Lots of CC threads at the moment, got me wondering

[Othersideofthechannel]

does no one just leave older babies/toddlers who are old enough to understand the words 'It's the middle of the night, it's time to sleep' to cry until they fall asleep when they don't require a feed (or change or dummy retrieval or other practical parental assistance) but just need to learn to self-soothe and go back to sleep by themselves.

It's very common here in France.

Yes, my experienced CM was a great help for differentiating two of DS's different cries that I hadn't managed to distinguish. (She had him part time from age 4 months).

my 4 year old sometimes wakes in the night upset and saying stay with me mummy

so I do

I could explain that it is the middel of the night, but she is 4 and crying

so I comfort her

A wise friend once told me to write off the first 5 years re sleep, as there is always one f**ker waking you up (she has 4)
, so I think well I signed up for this so deal with it

"my 4 year old sometimes wakes in the night upset and saying stay with me mummy

so I do

I could explain that it is the middel of the night, but she is 4 and crying

so I comfort her"

well yes my god it isn't rocket science is it OO?

Obv if they're ill you're not supposed to ignore them.
Touch wood our kids have never had earache or anything else without other symptoms. (Had our fair share of coughs, vomiting, reflux etc)
I think the idea is that if they get used to going back to sleep alone at an early age, then you know they must be ill if they cry in the night for comfort.

OO - I guess that's what I think too! In fairness mine are fab sleepers but regularly at least one is ill, and dd3 is just undpredictible and just doesn't sleep anywhere as much as she "should".

When dd4 was a baby they thought it was her disrupting us - oh no nearly always dd3 with no signs of improvement!

But changing you attitude at 9 months or around then is .

I didn't let my babies feed to sleep and I didn't cuddle them to sleep from a few days but it was a conscious decision which I think I handled very carefully - not by leaving them to cry - my 9 months any behaviour is deeply learned!

dd1 is a fab sleeper, always has been, give or take the odd illness etc

dd2 is a bad sleeper, always has been, give or take the rare night

I haven't done anything different, they just are different

(and also, whats not to like about a sleeping todder with squishy feet on your tummy?)

Actually, none of the people giving this advice said 9 months is significant. That's just the age I would call an older baby answering emkana's q.

sounds lovely but in reality I'd last 2 minutes before I was off to find some peace!!! Dh gets kicked for deep rythmic breathing long before it gets to snoring!

"if you expect them to learn themselves that nobody is going to comfort them in the night however distressed they become, and for whatever reason (how do you KNOW that a baby isn't hungry?), then IMO you are depriving that baby of something important that they need for their development."

Franny, I missed this post earlier. I think that's the idea, that if the baby is missing its parents then it needs to learn that they are not at beck and call at night time.

Most French babies are on formula after the first few months so it's easier to know or not whether it is drinking milk in the night, but that's another issue.

Anyway, I've got to go and get some sleep myself now but it seems that if there are people in the UK who practise this other school of childcare, they're not on Mumsnet or at least not brave enough to admit to it!

I am at their beck and call though, I am their mother

Like I said, I can tell when it is time wasting nonsense "my quilt is too soft" is one of dd1's classics , so it is an abrupt "it's bed time dd1 night night"

but crying and upset is different imo

DS said he couldn't sleep the other night because his toenails were too long!

I think this school of thought isn't relevant once they get to that level of communication. From what I understand, it's more about little ones who can only communicate by crying, and distinguishing the different cries.

oh yes, but babies comunicate by crying but how do you know what is the matter with them?

dd2 once whinged all day long and was a major pain. In our bed all night

next day got chicken pox

so if I had left her in the night, she was in pain and ill

who can tell that from a cry in a baby?

they need to invent a machine that translates...

Are you really at their beck and call all the time OO?

You see, now my children are older, 2.5 and 4, I am not at their beck and call when I am finishing my breakfast. They always finish before me. I won't interrupt my breakfast to read a story etc. They have to wait. Sometimes, DD will get upset but I think that it is a reasonable request.

So don't they need to learn at some point that you are not going to hold their hand so they can go back to sleep just because they are between two sleep cycles. Surely everyone would agree they need to learn by themselves at some point in their lives? But different schools of parenting have different opionions about when/how.

I am really am going to bed now. G'night!

no I am not at their beck and call for storytime or playing etc

(I am like you, I bellow HOT CUP OF TEA!! and they leave me alone)

but if they were upset, I am there

even in the night if I think they need it

"Franny, I missed this post earlier. I think that's the idea, that if the baby is missing its parents then it needs to learn that they are not at beck and call at night time. "

Why not? Do you magically stop being a mother when it gets dark? I really really don't understand this.

I would love to clock off, and not just at night

Did you not send your babies the memo? You know, the one when they turn 9 months?

"Due to circumstances beyond our control, we will no longer be available for back rubbing and hand holding between the hours of 20.00 and 7.00. Apologies for any incovenience caused. Love, Mummy and Daddy xx"

Oh I agree OO. I do occasionally hide for a few minutes.

I must have missed that memo. Is it perhaps not in my copy of Dr Sears?

nah sent mine at 3/4 days "bf is for providing milk only if you want to comfort suck continuew using your fingers, if you start nodding off when being cuddled 95% of the time you will be put in your cot/pram to finish off going to sleep, however if you cry I will come and comfort you"

Could quite happily clock of for a week or so and leave dh to it!

I didn't buy any books [blind leading the blind emoticon]

until dd1 was 3 months and I got A Certain One and told dh we were doing everything Wrong

he looked at his contented, plump, beautiful firstborn (who was Asleep) and told me precisely what he thought of that

"bf is for providing milk only"

Blimey I definitely forgot to send ds that one

thank god