feel happy again,the person walks away.This happens again..and again.Eventually they have to give up the battle and resign to the fact that their needs arent as important as they thought...they dont matter as much as they should...They can't trust that person like they thought they could.
That is the reality of controlled crying.

Of course parents needs matter too,but having a baby is all about putting them first.It does take massive sacrifices but that's part and parcel of it, and there are massive rewards to balance that.

I wonder if OP you could restrict some of your daytime activities to allow you to nap when your baby does?

If you did that to an elderly person or partner you’d rightly be called abusive.

I hear the “would you leave an adult to cry” argument but honestly, at 3am, yes I would, if they’re not actively suicidal and we can pick up the topic again tomorrow then I’m gonna leave them to it and get some sleep I’m afraid.

The difference with a baby is that by the morning the baby will probably have forgotten they were ever upset and be cooing happily.

With both of mine I waited till they were eating a good amount in the day, at around your DD's age. I did the following: put down awake and let cry for one minute, went in and reassured without picking up. Left for two minutes, went in and reassured, left, back in after 3 minutes and so on...

Just increasing by a minute at a time was a much gentler way for me and I'm pretty sure I didn't have to leave them for any more than 10 minutes or so. I did this for every night waking. Their day naps took longer but I was happy to have cuddles in the day anyway!

Good luck OP. You need some sleep, don't be afraid to do what's best for ALL of you.

I am wondering if any of these people would fancy being placed behind bars on their own, whilst watching the person they love most in the world walking away as they desperately cry for comfort? Then the person comes back a little while later, and just as they feel a glimmer of hope that they are going to be given the comfort they need to help them feel happy again,the person walks away.This happens again..and again.Eventually they have to give up the battle and resign to the fact that their needs arent as important as they thought...they dont matter as much as they should...They can't trust that person like they thought they could.
That is the reality of controlled crying.

That is basically an emotionally manipulative story you've written in your head. It requires babies to have an understanding of adult motivation and concepts that they almost certainly don't (they don't fully grasp that other people can think differently to them until much older, which seems to me to be a fundamental requirement of being able to have the thought 'mummy doesn't care about me' or to have a concept of trust).

Again, I haven't ever let my baby cry and I don't want to - he's too little to sleep train and I hope his sleep is ok enough that I don't get that desperate. But I just think it's ridiculous to act like one parenting decision will somehow 'ruin' your baby - different cultures have parented hugely differently over time and we haven't yet found the 'best' way - there isn't one. For what it's worth, I think it's just as ridiculous when people say that cosleeping, always going to your baby when they cry or babywearing will make the baby clingy or spoil them - babies will have their own personalities, partially innate and shaped by the full range of experiences that they have in unpredictable ways. You can't talk to an adult and tell whether they were sleep trained because it just isn't that big a deal in the whole scheme of what goes to make up a person, with all their personality quirks and flaws.

When we did sleep training we went in straight away once DD started to cry. Not for fussing, but proper crying yes I went in straight away. I don't get all these posters saying that is damaging to the baby in any way.

It also needs pointing out that babies are perfectly capable of screaming their heads off when being held, sometimes for long periods of time. Sadly getting up and holding a baby isn't going to ensure it goes back to sleep. If crying was damaging for babies it seems unlikely they would do so much of it.

Small babies gain comfort from familiar care givers but I doubt they have a a sense of loving them most in the world as suggested by a previous poster, they are pretty much just all about themselves at that stage.

I would also add that my DD could cry in her sleep and even sometimes slept with her eyes partly open. She’s 32 now and still sleeps with slightly open eyes now and it freaks her DH out.

@mummyinlove1987 I can’t see how dropping our sensory sessions, baby massage, trips to the park, playgroups, swimming etc just so I can opt to sleep instead during the day would be beneficial to her development...i’d say that letting her carry on waking every 45 minutes through the night and not getting a decent stretch of sleep is detrimental to her development too 😕

Anyway my little one’s ears must have been burning because for the past 2 nights she’s slept solidly from 7:30 - 6:30 haha!! I think she’s broken?! I feel like a new woman.

P.s those two nights of sleep were done without any CC involved - she just slept!!

Not saying you should stop them altogether as of course they are beneficial, just saying don't put too much pressure on yourself to constantly feel you need to do things.We did/do all those things too, but sometimes missing the odd session here and there was necessary so I wasn't driving tired or going round like a zombie!
So pleased to hear she is sleeping better at the momeny though...i find it goes in ups and downs and the ups help get you through downs 😁

What did you do differently OP?

That’s brilliant news OP. Mine were both criers but as soon as they finally worked out how to sleep through, the lack of sleep soon became a distant memory.

I always come on these threads and expect to see a certain mumsnetter and now it seems there is another one that likes to shame mums who can't cope with waking every 40 minutes for a fucking year or more.
Well congrats to the crazies who can but my baby is much happier now he's sleeping and yes I used CC 😱😱😱😱😱
Enjoy your sleep OP and your baby 😴

@sylvesterthecat Annoyingly, I don’t remember what I might have done differently, I don’t recall doing anything! Normal service has resumed anyway, it lasted two nights, now she has been awake for the last two sodding hours and shows no sign of wanting to sleep 😂 x

@bananarama Oh don’t worry...I feel no shame, I know very well that cc won’t harm my baby! I personally don’t remember my mum leaving me to cry for a bit when I was a baby, and I turned out pretty normal so it can’t be as bad as people say 🤪 It’ll just harm me I think, I am too soft! 😩 Soft but desperate. Very desperate! X