I went to a baby group today...

[GMtoBe]

And I was the only person there who had a baby who is difficult to get to sleep for a nap and who is up 5-7 times a night. She's ebf and is 16 weeks old. Please tell me I'm not the only one!

They are lying. Ignore it now, or weaning, walking and potty training will be hell.

You are not the only one I have stopped going / telling people re my pfb he is a gorgeous little fella but very alert quite happy to disco nap for 20 mins then be wide awake! Never grouchy or screaming just wants to be up and nosing

I think some of it is just expectations? Sleeping 7-7 probably isn't realistic for most little babies but if someone asked me about my 3 month old who slept 11-7 I would say they slept all night because I didn't get up in the night.
Or a baby feeding/sleeping at the breast all night - I would describe them as a really good sleeper.
One of mine slept through 7-7 from 8 months, but of course sometimes still needed us if ill, teething, nightmares etc.

My 18 week old regularly wakes 3-4 times a night at the moment. He seems to be in a 4-3-2-1 patterns.

So asleep at 7
Awake 4 hrs later at 11
Awake 3 hrs later at 2
Awake 2 hrs later at 4
Awake 1 hr later at 5

Then between 5-7am, anything can happen.

He can settle for some naps/bedtimes. Sometimes he screams blue murder. It appears to depend on which direction the wind is blowing at the time. After 3 days of horrifically bad napping, he pulled a 2.5 he nap today. Go figure.

Also the technical definition of "sleeping through" is 5 hrs. So if their babies go to bed at 7pm and wake up from midnight and never go back to sleep again, they could still claim their babies are "sleeping through". So I suspect there's a bit of this going on.

They are being economical with the truth to avoid the "crap mum" tag. As everyone else has advised: ignore, ignore, ignore. Your baby will not be waking up at midnight when he is 18! (Well, if he is, it's someone else's problem).

There will always be something else to compare, from weaning to walking to school reports. Fuck it all and sleep when you can.

I may be guilty of being one of those mum’s who replies with a ‘yes, really well!!’ Big happy smile on my face when asked how my 4 month old is sleeping. It’s because I keep my expectations low, and for now, the 1-3 wake ups for feeds we have are absolutely fine for me, and I’m so petrifed of sleep regression coming along and killing it that I keep very positive and grateful in the hope I’ll be rewarded.
1-3 wake ups for another mum may be awful.
So maybe I’ve upset other mums at groups, but it’s only because I’m currently content and nervous about what lies ahead...

Yeah I'm going to opt for 'they're lying' too, especially if they're first time parents. With my first dc I got semi friendly with a woman from our NCT group who was ultra competitive about everything baby related. According to her, the baby slept through the night practically straight away and she would sleep from 6pm until 9am the next day, she napped well, the woman kept on top of the housework and cooking because her baby was so good blah blah blah. Everything with her was a competition of how our babies compared. It was exhausting. Then my dh bumped into her dh somewhere and they got chatting and it turned out that yes the baby slept a solid 5 hours at the start of the night but she woke every hour or so for the rest of the night. And nap times only happened because the woman drove around every afternoon with the baby asleep in the car seat and the house was only spotless and they ate well because the woman's mother came round each day to help out. I met this woman again recently (after phasing her out) and she and I had both just had our second child. She immediately started with the boasting about how well the new baby was at feeding and how much weight did my baby lose in the first few days coz her baby only lost a minuscule amount etc etc. It's exhausting.

During my dd's first year, I met lots of mums like this. It made me feel inadequate to start with but after a while you get wise to the BS.

OP, you're doing great, your baby is completely normal, you have nothing to worry about.

I found that these are the things you don't find out until you're in the trenches, nobody says 'by the way, don't believe anything anyone tells you at baby group, they're probably lying!'

I thought I was defective and it really exacerbated my PND. I spent the first 5.5 months of my babies life feeling like I was walking through treacle and everyone else was flying high.

Oh God, I remember this. Went to a baby group with a friend when DS was about four months old. I was about six weeks into him waking every 2 hours on a good night and every 45 minutes on a bad one. I looked like a zombie. You could spot all the mothers with sleepers - they had painted nails and swooshy hair (good for them) and lots of "helpful advice" such as "have you considered formula?" (less good for them.)

No shit I have - I've considered everything legal and then some, and have even tried it, along with everything else that came up when I Googled How The Fuck Do I Get My Child To Sleep? Disclaimer: I did not try brandy. For either of us.

Fortunately, for my own sanity, I did have a lovely group of friends who were all very supportive - some had non-sleepers, others had sleepers but were tactful enough to give the impression they'd got lucky rather than done anything particularly clever.

This too shall pass says the woman with a 2.5 year old who will be joining her in 2 hours time. In the meantime, I recommend you celebrate doing a fab job with and .

Those mums used to drive me nuts! Did they offer you sleeping tips too? Some kids (both of mine) are shit sleepers. They wake up lots and us mums get no sleep. You're not alone.

