At breaking point with 5 year olds night time routine

[Superba21]

I'm desperately in need of some advice.
My 5 year old has become a nightmare at bedtime. If I put her to bed she insists that I sit on her bed until she falls asleep. If I don't she constantly calls out, gets up & starts to cry.
If my husband tries to put her to bed she screams the house down, it sounds like he is murdering her. She roars and cries, tonight she nearly threw up she was getting so worked up. She woke her little sister up deliberately because we told her we wouldn't be sitting with her until she went to sleep.
We are a breaking point, my husband & I have ended up arguing again about it, I'm too soft with her apparently & I think he shouts too much at her. Tonight he threatened to walk out, he can't handle it anymore. I actually thought it might be a good thing because I'm frightened he might really loose his temper with her some night.
We've tried talking to her about why she's screaming & why she wants us to sit with her but we just get no answer or she puts on a baby voice & says 'I just want my mum'.
I'm at my wits end, I really do think my husbands going to leave if it carries on. I really can't cope with it anymore, I try my best to be calm all the time but tonight even I lost it
On top of it tonight a neighbour popped over to collect something and asked if everything was ok because she could hear our daughter 'again' .
Please help

My heart goes out to you. Been having sleep issues with my 5 year old since she was 6 months. Basically she won't go to sleep unless I lie with her. My OH or older DD won't do. She will not sleep all night either. Often waking 3 or 4 times a night.
I've tried all sorts to get her to remain asleep. She screams, punches & kicks out.
We finally have an appointment with a DR to hopefully help, so hoping for some kind of sedation.
How we've managed to remain still married is a mystery to me. How my poor DD sat her GCSE on limited sleep I will never know.
Sorry I can't offer any advice, but please know you are not alone

Thank you cookie75 it's reassuring to know I'm not the only 1!
hope the Dr is able to help out, I think I might have to book an appointment for my DD too. Xx

What happens if you do just sit with her until she goes to sleep? Sounds like she just needs a bit more reassurance at bedtime?

Is there a particular reason why you can't be with her til she falls asleep? Maybe she does 'just' want her Mum

My 6 year old has only just started going to sleep nicely by herself. I used to sing / cuddle her for as long as she liked and didn't worry too much but our lives changed with the arrival of twins. To keep things vaguely normal for her I carried on cuddling her to sleep / usually I would fall asleep too and the twins became brill at bedtimes (Unfortunately that hasn't lasted). Her bedtime has got later over the hols sometimes it's been 9/10 but at least she is going off so I can bring the routine forward gradually now. I've had lots of challenges along the way and things that I've tried. We went through a phase of letting her sit up and watch tv. She did complain of nightmares during one spell , getting her to draw them helped because she was too scared to explain them . I think worrying about death can also become a preoccupation at this age. I also had a phase of her hitting me if I tried cuddling her to sleep but the she would get up and run around the house, I found tickling her instead helped settle the energy/ emotion. We also have a big scrapbook called her feelings book , whenever she gets a strong feeling eg upset ( usually coinciding with me saying it's bedtime ) she can draw a big cross face and then every night once she is in bed we sit and discuss and look through it together. I found a book by the Tavistock clinic - understanding 4-5 year olds quite interesting, it discusses their emerging awareness of different issues and the different ways they can be manifested. I hope it is just a phase for you all and you find a way of dealing with it that you are comfortable with.

It really sounds like a bit of an unnecessary battle if someone can just comfort her until she goes to sleep? Possibly x

I would try a reward jar. So I use this for my kids in the sense of 1 bit of pasta for every time they do things first time of asking, and 2 bits for doing something without being asked. When full they get a reward of their choice. Make the first fill and reward attainable. Never remove from the jar or threaten to.
You could use this for going to bed.
I think it's unreasonable to expect a 5 year old to not go to sleep by themselves on their own, but if that has not been the case you need to teach her.
Is there a toy she'd like you could carrot/stick via a reward jar and sleep?

You are going to sedate a 5 year old, because they need comfort to get to sleep?? Surely a doctor won't give meds for that cookie

Your husband is an arsenal OP tell him to get a grip. Pfft! Threatening to leave, because his 5 year old struggles to get to sleep, jesus.

I agree with others, just lie with her. How long does it take her to get to sleep, is it long?

I ricochet between letting my 6 year old sleep in with me/lying with her until she sleeps/bribing her with stuff she wants

My eldest used to settle listening to a story CD sometimes

They grow out of it eventually

I'm doing this with my 2.5 yr old and I totally get how difficult it is. I find the screaming just so stressful, I don't think anyone can understand how horribly it can affect siblings and the whole family really unlrss theu have it happening to them. His 7 yr old sister doesn't have me reading a story as in stuck in a room with him for sometimes up to 1.5 hrs, I work full time so get no time to myself and often have to miss out on things because he just won't be left with his dad. He screams for hours if not with me. The things we've found that did work with him and his sister who was the same till she was 4, were a bath every night, no screens or tv before bed, Epsom salts in bath, lavender, dimmed lighting and no going back downstairs after bath. All this makes him sleepier which then means i can try gradual withdrawal, we've had success but to be honest he's still so little I'm not having lots of success yet. But if he was still doing it at 5 I'd be losing it I think!

I still lie next to my 5 year old. Not a big deal, he will grow out of it at some point

I definitely don't agree with 'you have to lie with them' (at that age!)

