Jo Frost’s “controlled timed crying”?

[TLH0307]

Please don’t judge...I just need at least 2 hours of sleep at night. I’m currently getting none with my 6.5 month old. That’s no exaggeration, she wakes as soon as I start to nod off, she’s been waking every 45 minutes now since she was 4 months old.

I hate the idea of leaving her to cry so I’m reluctant to do it, but the timed controlled crying technique means you only extend the period of crying by two minutes each time (if I understand it correctly? My brain isn’t functioning at present) and people seem to swear by it. Has anyone done it? Does it work? I can’t imagine leaving her to cry even for 2 minutes but we do so much activity-wise during the day that I really am desperate for just a few hours of sleep at least, I’m running on empty and not sure how much longer I can cope. She nods off as soon as she’s in my arms, so she is tired - just can’t stay settled in her cot.

I co-sleep from about 5am onward and she settles but only for 90 mins or so. I feel uncomfortable co-sleeping as I want her to be as safe as possible, so it’s not an option for me overnight.

Please don’t tell me it’s bad for them, be assured I will absolutely not leave her for any prolonged period, I’m about as anxious and overprotective as a first time Mum can be... 😣 I just want to know if anyone has done it and did it work?

Thank you, from one very tired, anxious, clueless mum (who already feels like she can’t do very much right, so please don’t tell me I’m awful for considering leaving her to cry for a bit). 😣

Well there has been no research results suggesting otherwise. Research is about disproving a hypothesis.

There’s plenty linking cortisol levels with impairment to brain development. And that baby might be quiet after a few nights but that their cortisol remains high.

It’s a jigsaw puzzle.

There are studies looking at older children who have previously been sleep trained and those that haven’t and there is no distinguishable difference between the two groups. Letting babies cry has been popular since at least the early 20th century and the increase in mental health diagnoses (who knows about the actual underlying precedence)is a far more recent phenomenon than that.

My babies self settled from a couple of months, I wouldn't have called it controlled crying, it was feeding, cuddling, putting down while baby was awake and being nearby while they went to sleep. They had dummies and musical mobiles. This was 30 years ago.

I think the pressure on new mothers these days is horrendous. I can't imagine how I would have felt if I had been told to breast feed on demand for months on end, and that it was perfectly ok to go without a decent night's sleep for over a year.

There are studies looking at older children who have previously been sleep trained and those that haven’t and there is no distinguishable difference between the two groups

Uh huh. And children’s brains go through significant change during puberty. Where are the studies that follow that?

I think the pressure on new mothers these days is horrendous. I can't imagine how I would have felt if I had been told to breast feed on demand for months on end, and that it was perfectly ok to go without a decent night's sleep for over a year.

It’s a Victorian hangover that it’s best for babies to be independent as soon as possible.

They’re actually meant to be inconvenient to their parents.

Omg imagine the inconvenience of having to breastfeed on demand and care for your child between the hours of 7pm and 7am 😂 I can’t believe the lack of understanding so many people have about BASIC infant needs. Nonsense.

I think people who say you should do anything for your child and feed whenever they wake up never had a baby who woke up every 40min. Try it. Set your alarm for months on end at 40min intervals.
I was a walking zombie and becoming severely depressed. The baby will be fine - obviously don't leave them to cry by themselves for half an hour!

@iseethelight on the contrary. Mine woke every hour for the first year of life. She then woke every 1-2 hours and now at 19 months old she has just started to sleep through every few nights. She was ready. So yeah I understand how hard the sleep deprivation is.

Were you back at work full time though from 5 months? I think not.

I don’t believe infants over 3months with no health problems need to wake up constantly through the night. I don’t think that’s a “need” at all. If it was women would have evolved in such a way that they don’t need a full night’s sleep. As it is we do. And having an exhausted mother is not good for a baby in evolutionary terms.

@DieAntword that is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read. Why do millions of babies all over the world wake frequently in the night then every day?! If it wasn’t for that, forums like this wouldn’t even exist.

I think crazycatlady is angling for a medal showing she is the best mum ever who made the most sacrifices for their DC

To OP, please don't be scared off. As said before, all research shows controlled crying does no harm. And you need sleep. You need to look after yourself too.