This is why I avoid groups! DD (9 mo) is a great sleeper, but was late with things like rolling etc. Comments like ‘oh, she’s still not rolling?!’ used to worry me and make me feel rubbish. Now I just ignore!!

they had painted nails and swooshy hair (good for them) and lots of "helpful advice" such as "have you considered formula?" (less good for them.)

Why is that ‘less good’ ? Can you only be truly sleep deprived if you ebf or are you ‘less good’ if you formula feed?

The real crux of the issue is that some parents equate baby behaviours such as: sleeping through, rolling over/crawling/walking, being breastfed exclusively, and eating solid foods as being signs that their child is of above average intelligence, and then by virtue of this, that they are amazing parents.
Anyone who feels the need to tell you what an amazing parent they are, either directly, or subtly with this competing over normal milestones, is likely hugely lacking in confidence.

FWIW my Ds is 2.3 , has never slept through, and yet he talks like a university professor, can recognise his name written down, and can count to ten, clearly a genius. It’s horses for courses- I’d probably trade all those things for a solid week of sleeping through!

Why is that ‘less good’ ? Can you only be truly sleep deprived if you ebf or are you ‘less good’ if you formula feed?

You've misinterpreted the post completely. Not what the poster is saying at all!

StorminaBCup: less good because I'd already tried it and it seemed fairly clear it was a sleep issue rather than a feeding issue. Sorry - I didn't intend to come across as judgy.

The mum I have in mind was ebf and her baby slept ten hours straight at that age so it kind of gave me the rage! (Pure green-eyed monster, I admit.) DS was mix fed from day 5 (we ended up in hospital due to 17% weight loss and clinical dehydration) so although he's been mostly breastfed, we were never averse to offering formula. I would have quite cheerfully given him gin if I thought it would have helped!

Don't worry OP. I am well past the baby stage now but remember being so upset after a baby group because every baby there seemed to be sleeping through where mine was up ever hour or so and I felt like the walking dead!

One Mum in particular stood out, she was ebf like me but her baby was "sleeping through the night". I needed to do controlled crying and I believe the quality of my milk might have been mentioned! I hope your baby group didn't have anyone like that in it.

Anyway a couple of months later I saw her in town and she starts gushing about how her baby is finally giving her a good night's sleep! I'm not usually confrontational but I did say that I thought her DD had always slept well. Turns out her definition of "sleeping through the night" was from about 2 until 5!

I never forgot that, it turned out that I could apply the lesson to loads of stuff from weaning to school reports. I have concluded that people aren't really lying as such they can just be incredibly good at kidding themselves.

At 4 months my baby slept like a dream...at 9 months he is up several times a night and in our bed most mornings!! Don’t worry OP, everyone is different!

Ps- although DD sleeps well, I certainly don’t have painted nails or swooshy hair. I look a right bloody state!!!!

This is exactly why I avoid baby groups right now. The subject should be banned at them 😂 there’s nothing worse than hearing how someone’s newborn sleeps all night when you were up approx 9 times the previous night and have been for the last god knows how many months.

How your baby sleeps is no reflection on your parenting or the stellar job you are doing. It’s a developmental thing for babies and you never know these mums might find them selves in a similar position in the not to near future!

Sipperskipper - I know exactly what you mean. I haven't washed my hair since Sunday morning (and I only managed that because I was at Mum's house). I did manage about 2 minutes in the shower this morning though so I feel quite smug now!😂

Haha I know. My legs look like I am wearing tights. It’s just hair.

My baby sleeps 8-8 with one wake up at 6am for food. She’s 18 weeks and ebf. I hate that the advice is that most people are lying if they say baby sleeps well - if my baby didn’t sleep well and I was knackered id be looking to vent and get support or tips. I would never crow about her sleep but if asked I’d tell you the truth: that I’m very fortunate and she’s 8am until 6am then a feed and a snooze. I’d also mention for balance though that she has the odd night where wakes up at 4 or thinks 5am is wake up time for the day and say she’s good at sleeping during the day but only if she’s on me (or in pram for a bit or possibly in car but not always). I think it’s down to luck not skill but I’m not lying . I’m sure it’ll all change as we go along and I’ll be sobbing into my coffee with knackeredness. My AN group is always sharing when we’ve had bad nights and offering sympathy - didn’t occur to me to think oh they must be shit!

Haven't washed my hair since Saturday. Probably won't wash it until this Saturday either the way this week is going !

Ah so I have, apologies WhereisBluerabbit! Can I blame sleep deprivation - my boys tag-teamed last night. I think I got an hour at 5am!

I can categorically state that Gin does indeed help, if you drink enough your other half may just hear them before you do .

They're lying. But if they're not, they're shit bags. Who goes to a baby group and crows about their baby sleeping well?! Shit bags.

Sleep karma will get them - either in the coming months through sleep regressions, or when they decide that since babies aren't actually all that hard work they'll have another one soon... and that one won't sleep