I say goodnight, cuddles, kisses, chat about what we'll do in the morning, close the door... Whilst fielding a million questions'. But rarely do mine actually then go to sleep. They get up, play, go to each other's rooms, come down to see me etc. But I work in the evening (conference calls) so I've had to be firm about bed time, not getting out of bed/room etc. If I've very very firm with a reward for behaviour, they usually abide. Screaming the house down I'm not sure on. My daughter does this occasionally over things, but it's literally nipped in the bud in HER case if I think it's not justified or a put on, by talking it through.
My daughter will cry for attention purposes, my son does not seem to. I try to recognise which is distress and which is attention seeking and address accordingly.
Don't let it break your marriage, get some parenting help and agree on what you'll do to address the situation where you differ.

It is hard to have to wait with them. Our 2 year old was doing this for up to 2 hours. I dreaded bedtime. It was fine to put up with until baby came along and I couldn't do it anymore. We found having quiet reading time helped. She can't read (is nearly 4 now) but from around 2 she would sit and look though books with a lamp on whilst I got the baby down, after a good calming routine (of them both jumping on the bed...) She drifts off if she's tired enough. We sold it as a great privilege and bought the lamp especially.

Place marking as im too tired to read now as my five year old was awake until 10pm AGAIN and is asleep in my bed as he has been for three years

Meant to say as well getting cross obviously isn't helping. She might sense your DHs frustration and be scared and have a legitimate reason to prefer you.

The best way to get them to do anything, including sleep, is often to pretend you don't care if they do it. They can feel you wanting to get away and cook dinner / work / watch TV etc and seize on it.

Good luck.

I'm at a loss what to do
Our 6 year old daughter since school stopped will NOT give in and go to bed
She's up till midnight
I can't talk to her or reason with her she's 16 before her time
Never been a good sleeper

My son did that until he was 2 1/2. One night I couldn't stay with him because I had the sort of tummy upset that meant I had to stay in the bathroom for a while. Meantime, his daddy went in and I could hear him roar! He told him he was old enough to go to bed without his mother and that he had better do it pronto, because I wasn't going to come in there that night and if he fussed, Daddy would come back-and that he didn't want any more of that nonsense EVER. When I came out of the bathroom, his daddy said "Don't you dare go in that room. He'll go to sleep now!" And the next evening, DS kissed us goodnight and went to bed without a peep. And did so from then on. They really do treat parents differently, and listen to the fathers who roar!

For a six year old who won't go to bed, you need to let her know that bedtime is not for children, its for adults. She can stay up as long as she'd like, but in her room with the lights off and the door closed. You and her other parent need time to be grown-ups, so tell her bedtime is your quitting time, and you'll see her in the morning. And firmly shut the bedroom door.

OnlyAmy - yes the both your posts!

My kids only listen if I roar!
My kids will stay up and play in room, they are not ready For sleep until 9ish, unless they've literally been run ragged. They were very good at 2.5 and 4, but 3 and 5 are a different story 😱

@OnlyAmy I would have been frightened at 6 if my parents turned the light off and just shut me in a room for the night personally.

Kids that age can revert to wanting reassurance at night because there imagination is developing. They start to get frightened. I think the best way to deal with it is provide the reassurance and gently move towards her going down independently again. I've heard of people popping in and out very successfully saying they need to use the loo/get breakfast bowls ready etc...

Ht85 - not sure for onlyamy personally, but I think what I take from that is 'it's bed time' I say good night, kiss, cuddle, tuck in, turn on night light, answer a billion questions, BUT ultimately when I close that door it's bed time. I do not sit with my kids til they fall asleep, there is a routine. No fear.

Thank you everyone for your comments/advice.
I feel some of you are judging me for not wanting to sit with my daughter until she goes to sleep. So perhaps I should put it into context, I work full time. Get home at 18:00 spend time with my girls and start a bed time routine, so they go to bed at 19:15 & I read them 2 stories, then it's kiss & cuddle & sleep. When I sit with my DD I could be there until 10pm. When it's her dad that puts her to bed & the screaming starts then that's her little sister up to. I don't think I'm being selfish/a bad mum for wanting a bit of time in the evening to have some dinner/do housework!
My husband isn't just walking out because my DD is struggling to get to sleep, he's just at his wits end because he can't seem to do anything without her screaming the place down & wanting me. I'm sure any of us if we had that everyday would get very upset.
Thanks again to those of you who give helpful advice. Xx

How about putting her down a bit later so she has a different bedtime to her sister and some 1-1 time with you before bed?

Superba21 I hope you didn't find my comments judgmental. Sounds like it's really rough on you all. Just sounds like a battle, maybe she could just stay up a bit later with you? Perhaps not the best solution you're after though x

I didnt read it as judgement i think its just either you sit with her ( which i appreciate is a awful long time to sit ) or you deal with the screaming . Personally i couldnt deal with that level of upset and would sit with her but i know people who do just deal with the screaming eg leave husband to deal and try and break the habit. I cant really think of any other advise to give if you want to try and break the habit i guess you would have to gear yourself up for some horrific nights and not back down and hope the habit gets broken? I dont know how you would do this though as obviously she can get out of bed ect and may not stay in her room. What do you do now before bed , could you have lots of cuddles and stories, i know some people swear by audiobooks, my lb goes to sleep fine but we co sleep as he wakes up so bloody early and its a major work in progress getting him to sleep till decent hour. Weve been trying doing yoga childrens animal one cant say ive had much luck yet!! One thing i have found though and im not saying its right for you or anyone else but ive just sort of accepted it, its not for ever. It helps me feel less stressed about it and yes i go to bed earlier so i get enough sleep but i was working myself up about it and really in my case he wakes up and doesnt go back to sleep but cant help that. Sometimes for whatever reason we cant sleep. Other thing ive heard is no screens or tv before bed. We try and do bath them upstairs for for wind down time. Do you think your daughter is getting stressed/ wound up as she knows they will be a battle?