I think the main reason is they’re in the habit of being fed at those intervals. Doesn’t mean they “need” to be. My second child gained weight wonderfully on only day feeds at that age and slept. He’s nearly 8 months now, sleeps all night most nights, sometimes has a little whinge for less than 5 minutes in the wee hours but most nights not even that (until 5am -_-).

I’m fine without medals thanks @iseethelight. Kind of you to think I deserve one though and ALLLLL the research says that? Really? All of it?

A need for a night feed isn’t necessarily just about calories. They could be thirsty or just need the comfort. You really cannot rule these things out I’m afraid

OP I feel your pain...my LG has always been a bad sleeper too and like you I was a worried first time mum and very scared of co sleeping too and didn't dare consider it before 6 months.If you don't feel happy with it that is totally understandable, but how about considering a compromise we did after our LG hated the cot but it was getting very squashed and uncomfortable for us all in the bed.We took the side off her cot bed, and pushed the mattress up against ours (we use a rolled up mattress cover/blanket in the gap against the other cot side,but our LG is 17 months...you would probably want to ensure you used something breathable like maybe rolled up sheets or large muslins as your baby is still little) This has worked brilliantly and has meant that we all have space and she is safe in her own cot, but she is still close to us.
I am not by any means criticising you for considering controlled crying as I understand your desperation, but there is much evidence that being left to cry is damaging to infant's emotional brain development.
However that's not to say you should never feel you can allow your baby to be upset.Gentler sleep training is possible, yes baby will still cry, but the key difference is that you are there to comfort them whilst putting structure and boundaries in place that help you hopefully get a much better nights sleep too.Good luck! :)

We did her method at his stage. I was going back to work and dd woke constantly and was so upset. Worked in 3 nights and she was so happy when she was getting her sleep. First night grim, Third night took 2 minutes. Don’t give in as it’s so unfair on the baby who gets confused.

Research shows sustained neglect and non meeting of needs affects brain development. Not sleep training.
Co sleeping is great if it works. Dd was so disturbed by us on a day to day level. We slept together if she was ill or teething ( still do and she is 6!) but this method saved us all from a lot of heartbreak and frustration

I don’t think that’s a “need” at all. If it was women would have evolved in such a way that they don’t need a full night’s sleep. As it is we do.

Interesting point. We used to live in closer groups and thought nothing of wet nursing other women’s babies if necessary. You may also have heard women you know who have been through the menopause say that they don’t need as much sleep now. It’s because they watched over babies at night and provided the comfort whilst mum rested. And lastly there’s a growing body of evidence that it’s fairly recently that we started expecting to sleep in one block - we previously slept in 2 or more sessions with active time in between. Lots of people now try it and fond it suits them.

We might think we’ve evolved, but we’re biologically just cave folk with Wi-fi. ;)

Research shows sustained neglect and non meeting of needs affects brain development. Not sleep training.

Show me research that shows sleep training has zero negative effects for any child throughout their lifetime.

I don’t believe infants over 3months with no health problems need to wake up constantly through the night

“I don’t believe the earth is round.”

Doesn’t make it true.

Try a sleepyhead. They feel like they're still being held. Expensive but worth every penny. You'll need the bigger size now. A lot of the sleep positioners were deemed unsafe but this one has passed the tests and apparently still used in NICU etc.

raisedgood.com/cave-babies-cry-it-out-and-ruffling-feathers/

all research shows controlled crying does no harm.

There was a point in time where no research showed tobacco smoking to be harmful.

There was a point in time where diesel cars were believed to be cleaner than petrol ones.

In the 1950s lies were told that a low fat diet was healthy. It’s only in the last 10 years that we understand the impact that has had on human health.

The research info the effects of controlled crying/cry it out is at best limited and at worst flawed. Who knows what will become clear in years to come.

I've got a 3 month old and currently reading Pantley's "The no-cry sleep solution" (sorry, haven't read this whole thread so not sure if anyone else suggested it). Some interesting ideas in there.

Ds was in hospital on /off from a fortnight old til ten months. Told the Dr's receptionist I would be leaving ds in the buggy parking area unless she gave me an appointment!
Gp talked through sleep patterns and how to get ds to sleep,and stay asleep!!
Remember he had never slept alone /in the dark /been well - ever tbh!!
He slept through on the third night and forever after!!
Sheer bliss!!